If this doesn't show how unbalance the game is...
Imagine if this was every single match you had and every single SWF team you went up against, and let's imagine if they all had Insta heals...fun right?
And people complain about noed...and before you say it, I am against noed and it does need a rework, but, when something like this happens, does it justify what noed does at all? Too many second chances survivors get, so why can't killers get second chances? Cause apparently its okay for survivors to have 100 second chance, but if a killer gets one single second chance it's like you just committed a crime.
Let's see how many people who don't pay attention to his situation and say "0h bUt wHY d1d HE p1cK uP tHE SurvIOr tHAt cEarLy HaD DS?"
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Well before people start posting
theobvious let me get my two cents in.Is this common? No. This does however show that if people really want to abuse the power their role has that they can make the game completely one sided.
It doesn't matter what the end results of this match were to have been but rather the fact that this video shows the potential one side has over the other and the incredible amount of tools they have to increase their chances.
To clarify my "vague" phrasing this video shows how many tools a survivor team has in comparison to the killer without even taking into consideration skill and luck.
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Got anything we don't know yet?
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That team even wasn't that good, that just shows how weak Trapper is even against a half decent team. Worst killer in the game in my opinion.
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Imagine if all 4 randoms ran bond and diversion, only trying to get each other killed.
Easy, right?
Shame neither of these examples happens as often as people want them to.
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This doesn't show how unbalanced the game is, it shows how weak Trapper is. 2 generators had been powered before he even got a chance to look for survivors because that time was taken up by him setting traps. You have to think about what would have happened in this situation if different variables had been changed.
For example, what if he had been using ruin over corrupt intervention? If the survivors hadn't found the totem it would be unlikely that generators would have been completed in as quick a time seeing as corrupt intervention will 100% of the time be disabled in 2 minutes whereas ruin can (but usually doesn't) last the whole match.
Some builds are risky seeing as perks can be completely countered by maps or another player's build, we can't pretend that this is a killer only problem either, do you think it's fair for a survivor to get shelter woods while running balanced landing or the game when using lithe? As more perks and maps are added, other perks, killers, add-ons, etc. need looked at and rebalance accordingly.
So all in all, the devs need to look into rebalancing things on both survivor and killer sides as there are many things on both that shouldn't be as strong / weak as they are.
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I guess if I find a video of four survivors getting destroyed then I can show proof that survivors are weak?
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God tier Nurses are rare but that hasn't stopped the devs from using them as an excuse to rework the Nurse.
SWF, like the Nurse, played at a high skill level is OP. It's time to end the long reign of terror 4-person SWF squads have held over this game.
It's time to close the SWF-solo gap and balance all killers around SWF. Enough is enough.
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I don't think NOED even counts as a 2nd-chance perk, even if it wasn't a Hex perk: most killers can not guard most exits on most maps. Survivors literally only have to pick a gate and it's a 50% they'll be found. Then there has to be at least 1/2 of a chase.
You have to not only be a potato but a mashed potato to lose to NOED.
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That was an awesome match to watch.
I would rather face this kind of survivors than the ones who DC tbh.
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I'm sorry but that isn't true, the whole point of NOED is to completely skip a health state. Where a survivor could get hit once, they could possibly run a killer around until another survivor opens the gate they were working on and then run back. It saves the killer an astonishing amount of time and many good players die to it quite often.
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Just to clarify, if you guys hadn't caught the streamers discussing/talking/complaining, the thousands of relevant posts, and from playing the game itself.
The game is unbalanced...
Just making sure we are all up to date on this. I'll give a weekly reminder.
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Same
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Now with some at least semi-viable Killer, and not the worst Killer in the game.
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Don't nerf SWF because not all are super sweaty and JuSt WaNt To PlAy WiTh ThIeR fRiEnDs, but nerf Nurse based on only her high rank play.
#SurvivorStandards
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It saves the killer 50% of the time, which is a very long time considering the extensive options survivors have kept receiving for extending chases. That is if the killer finds someone, which to each person is 50% if they go for an exit and don't even try to hide. You aren't refuting anything I've said.
It's an anti-mashed potato perk. For it to be an actual 2nd-chance perk, it would have to revert a killer fail-state and the only clearly-defined fail-state for a killer is a survivor escaping.
Currently, the game considers someone getting caught in a trap mid-chase to be Trapper 'losing the chase' in the emblem system; such are the incredibly low-standards the devs have for what they consider to be a killer fail-state.
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If four (or the team) survivors are getting destroyed by a good or god spirit, nurse or hillbilly then they aren't weak, especially if the survivors did well against them
If four (or the team) survivors are getting destroyed because they make bad plays, bad loops, bad calls or bad reads then no
If four (or the team) survivors are getting destroyed after surviving longer then 4-6 mins against any killers, especially against nurse, spirit or hillbilly and still pip or safety pip then no
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I was mainly trying to point out that it doesn't only punish bad players. Say you were in a five gen chase with someone and their teammates didn't cleanse all 5 totems and you only then hit them with NOED, they obviously weren't a bad player, you were just using a perk that punishes them for not doing something that they didn't have a chance to do. I don't have that much of a problem with NOED but I don't like the fact that it also punishes players that weren't playing badly.
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If survivors play with maximum efficiency and all meta perks and items they can run circles around most any killer. If a killer picks Nurse and plays at maximum efficiency, they might have a chance. This is why I am convinced Dead by Daylight is a party game, not a competitive game. It's simply not balanced around a competitive mindset.
Traditional balancing always considers the highest level of play as the standard. Meaning that the game is at its most balanced when both sides are playing at maximum efficiency.
Dead by Daylight developers certainly do not balance around the highest level of play - they seem to balance around the rank 10 to 12ish area,to be frank. If you balance your game around low-middle rank play, then it will be horribly unbalanced at the highest ranks,where people playing competitively can exploit imbalances to their maximum.
The killer is reliant on punishing survivor mistakes. If a survivor team makes no mistakes, or makes minimal mistakes while running loadouts than can erase those mistakes or narrow the window in which a killer can punish them, the killer has little to no opportunity to gain momentumn. The game at its core relies on clueless survivors.
To people who say "They won't have an instahela every game!": Just because you don't run into imbalance every game, does not excuse that imbalance. If Omegablink nurse is overpowered one game,it's imbalanced every game. If survivors running optimal kits and coordinating is objectively ruinous to most any killer one game, it's going to be every game.
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The devs know the game is unbalanced, but too many survivors would complain if it did get properly balanced because they would actually have to put effort and a lot of effort into every game to escape.
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Well there is a simple solution to this: make chases shorter. They have become increasingly longer, to please survivors with no regard to what killers feel about them. It's disgusting that a chase even can go on for 5 gens.
The survivor entered a fail-state when the killer first found them. The killer is punished by survivors having extensive, match-long benefits that support their preferred playstyle. The circumstances under which NOED has actually done something remains the same, except now the killer has more than two places to go looking for someone.
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Roll the clip with devs answering the question of Marth (same as this one) a while ago:
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His biggest mistake was losing the 3 gen. He should have pressured them off it and used PGTW.
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Don't bother, OP. People will just claim that "not all survivors play like that". Of course, when it comes to killers (the Nurse, for example), that doesn't matter any more.
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Well, of course the game is unbalanced, to the side i play the most that is.
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"Imagine if this was every single match you had and every single SWF team you went up against, and let's imagine if they all had Insta heals...fun right?"
But It's not? I don't get it, why do people always do these hypotheticals.
What if every match was a 5K hour omegablink nurse with ebony, it simply isn't.
A lot of people, me included realise that things like Instas need looked at, a lot of people also realise you can't win every match, just the same as some survivors get 0 gens done in a match, some killers get 0 kills in a match.
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This is why killers are scared for Nurse changes, afraid for spirit and billy, not very optimistic about future killers when teams like this can just run over basic killers with how dumb maps are with the tiles stacked with all the potential items. Omega blink nurse would have dealt with this ez though lmao
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This ######### can happen to survivors as well ofc we won't talk about that. Complaining about second chance perks nowadays is quite funny considering most if not all have counterplay. If someone has one bad game as a killer "SURVIVOR OP PLS NURF". Survivors do this as well. A killer can have an extremely unfun and unbalanced game and so can survivors. That's how this game works though people will religiously say that their side needs buffs and that the other side is a bunch of whiners that need a plethora of nerfs :/
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Agreed, both sides can abuse certain setups.
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The largest factor in the game is still personal skill and choices which no one seems to mention with these things. It's not just about having something strong it's how well you can use it to your advantage.
A good example is an iri head on a Hutress. Its useless if they cant aim.
While Insta heals and Mori's could do with being looked at as they are just not fun I have seen good killers kill all with 4 Insta heal players and less skilled ones have 4 escapes with a mori.
Each game is different and one game is not reflective of how the vast majority go. Its evident with so many posts of late saying gens always get done in under 5 mins which this 12 min game contradicts.
Most complaints seem to stem from someone versing players they feel they should be better than but are not. You can't win them all on either side and you should never expect too.
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Cool story, bro. Changed my life.
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Nope, this is often very common survivor excuse. There's only 1 killer and 4 survivors, Killers can only be in one place at once and they can only chase one survivor at a time. There's nothing he could of done better. It's why most people agree that 80% killers have no chance to win. This isn't even looping problem. There was hardly any looping in that game(We didn't even see killer shack side of the map), It's just that the game speed is too fast for killer and if you face semi-decent survivors whether in group or just randoms, you lose. it's just how it is. I always found it weird how killers need to use all these extremely optimized perks and add-on and yet when you play survivor, you can play with whatever you want and still win, even 1vs1 killer in some odd cases. When survivors using optimal stuff, they're more nuts then the power-role.
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cause this happens so often...
tbh trapper himself isnt that good of a killer and the perks he was using werent the best, obviously , if he had better perks like noed, bbq,wishpers or some others(he barely used PGTW too) he couldve probably won or get a 2k at least.(which let me remind you thats what the devs aim for)
you cant expect to win against a sweaty meta-slave sfw group without doing the same,that being a sweaty meta-slave killer
you can, however, win against a sweaty meta-slave solo group without being too sweaty or using every meta perk
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If you accept in principle that both sides can have extremely 'unfun and unbalanced' games, then you are accepting that such things can be measured. If they can be measured, the overall picture is knowable.
We can know to what degree there is over-lap between random elements and the extend that player actions can decide outcomes.
Killers have complained for a long time that we lack agency in-game, we are forced to be reactive, based on our experiences and objective comparisons of the dynamics of interacting game mechanics. Most of us are confident then that any fair-minded look at the overall picture would reveal a Venn picture with killers in a small circle, being over-lapped by two very large circles for randomness and survivors, that ony slightly over-lap each other.
This is why of course survivors call for changes to the game, but rarely ever better information. Killers requests feature a desire for information almost as much as they want specific game changes. Everyone knows a clearer picture would support killers, but most don't want to admit it.
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A Trapper without Ruin and without any chase perks who messed up A LOT during the first chase and picked up decisive survivors vs an organized SWF team. What could possibly go wrong? 🤔 And even then he got a kill, multi-hooked several other survivors during that game and got 30+k bloodpoints. Not sure what this is supposed to prove.
Are even organized SWF teams supposed to lose against a Trapper without Ruin? I know Otz is (usually) pretty good at the game but let's be real. He messed quite a bit during that game and still got a kill with a trash perk build.
Everyone who complains about this particular match basically says a 3 man escape should never be possible.
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Yep him legion,wraith and leatherface. If you play these killers expect to get dunked on the entire round.
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They need to at least make more survivor perks viable (not like prepatch MoM, but viable).
Noed does not need any changes, since most of the time totems are destroyed. There is no reason not to cleanse them.
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Imagine if we were all toxic survivors? And imagine if we...kissed 🙈🙈🙈
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Would he have lost even if he was running the "M1 killer" chase perk kit, good addons and made 0 mistakes (he made multiple, one could say game changing)? Maybe, but not as hard as he did.
This clip reminds me of somebody posting a game of Tru3 playing Doctor in Rotten Fields and in almost every chase he made multiple mistakes and people were shouting "unwinnable".
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Find a video of 4 survivors in like the top 30-40 best, getting absolutely deleted, and sure, I guess (without it being a bunch of 4-man no mither memes lol as fun as those are)
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What is this supposed to prove? That one of the weakest killers in the game won't do extremely well against a coordinated 4-man? Like...yeah? Of course? If he didn't make a lot of mistakes in the beginning he probably would have gotten another kill, which would meant pretty much the definition of a balanced match. Seems fine?
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You can’t win em’ all. Except your defeat or win and JUST MOVE ON!
Yes, the game is unbalanced. But does that mean you’re going to get destroyed every match (killer or survivor)? No, it doesn’t.
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He made a few big mistakes though which cost him the game. One was going to kick the wrong gen, if he went to kick the gen by the hill he would have been able to keep his 3 gen setup. That's like the main thing that lost him the game, but there was also how he picked up the one Meg from the trap after gates powered and got DS'd. If he slugged he could have probably got 2 there.
And this is what I talk about all the time with killers complaining. You guys all fail to see the very VERY big mistakes he made. Had he went to kick the gen by the hill I bet he would have gotten a 3k at least, probably 4. It was in his control and he lost it, then he was on his backfoot the rest of the game.
If you seriously don't see those massive misplays then you're not a very good killer. How do you become a better killer? By acknowledging when it's actually your fault you lost and you don't blame the game. No one here seems to want to do that though.
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That's another balance point though. Killer mistakes are FAR more costly than Survivor mistakes. So much so that a single mistake can end up costing the game.
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Same here. 1 guy in basement, another goes to makes the save. Steps in a trap or gets caught before making the save. 3 gens left. Game is pretty much over if the killer decides to camp it. And those were games where things were moving along just fine for survivors then BAM brick wall.
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Bro 😳😳😳
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Maybe killer's only purpose in this game is to make entertainment for survivors...
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I mean, Nurse can "snap out of existence" this "boosted" survivors so...why people don't play her? If you don't do it, that's your fault. Not every killer need to be viable.
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Your entire point falls apart with your first line "Imagine if this was every game" But it aint, so what's the big deal? No game will ever be perfectly balanced, imagine if I played against Diamonds every game in R6S, would that be a problem? yes, but it doesnt so it's a null point.
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Don't forget the perks you guys complaining are solutions to killers' behaviors. Like borrowed time for camping, DS for tunnelling. I think you guys will never stop complaining about survivors and thier perks even they delete all of them from the game.
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Well, to be fair, Trapper (despite being my least favorite killer to face) isn't a very strong killer. He's at the lower end of mid tier.
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