The Idea of built in "Counterplay" is crippling new killers.

@Blueberry Loops are not infinite, otherwise the game would be broken: an extra hit means an extra loop, and precious time. If you really believe having one health state more or less it's irrelevant, why don't all people run No Mither? Why do all killers hate Mettle of Man? I'm in red ranks, even without Adrenaline and META builds. Many playstyles can lead to high ranks.

Well good news is GF should get some work into him hopefully a LOT of work into him because even the most biased killers and survivors agree he needs a lot of work.

That and/or a timer that if you stay in sickness for a LONG time, that you get downed. Because Survivors should not ignore being sick and the cleansing mechanic for half or an entire match.

When I play Survivor and get matched against the Plague it's pretty much a guaranteed escape as long as teammates don't potato. I once looped a Plague for about 3 Gens and only gave up because I got bored so I could do stuff other than looping and not once was her puke an issue. Also what's up with her Mori animation, feels ungodly long VS other Killers xD

Theres alot of killers that needs some buffs i do agree that some of them theyre just m1 killer but i believe that devs right now they are going to the right track for the new things that are coming

1. Map rework: less safe pallets but also there will be unsafe pallets so killers will enjoy and survivor will require skill on looping

2.freddy rework im just shock that they did a good job on freddy most ppl dont like him cuz he dosent have aura reading but for me its ok he can tp gen to gen he can put fake pallets and put traps but also he dosent have any tr

3.ghostface now in the last stream they said that they are doing something to make ghostface valid now i dont know but i hope hes good that you can play against hight ranks

Now those are great some perks also was buffed and we will see it soon so they need to think of buffing some killers example plague everyone agrees that shes just an m1 killer, clown hes a good at making the survivors go slow but thats it Lf now they said that are going to buff him a similar way of billy so that you cannot hold anymore the m2 for me thats great

"You assume being Broken all the trial it's the best way to face the Plague, but you have not given any evidence: it's just your opinion. An opinion, not the truth."

There is no proof anyone could give. It's also not "my" opinion. It's all other red ranks except for you. The community of high ranks disagree with you and that's as close as you're going to get to proof.

"I think the opposite: an extra health state is almost always useful, because you don't emit grunts of pain, because you don't risk to be seen by the puking-related aura reading add-on, because you remove the penalty of Thanatophobia, because you can keep the killer for an extra loop, while your mates do gens"

You are misunderstanding. No one is saying an extra health state isn't useful. We are saying that it isn't enough to change the outcome of the game against Plague in "most" cases. Those are not the same things.

"The Plague is not such an exceptional case: you can stay Broken, but don't pretend it's the only way to win against her."

Once again you are conflating 2 different things. We are NOT saying it's the only way to win against her. We are saying it's the smartest and most efficient way to win. Those are NOT the same things. It's also not "pretending", it's you not reading carefully at the specific words that I wrote and interpreting it incorrectly.

"Who are you to speak on behalf of the whole community?"

I'm not speaking for the whole community. It was the community that figured this out, not me.

"I survive against the Plague, and I'm not alone."

No one has said you don't, you're just doing it the least efficient way and the way that screws over the rest of your team.

"and I'm not alone"

You're not alone, you're joined by the other potatoes as well.

"You have your play style, I have mine. Accept it. You are not entitled to give lessons to anybody nor to judge other players' strategies."

I never said you didn't and I never didn't "accept it". All I told you was that you're doing it the least logical way, not that you couldn't do it. This is you once again not properly reading what was written and interpreting it your own way. I never gave lessons, those aren't free. You're the one that came in here and started disagreeing with the community and trying to give "lessons".

Hopefully after you've played the game more you'll realize how mistaken you were here or at least read people's words more carefully next time and not allow yourself to be influenced so easily by your preconceived notions.

100% spot on

@Blueberry "I have respect for people who earn respect. Respect isn't something to be given freely." you wrote... Mistaken! Respect is due to every human being, as such. Instead, esteem, affection and friendship must be earned. If everyone could decide to whom to show respect, according to their own arbitrary concept of who "deserves" respect, hostility would spread with serious prejudice for civilization: we have small examples in this forum, where fanatics of both factions fight in an endless toxic war, sometimes insulting in awful manners the developers themselves (some threads about Ghost Face are a very good example of this).

"I just don't think throwing your teammates under the bus by using fountains and then hiding in corners while they suffer the consequences is any evidence of higher "skill"." Which corners are you talking about? When it is unwise to repair the gens or save someone from the hook, I look for totems to cleanse or allies to help; otherwise, I search in the chests: there is not a single moment in which I stand and contemplate the view in a corner. Like me, they too can hide, devoting themselves to secondary objectives. If the killer uses Corrupt Intervention, the survivors simply hide until the Entity frees the gens: not surprisingly, it's a weak perk. They can do the same, waiting for the Corrupt Purge to run out, or make sure to work at the most distant gens. It's not difficult... you said it yourself that "You could run zero perks on survivor and still dominate in red ranks quite easily as survivor. The skill floor is quite low.".

It makes no sense to continue this ideological diatribe: our respective positions are now clear to the community. Bye bye.

If you guys complaining about the plague are all red rank, remember, not everyone IS in red rank and don't play your way.

I play Plague a lot; she isn't my top killer but she is near there. I hover around rank 11; best I've ever got was rank 6, but haven't been able to get there since the emblem rework for killer, best I've gotten now is rank 10.

When I play plague, I almost always run Thanatophobia. When I run into survivors that don't cleanse, I get that 4 man slowdown of the game. And once they are all broken, they are one hit wonders for me. Sure, they can try to avoid me by looping, but survivors aren't all expert at running the killer ragged, some can do it and some can't.

And then some of them WILL cleanse.

So, this whole "plague is bad because no one cleanses" thing isn't always accurate, and if its all about red ranks, well, not everyone PLAYS at red ranks; you have to consider the viability of a killer across the entire spectrum of ranks, not just at the top tier.

And I've NEVER had a game where someone hasn't cleansed. But even then I've not always needed to go for the corrupt plague because just having them broken was good enough in a lot of cases.

No, you don't, you balance around the entire spectrum of the game. Because not everyone will ever get to red rank. Some people are great and others are terrible but still want to play.

So if you balance around the top ranks only, you are screwing over those who will never get to those ranks, and thats bad for business. In the end, video games are created by companies that are businesses, and want to make money, and, ergo, want to keep their entire player base, not just their top ranked ones.

So, you balance the game in such a way that you keep everyone as happy as you can; otherwise you risk losing a segment of your player base, and that's just bad for business.

And as a side note, want to guess what segment of the population is red rank? I don't have the numbers, but I'll bed the mid and low ranked players easily outnumber the high ranked ones; after all, its a constant complaint how long the wait times are at red rank. And you want Behaviour to alienated a significant population level? Not a clever way of doing business.

Quit with the histrionics. You want to disagree, fine, but veiled insults gets you nowhere.

Yes, balancing over the entire section is a good idea, because in the end the MINORITY of high rank players aren't the ones who make the company money, except in one instance I'll explain below.

I've been playing at rank 10-12 for some time now, and plague works just fine for me. She works fine at lower ranks as well. You're comments about high tier balance is good for everyone is thus just not true: if a good number of people have success with her, it doesn't matter if a minority don't.

Your elitism is rather insulting. And any business, in the end, has to appeal to the majority to stay in business.

Now, the one exception I referred to earlier is about influencers who are really good at the game. They create videos that talk about how bad something is, and their viewers might well buy into it, thus shifting the view of the majority.

So with that in mind, when I play plague I usually get 3k; if they buffed her I'd start demolishing my opponents.

And she isn't my best. Trapper and spirit are my top two. I'd probably be higher rank if I stuck to those two killers, but I like variety.

Lower ranked people's opinions matter too, and this entire sense of elite entitlement where only high ranked people's opinions matter is just that, elitism.

Organically developed counterplay is completely fine. Enforced counterplay through design that requires no thought or innovation is bad. That's just me, though.

Yeah, this is what I always thought was meant by "Power Role." If the Survivors initiate every action and have immense influence over what the Killer can and cannot do, THEY would be the "Power Role."