The Problem with Endgame Collapse
So I just played a game where I was the last survivor and the killer knew where the hatch was. Before the last guy was fully sacrificed he walked over to it and immediately closed it which gave me no chance to jump in. This isn't the problem though. The problem is that both doors were on the same wall so he could watch both doors at the same time. As a result, it was impossible to open either door without being spotted and all I could do was run around until the two minute timer was up and I was sacrificed. The doors need to be readjusted so they can't spawn on the same wall and make it possible for the killer to watch both doors at once and making it impossible for survivors to escape. The only other option would be to get rid of the timer and I actually don't mind the timer. I would at least like to have a chance during end game collapse though.
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I agree completely with this. It's extremely unfair for survivors.
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I believe they said they are already looking into door spawns and making it more fair. Though, if you got to the Endgame, you shouldn't be favored to win, it should be stacked against you.
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No, if you can make it to endgame by yourself then the odds shouldn't be stacked against you because chances are your team were terrible and it led to you being alone. Even so, the killer should not have doors be able to spawn on the same wall in endgame collapse. They already have enough power with the timer and the ability to close hatch. But let's say you made it to endgame and your team wasn't garbage, should the killer be handed a free four man because of door spawns? That doesn't seem right.
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Exactly! I'm fine with the timer because it pressures them to leave and the killer being able to close the hatch because it counters hatch standoffs. Endgame collapse as a whole is decent (minus the no gen requirement for hatch) but the doors make it completely unfair for one side
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@Crazewtboy I mean if he was able to kill 3 of the survivors before the endgame against a competent team then getting the 4th one wasn't free
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It still is to an extent because you haven't actually caught the last survivor so therefore it is still not your kill. The doors being on the same wall lead to no counter play and the kill being served to you on a silver platter as you are bound to see them opening the door
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Door spawns are in issue for both sides on various maps, they know this and are looking into it supposedly. The whoever finds the hatch first is absolutely fair game. Survivors are not used to this sort of pressure so it feels strong and unfair, but it also feels unfair as killer when the doors spawn on the opposite sides of map and you're not a high mobility killer.
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I never said that there was a problem with killer being able to close hatch. It might feel unfair for the killer, but there should be some counter play. You take a chance or pick which one you would rather watch, hatch or doors. There is no way that door spawns will be completely balanced for both sides.
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I've got to where I don't even try to escape if the doors are on the same side. I hide so the killer can't SEE his kill and try to get points on the map through totems, etc. If my team are potatoes I'm not giving him the satisfaction of slugging me and waiting for the EGC to take me. It's not fun or exciting and at least if I hide from him and do totems, etc, I can actually do something besides crawl around. However I have had games where the killer literally stands on the hatch waiting to close it in my face. This caused me to have to do a gen(I had to do 2 actually, but what I did was 99%ed both, then was gonna make my way for the door), but the moment I did one gen, he immediately closed the hatch and came for the doors, which were close together. All maps need to be the same size with similar layouts(maybe not exactly the same layouts, as they still need to be functionally different maps, but the important parts like doors, etc need to be consistent for there to be balance).
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So you letting your potatoes die to get the hatch was work in comparison? Hypocrite
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I agree, when I play killer and this happens I give the survivor the escape I Dont like having a free kill
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Doors fixed when totem placement is fixed, sound fair?
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git gud
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I never said I let my team die. Where did you get that from? The killer had just killed three of them even after I did everything I could to save them.
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Totems aren't that bad anymore, but I do agree that some of them should be moved so they aren't sitting right out in the open.
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You forget the survivors are a team. If you are the last man you have failed. That hatch is your second chance to leave before you are killed.
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So if you get terrible teammates who die without doing anything despite your best efforts to save them, you have failed? Why should you be punished for other people's mistakes?
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Aren't spawns theireself a problem?
Sometimes you have gates you can see both.. Sometimes they are so far away, that u can say it's a 50/50 for both.
You also got this with totems, pallets, Infinities and so on.
I think many of this spawning things should be reworked...
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Because on surv side it's a team game and if your team sucks you shouldn't win. This is the thing with teams. Stand together fall together. You got this in every team game I know... Unless mm is bad and the skill difference between the parties is so big, that noobs can get carried.
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Yes that's the thing with teams....
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Sometimes the doors spawn too close from each other, sometimes they spawn too far from each other. Do you want to have it easy every single time little survivor? Quit your crying and complete all the generators with some friends still alive next time. If not, bring a key.
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@MissKitty95 I like to kill it anyway or follow it around until the Entity claims it
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What the man said is borderline true. Failed to finish all 5 gens with the squad, so you get hatch, failed to get hatch get a second chance at a door. Bad door spawns well that sucks. Each becomes progressively harder as it should be. Solo or Grouped up the team which includes all Survivors has failed. I do agree that door spawns need to be fixed though.
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See, funny thing is buddy, not everyone has people to play with 24/7. Funny how you can't make an argument without resorting to calling people "crying survivors". You clearly don't care, due to you being a killer main, but it is a balancing issue, and as someone who plays both sides, it needs to be BALANCED. Not unfair for either side.
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Little tip bud, its best to ignore anyone who uses the phrase "Crying survivors" . You won't get a reasonable conversation out of them and they pretty much just want to poke a reaction. It's almost adorable.
Some opposing opinions here have merit, some people just like getting their jollies off by pretending their edgy. Like I said. Adorable.
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Apparently only half my post went through.
On the subject of the door placements, RNG has been a b**ch for a long time and both sides feel it. For the survivors its crappy door and sometimes gen placements. The killers get god awful totem spawns. Its a bit of a mess.
It can definitely feel unfair when you last long enough to maybe escape and you get shafted by door placements, I've been there, but all we can do is keep giving feedback and hope something is done about the state of things like doors and totems.
Until then, the only thing you can do is take it on the chin and move on. If i know I'm f*ed, i just noise spam and spin under a hook to get it over with. Yeah i get the odd few that will slug me but hey, if they wanna watch my corpse while i go make some tea....whatever floats their boat.
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@Crazewtboy I should have been more specific: I meant "teammates" not "friends".
And if 4 survivors could not complete 5 measly generators and you are the last one against the killer (try to remember the killer is supposed to be the power role) then it should be hard to be able to escape at this point. If you get to escape it feels great! But you have to be very good and have a lot of luck.
You can try using the perk "Wake up". What's the matter? Survivors aren't using it anymore since it is not bugged now???
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The other problem with Endgame Collapse is as soon as it is down to two survivors most players stop working on generators and simply look for the hatch. If you get hooked when two players are left you are left to die on hook and the other player just jumps out the hatch. This game is never four on one; survivors are not on a team working together they are out for themselves so it is a game of one on one on one on one on one. Something needs done to balance the game for survivors who actually keep doing generators when only two players are left, but as usual the game is designed to make it increasingly difficult for the survivors and a bigger cakewalk for killers.
The open gate time should also be adjusted. If you make it to endgame and don't get the hatch you are screwed. A simple solution would be there is no power up time for the gate opening. This would make the chances of escape 50:50. Both the survivor and killer would choose one of the two gates to run to. If they chose the same gate the killer is going to get the win, If they choose opposite gates the survivor gets the win. Right now the Killer has plenty of time to check both gates.
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implying totem spawns are literally the end of the game. lmao.
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I never used Wake Up at all. Even during the time it was bugged. Please don't make generalizations about all the survivors in the community when only some exploit it. I refuse to use it even without the glitch because I find it too situational.
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Yeah, that probably would be best. I still try to stay away from people who just want reactions but I felt the need to say something this time.
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Agreed! Something should definitely be done to encourage more teamwork on the survivor side instead of people just fighting over the hatch. As far as no power up time, that seems a bit survivor sided. The only reason being is because (assuming you meant the gates weren't open and you just pull the switch and it immediately opens) if a survivor is healthy, they will open the gate right in front of the killer due to it being instant, and then can either take the hit if they didn't while opening the door, or use dead hard if they were hit opening the door. It would give the killer limited counter play. I think another idea could be where the time for opening the door is halved when one survivor is left during endgame collapse. This would still encourage some stealth because you would have to wait until the killer leaves that door before opening it, but when he does leave, you have more than enough time to get the door open. This would probably only be a temporary solution and would have to be looked into further.
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I think the reason he says that is because the door spawns could screw over a survivor from escaping, but a totem spawn could screw over a killer from killing survivors. Both could have terrible spawn that could ultimately lead to one side failing their objective. The problem is, totems have been moved to better areas recently and only a couple could be readjusted so they aren't int he middle of nowhere. On top of this, it is pretty much impossible to give better totem spots then what we have (with the exception of the few out in the open) because in order to hide them, they will always have to spawn near some sort of structure whether it be the main building, a loop, a t-wall or something else. Survivors know this and they always check around the structures because of this. The best totem placements I find to be are in the corn on Rotten Fields because they aren't near any structures, so the area of that totem isn't super obvious. On top of that, there is a lot of corn so the spawn is random and the totem could be pretty much anywhere within the cornfield.
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Might as well remove the killer's ability to close the hatch, because if the doors always spawn too far apart then the killer can't win unless he's lucky enough to spot you AFTER closing the hatch.
Way I see it, you've got 3 ways of escaping.
- Run for the hatch
- Bait the killer to search for the hatch while you camp a gate (Then it's 50/50 which one he chooses since you'll open the other before he arrives)
- If all generators are already done, ignore the hatch and go for one of the doors
I think it's healthy to allow a killer to 4 man a team every now and again, just because you're last man standing doesn't mean your victory should be spoonfed to you as a "thanks for trying".
The game is all about teamwork and mind-gaming each other, the 3 methods i've provided are forms of mind-games.
Just my opinion, but the pleasure of these sorts of discussions is that you will always find someone who thinks you are wrong and your logic is riddled with flaws.
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Not saying your logic is riddled with flaws, and I must just want my victory spoonfed to me, but i would like to see (and I'm sure it's been said before) a chance for survivors to be able to reopen the hatch with a series of skill checks.
Also, throwing it out there that a "last man standing" BP bonus should be added
#greedy survivor
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@Crazewtboy If you refuse to bring "Wake up" or a key but still demand to easily escape as the last survivor, then there is no more to talk about ;-)
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I think that since end game was introduced i have seen 2 people make it out through the gates. They seem to often spawn very close to one another, i've even seen the hatch spawn very close to one of the gates making it nearly impossible to even use a key. Mostly what i see is the last two survivors are slugged and that is game.
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The Killers have it so easy anyway! They see the exit gate aura in perpetuity from anywhere on the map, they can see how much you've invested in exit gate progress and in many cases they can watch both doors concurrently and in every case they don't even have to get very close. What about only temporarily displaying the aura? Make the killer work a little bit. And adding some obstacles so the killer has to physically get close to the exit gate rather than look at it from 50 m. Or just get rid of the progress indication?
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How about getting gut and walking out the dooes after fixing generators instead complaining that getting out on your third chance is too jard.
Unlike with survivors, when killers use the hatch, survivors get another chance.
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@Crazewtboy Although, I agree doors should spawn a normalized distance apart that makes it fair for both killer and survivor. As far as having 'no chance' there are always these strange objects in the game.
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