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Billy vs Spirit. Who's better?
I would like to hear what people will say and why they pick who they pick.
Who do you think and why?
(Edit to explain my reasoning)
I would say that I can see an arguement for both but I'm edging more towards Billy.
Mainly because he punishes the survivor harder and his punishments arent as severe as spirit.
He has the normal killer stats.
115% speed
32m terror radius
But his power allows him to have more map pressure than the spirit and he can use it continuously instead of having to wait for a cooldown. He doesnt have a time limit for how long he can usethe chainsaw. And he can insta down.
However he does suffer harder than spirit while getting looped but he isnt hopeless. He has a few tricks
Curves
When he curves he has a chance of instant downing the survivor depending on their position and can be rewarding when done right.
Chainsaw flickering ( idk what people call it these days)
He can rev up his chainsaw for a split second and trick the survivor to thinking hes going to attempt to chainsaw the pallet when he can instead put it straight back down and get a free hit if the survivor falls for it.
He can also force the survivor to make a choice depending on the loop they're in. He can rev his chainsaw and force the survivor to make 2 decisions, either stay at the pallet or run to another loop
If they choose to stay he can chainsaw the pallet and attempt to down the survivor. Or if the survivor runs away he can chainsaw towards the survivor.
His weaknesses are strong loops and windows that prevent him from doing tricks.
And a team that is very good and knows how to counter killers
Spirit has a great power that allows her to mindgame her opponents. That's great. But she can also use it for mobility.
The main problem is when she fails she gets punished heavily for it. She has a 110% movement speed and when she fails to mindgame her chase she has to wait for the cooldown of her power for an x amount of time. During that time she has to find the survivor or leave the chase. Which both makes her waste time. If she finds the survivor she has to catch up to it with her 110% speed. Where I see her shining better than Billy is through her addons.
Her prayer beads (if that's what it's called i kinda forgot) allows her to completely destroy a team if she plays well.
That being said let's have a civil discussion and nothing heated. Again I see an arguement for both and I switch time to time from who's stronger
EDIT: This was an old post and my opinions have changed overtime. Idk how this got back up but whatever. Spirit is better than billy esp now that hes gotten nerfed but i wont go into details not rlly feeling it atm
Comments
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So you are asking for a reason, but dont give one yourself?
Spirit is better. Billy gets looped, Spirit not. Easy as that.
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Spirit
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spirit because of mind games. spirit so far is the only killer ive seen stand still and have a survivor run towards them in a loop. its amazing and fun to watch, and more importantly effective.
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I agree that she's insanely fun to watch and effective
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I have a different opinion than most people here. If we exclude prayer beads bracelet from the discussion since it is one of the most broken add-ons in the game, and if we assume the player is really really good:
Hillbilly vs spirit: naked; without perks and add-ons. Spirit wins.
Hillbilly vs spirit: with perks and addons. Hillbilly wins with a small margin.
A lot of people say billy can be looped. A very good billy who can reliably curve/drift around loops with spirit furry, enduring, bamboozle and engravings add-ons (which is a very common build) is not loopable. The only way to protect yourself from being chainsawed is by dropping pallets like a potato. Billy can force early pallet drops, create dead zones very quickly. With his instadawn, there is no room for mistakes.
I played against very good billies myself and watched streamers (very good loopers) go down to good billies in seconds.
This is just my opinion which is not set in stone.
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Spirit is better since it's harder to mindgame her because she barely gives information. Even Insta saw Billy can get looped even though it's more difficult compared to his other add-ons
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Really? They shine when she phase walks? I didn't even know that lol
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Agreed
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I'll explain while I edit
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Thanks! I'll keep that in mind
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Spirit. Similar map pressure plus the extra chasing ability akin to dare-I-say Nurse.
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I main Spirit and I honestly think Billy is mildly stronger.
He is a 115 killer. He has faster movement speed with his power. He has a one shot built in. He is way easier to learn than Spirit. And when you consider perks/add-ons I think Billy gets more benefit because of Spirit Fury/Enduring and insta-saw or engravings. The only exception is Prayer Bead Bracelet, which is definitely more powerful than anything Billy has, but that's one specific add-on that is honestly broken and should be nerfed anyway.
Spirit is a 110 killer. Her power has a cool down period. She requires more skill to use against better survivors. And her power is HARD countered by Iron Will, Spine Chill, Lightweight/DWM/Poised, and Q&Q. She is a mind skill killer. That means if you don't have good mind games, you won't really succeed with her. Billy is a technical skill killer. You don't really have to think with him, just don't make dumb mistakes and you can just kind of play on autopilot.
Basically, Spirit can potentially be more powerful than Billy, but it's way way easier to reach Billy's max potential than Spirit's. Billy can also generate pressure much faster than Spirit purely because of his one shot. All he needs is 1 chainsaw hit at the right time to swing the game.
The reason I think more people rank Spirit higher than Billy is because she is harder to learn the counter plays. For Billy it's pretty straightforward... don't get chainsawed. That's such a simple thing you can do a lot of things to counter it. But for Spirit it's way more complex, and it really comes down to the behavior of the Spirit. Does she do the stand still mind game a lot? Does she follow directly or try to cut you off? Does she break chases often to go for someone else when phase walking? Does she break every pallet, none, or just the important ones? There's a lot more to consider and to be entirely honest... most survivors are not that good at mind games. They might think they are, but when you can make choices based on the killer's red stain/character model/etc it's not really a mind game, more of an optimized reaction. Spirit requires a level of prediction and unpredictability that most survivors just lack. I can't tell you how often I just catch people running loops in the most predictable ways, or how they always fail to predict anything I'm doing even when it's a bit obvious. But you get that rare survivor that knows how to do this stuff well, and give them Iron Will or any of those perks I mention above, and it will be VERY difficult to catch them as Spirit. It's an entirely different beast.
You could argue that because Billy is so straightforward he is really easy to play around, which is true to a degree, but the catch is that if you mess up against Billy you eat a chainsaw. If you mess up against Spirit you get hit. It's just harder to not mess up against Spirit for most people, so their perception on her power is skewed because it's less her strength and more about their failure.
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Depends imo. Without add ons, id say Billy. But with add ons, spirit excels far more and is way better than Billy.
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Billy gets looped his chasing ability is better than most m1 killers due to the pressure he can put on surv with his chainsaw but once u learn spirit its really hard but u will dominate everyone
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Billy is faster, wich mean more pressure and will punish mistakes way harder with his chainsaw. But he can be looped allmost like any other average killer.
Spirit does not have quite as much pressure as Billy and only M1 attacks, but can beat loops with her power.
Billy can snowball harder, but a good Spirit will get more consitent good results because at the end of the day its all about the loops. And she is better than Billy at that.
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With Engravings Billy's charge time is even longer. So windows are even stronger against him than usual. So you can still abuse strong buildings like the ones from Disturbed Ward and Ironworks of Misery against him, even easier when he has Engravings add-ons.
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Well, if you need specific perks and such a high skill to counter Spirit, I would say she's better than Billy. The survivors you described in your comment could counter even Nurse without Omega Blink and even Nurse with Omega Blink on a map like Lery's.
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Hands down Spirit is better. I'll take a Hillbilly in my games over a Spirit any day.
Billy is still a great killer but hands down Spirit is by far the only killer almost to Nurse's level.
Her mindgames are disgusting & if you have good ears while using her power she's taking down anyone.
Billy has great mobility and a one shot, but good survivors can pretty much outplay him and force him to M1.
The only way he'll be able to take them down is if he had Insta-saw and imo that's bad because it kind of makes him feel like a add-on dependent killer.
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Spirit is better vs good survivors while Billy can snowball much harder vs decent survivors due the immense map pressure.
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Spirit for more reasons :
1 Better chase potential.
2 Better add-ons.
3 Even Billy mains says about Spirit being better than him.
4 You need specific perks to counter Spirit, but you don't need anything to counter Billy.
5 Less map dependent.
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Billy gets looped which renders his power useless. That of course depends on the map but huge majority of maps have way too many safe loops and they make his power useless.
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I actually think that even Hag is better than Billy against teams without flashlights and/or Object of Obsession. And OoO will become less used after they add the new status effects for stealth killers and for flashlights you have Franklin's Demise, so ...
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Strong buildings are strong against all killers except nurse. Even spirit can't phase walk throw windows.
To compensate the slower charge time use engravings + thompsomson mix or,
engravings + carburetor tuning guide or,
Use double engravings and start your chainsaw early if you want to curve/drift around a loop.
The thing with engravings is that you move so fast giving the survivor no time to react or even make it to the corner.
Watch the video to have an idea of what I am talking about:
Post edited by Zertix on0 -
Spirit is definitely stronger.
You could maybe make a finnicky argument for her being worse when sounds were #########, but when sounds work, there's no doubt whatsoever that she's the clear #2 in this game. Both base kit and add-ons involved.
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Hillbilly
Just because
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That's really useful. I thought the devs were just being detailed and having them shine from the moonlight. But I guess it's from her phasing now.
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I think Spirit's last outfit doesn't have her glasses ( I might be wrong, but I remember it didn't have ), so with that outfit you don't know when she's phasing. Also, watching glasses shining isn't reliable anyway, you get hit untill you know for sure if she's phasing.
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As spirit you can flicker this with a tap and it makes the survivor make a quick decision usually in spirits favor. Just flick the phase and don't move and even the most experienced survivors react. Spirit better than billy to answer OP 💯
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So this is my opinion as someone who used to main base/omegablinks Nurse and Spirit and now play a lot of Billy without ruin or add ons in red ranks. Without perks i'd say it depends on the map. Spirit is consistent in every map, maybe only big maps are a weakness due to her cooldown, especially if survivors stay separated, while billy gets ######### in some maps ( the game or lerys as example but not only). If we pick a balanced maps, i'd say they are almost equal, why? because billy gets looped, but he got an instadown and can curve his chainsaw to some loops(but can still be countered by dropping pallets earlier or change direction at the right time), and also got better map pressure, while spirit got much better chase potential, but lacks map pressure, she gets punished more by her mistakes( ending chase in 5 seconds with phase walk is harder than you think, without add ons her skill ceiling and prediction must be really high). That's why i think they are equal. With their meta builds, considering their best perk add ons, Spirit is better by a small margin, just because she is consistent in every map, and against loopers (curving with instasaw is much easier, survivors also have less time to get to a safe zone, while spirit with increased phase walk duration, reduced charge time power, have all the time to end chases, plus the survivors will not be able to take much distance).
- so with no perk-add ons Spirit = Billy. If the player is really good at both Spirit > Billy
- with meta builds-add ons Spirit> Billy. If the player is really good at both Spirit =Billy
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Billy..... I love Rin but Billy is stronger.... if you come across a survivor on an unsafe gen there is no chase to be had, even in situations where the survivor is at a loop if you make the right read you get a 1 shot and the chase is over.... and as op pointed out Billy has no cooldown and is punished less for using the chainsaw...where if you make the wrong read as Rin you could shoot yourself in the opposite direction of the survivor and be on cooldown.... rin has less map mobility, where she is the princess of are loops, she owns the survivors at loops because mind games and such.... Everywhere else shes B tier...
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If Billy is easily loopable, how is he even considered one of the best in the game. Spirit has a higher skill cap, but she's also far more exploitable than Billy is.
She has god tier mindgames? You can simply abandon the loop she's mindgaming you at. You force out one use of her power and she has to wait to recharge it. Billy meanwhile has a power with no cooldown that applies superior map pressure. Only thing Spirit has is superior chase potential and that's if she secures her power
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I did not say that Billy is easily loopable. He is the best M1-Killer/115% MS Killer, but this is not because of his Chasing Potential (even Clown has a higher), it is his insane Map Pressure and Mobility, as well as the Instadown.
While it is true, that you can simply leave Loops where the Spirit tries to mindgame(even though I think her Mindgames are unfair - it is a Mindgame for herself, but a Guessing game for the Survivor), when the Survivor leaves the Loop, Spirit can simply Phasewalk. And if the Survivor does not have Iron Will, it is very, very hard to get away. I mean, the fact that you need to equip a Perk to have a (higher) chance vs Spirit speaks for itself, you would not need to equip any Perks for Billy, because you have plenty of Defenses on the Map vs him.
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Billy is top tier because he has mobility and punish survivors mistakes like no one else, but even Billy mains with thousand of hours said that good survivors will loop him like a mad lad. And how is Spirit more exploitable when I know Billy mains who would DC any day on Hadnofun and Lery's, while I didn't met a single Spirit to DC because of a bad map ?
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Spirit depends more on her skill than survivors mistakes, and while she will need for survivors to mess up at times, she can do her own plays more often than Billy can. Also, Mother Daughter Ring + Bloddy Hair Brooch is more broken than Anal Beads against survivors with Spine Chill.
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"Billy is top tier because of his mobility and punish game".
Yes that's why he's widely consider an easy killer. He capitalizes on small errors a ton.
"but even Billy mains with thousand of hours said that good survivors will loop him like a mad lad."
Nurse mains will tell you that good Surviviors will juke her like mad. Spirit mains will tell you good Surviviors outplay her like mad. I don't see your point in saying this.
"And how is Spirit more exploitable when I know Billy mains who would DC any day on Hadnofun and Lery's, while I didn't met a single Spirit to DC because of a bad map ?"
Ok by that logic how is Nurse broken bc I know Nurse mains who will DC on Coldwind maps. Spirit is more exploitable bc she flubs her power once and she's a 110 killer for a while during the chase. Billy flubs a chainsaw and he still has it ready to use and is a 115 killer making him faster at base.
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Spirit
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I would say spirit just because I am better with her than I am with billy. Both are top tier though.
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Actually, I know Nurse mains who would DC on Swamp back in days because of the dead zones, LOL. What you said doesn't make Spirit exploitable at all. Also, I know a lot of Billy mains saying that Spirit is better than him. Also, most of the Spirit mains I know said she is better than Billy against good survivors and she is really hard to juke unless survivors have Iron Will, so you are wrong again. Billy's chainsaw is easily avoidable unless Instant Saw is involved, he is pretty weak around windows and his curving can be countered by aware survivors.
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I think that if we're judging the overall strength of a killer, Billy is better. If we are strictly judging chases, Spirit is better.
Billy is one of the most mobile killers in the entire game being able to use his chainsaw to go to 230% speed or otherwise 9.2 m/s, can mindgame at pallets by curving or tricking survivors by briefly charging his chainsaw while also not having much of a cooldown at all. While he is dependent on a survivor making a mistake, he is an overall better killer as he has more going for him.
Spirit on the other hand is slower and the mobility benefit you gain out of using her power for mobility is minuscule making it really only worth it to use her power in chases which she excels in. Unlike Billy she can't be all over the place and has a much longer cooldown.
Basically I consider Spirit to be way better at chasing, but the pressure she can apply is not as good as the pressure Billy can apply which makes him overall a better killer.
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The difference is that there are no perks that hard counter Billy's power. Spirit has at least 5 perks that hard counter her power. Whether those perks are necessary or not is irrelevant when one has hard counter options and the other doesn't.
As for skill, you don't need "high skill" you need a specific skill which most players, no, most gamers lack. Mind skills. I've played a few games at a competitive level, and I was involved with many more as a tournament organizer. I also mostly play only versus multiplayer games. I can tell you from just those experiences that majority of people lack a specific skill where you can predict your opponent and be unpredictable yourself.
Most gamers play like robots and do the same things over and over, like clockwork. I've seen supposed "good" players get bodied by WAY less skilled players because they were just so predictable, and the less skill player was unpredictable AF. Look up a player named Azen in Smash Bros. When this guy hit the scene, he dominated everyone. He didn't even own the game. He could beat you with almost any character. I saw him, in person, topple what were the Melee gods at the time because he was just so good at predictions and being unpredictable. It was the craziest thing to see this nobody who couldn't wavedash and barely L-cancel dominate what were the best players at the time. He became one of the best players in the game and is now a legend in the community, though eventually he was beat by other players as is the natural order of things (no one stays at the top forever).
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I wouldn't say that, more that Spirit has more ability to force survivors into situations where they make mistakes. If a survivor plays perfectly they are still going to be hard to impossible to catch, even for Spirit. Again mind skills.
The thing is the COST of those mistakes. Spirit can force you to make many small mistakes which she can capitalize on quickly and get a hit. Billy can't force as many mistakes as Spirit, but when you do make a mistake against Billy it's a down not a hit. The cost of a mistake against Spirit is low but frequent, the cost of a mistake against Billy is high but less frequent. Billy's snowball potential is way higher because of that. He lands that 1 chainsaw and it can swing the entire game. He lands 2 chainsaws quickly and chances are he just won that game.
Billy also has the option to chase like a normal killer, where Spirit does not. She is almost completely reliant on her power. Billy isn't.
Sorry but I just don't believe Spirit is better than Billy. It may seem that way but if you have a survivor that is has the right perks and the right skill set against Spirit she will have a hard time. Billy doesn't have those very big weaknesses. His only weakness is that he can be looped, which isn't really even an issue because he can force pallet drops better than any other killer and if you give him Enduring/SF that ability is multiplied. A good Billy will eat through pallets so fast that the looping weakness is almost non-existent.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on2 -
Spirit. The killer is stronger than the Nurse.
It's impossible to counter her.
Post edited by Dr_Smith_ on0 -
Just loop him 4Head.
I've heard this is the only reason why spirit is abose hillbilly? so if i come up with 2 reasons why billy is better than spirit that means i win ok
Billy has the best mobility in the entire game
Billy has 1-shot the entire game.
By your logic billy>spirit.
OMEGALUL
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Are you saying she's stronger than nurse?
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Billy is better than spirit, by quite a lot.
I don't understand why soo many people defend spirit, i guess they heard from a streamer i think true, not sure, i don't know for some reason everyone takes that guy as being a good killer, and take his opinions as being facts YIKES.
Either way without getting into specifics, billy is way above spirit, anyone with iq above average can see that.
Just loop him 4Head
Just loop 4Head
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This post is... nah, I am not gonna say this.
Sorry, but OP made exactly no reasoning in his initial post. And it is kinda cheap to ask for reasons, when you dont give some.
But to use your IQ-"argument"...Everyone above Green Ranks will agree that Spirit is better. But I think you are a troll.
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I'm dead serious, rank 1 on both since june 2016, 2000 hours, played spirit when she came out, what can i say...billy is better, i do agree that her addons are insane but you can't use addons everygame.
I don't know why everyone takes true's opinions as facts, i think hes the one that started this movement with spirit over billy and is soo stupid, remember he also said that fake pallets are x10 better than snares, he also said clown is better than trapper/wraith and he put him at mid tier.
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"If a survivor plays perfectly" playing perfectly is relative. I can say "If Spirit plays perfectly, survivors can't do anything against her". Almost anything a survivor can do, Spirit can react properly and vice versa.
Hard counters ? She doesn't have any. A hard counter would be OoO against stealth killers, because no matter what they do, their powers will always be countered. I don't think any perk disable Spirit's power and she always has her counters against said perks.
Billy has "hard counters" too : offerings for Haddonfield and Lery's 😀. But seriously, Billy is more map dependent than Spirit.
Also, here is Billy's counter : You force him to M1. If he doesn't do that, you bait his chainsaws and use windows, every good Billy will M1 when needed, and after he M1 you, his instant down becomes useless, you get a sprint burst to another loop and you have Dead Hard to counter his chainsaw. You talk like Billy will always be able to instant down, but good survivors will almost always force him to M1. If he doesn't M1 and he is too greedy with his chainsaw, 3 gens get done anyway untill he instant down someone.
Spirit Fury takes time to charge up, survivors will drop pallets just when needed against Billy, they can stall him reliably using windows and untill you have Spirit Fury active, gens might get done already. And if survivors know you have SF, they can still play around it.
By your logic, I can say Billy is better than Nurse because Nurse relies on her power even more than Spirit, can't chase without her power, can't instant down and if survivors jukes one of her blinks, they can lose her or put enough distance between them.
If you need mind skill and perks to counter Spirit, she is simply better than Billy, period, end of disscussion. Against Billy I can take any meta perk I want and I even don't need to be "God Tier" with mind games to counter him reliably, while with Spirit you need these things. The survivors who can counter a good Spirit are already the survivors who could counter even a good Nurse, while with Billy you even don't need to be that good to counter him.
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Abandoning the loop is actually good for spirit. She will just follow the scratch marks and if she wants to go easy on her phase, end it. Now you are away from the loop and even though base spirit speed is 110, she can still walk you down.
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It's not that you "need" these things to beat Spirit, it's that they exist in such a way that they can beat her for you. Iron Will is indeed a hard counter to Spirit. That perk alone makes you much harder to track in phase walk. Billy has no such hard counters.
As for the M1 argument, Billy is a 115 killer. He has the option to M1 if he needs it. Spirit, by contrast, is a 110 killer meaning she can't just go around and M1 if she needs it. She MUST use her power. And unlike Nurse, her power has a cool down. Also unlike Nurse, her power doesn't let her negate windows and pallets completely. She can play around pallets, she can't play around windows. That's why I've said in the past that windows are your best options against Spirit because she is forced to either vault and lose distance or go around and lose the chase entirely.
As for map dependency, Spirit does poorly on Haddonfield like all killers. And she can potentially do poorly on Lery's because there are so many windows. It depends on how the tiles are spawned.
Spirit Fury does NOT take long to activate if you play Billy. You can force pallets down early and break them faster with chainsaws. You do that twice and you are set. Also by "play around it" you mean drop the pallet early, which is still a benefit to the killer, especially if that killer can instantly break it like Billy can.
Regarding you last point, again it's about the cost of mistakes. You make a mistake against Spirit you get hit. You make a mistake against Billy you go down. If 2 survivors make mistakes in quick succession against Billy, that's the game. Spirit can't snowball nearly that easily or quickly. She needs a total of 4 hits unless she has something Exposed but that is way more situational than chainsaw. All Billy needs to do to get his one shot is catch you in a bad position. No need for any specific trigger, just get close when there isn't a pallet or window immediately nearby and you go down.
Billy is just better. That's how it is. He has more snowball potential, can force early pallet drops to make dead zones really quick, and doesn't always need to rely on his power. That puts him above Spirit.
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