Change Borrowed Time to include killers standing within 5m of hooked person?
Yes, if you see a facecamping killer you go and do gens. I don't play dbd so I can sit idly by and hit space bar all day, I do enjoy chases and mind games.
Had 2 games with a facecamping leatherface running insidious. Insidious has no heartbeat, which means no borrowed time - it would be great if BT triggered if killer is standing within 5m of hooked survivor so that there is SOME counterplay, rather than just 3 people do mindless spacebar gen and end game. Thoughts?
TLDR:
Insidious Perk : You and one other person get to do nothing for 3 minutes! Oh one of you needs to press space bar.
Comments
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No.
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Lord. Can we STOP with the punishments for camping?
It happens. It sucks when it happens to you. Get over it. Move on to the next game.
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Either this or we should just get rid of insidious since it only hurting solo players and the current goal to balance DbD is to close the gap between solo and swf.
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I know each person is different but i find more satisfying to be hard camped while the others finish the gens and leave than just getting rescued.
If you were playing with friends just tell them what to do next time. If you weren't... then this might a good time to start running Kindred.
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Not asking for punishment. Asking for counterplay. Why design something with no counterplay?
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The counterplay is to do generators.
In the time it takes a Survivor to die on their first hook, a lone Survivor can do 2 generators with 20 seconds left to turn for a gate.
3 Survivors means 6 out of 5 Gens can be done, plus 20 seconds to get to a gate. And that's without adding in the likely 30-45 seconds to chase & down and carry and hook the Survivor in the first place.
I'd say that's pretty much counter play.
People need to stop asking for nerfs, punishments, buffs, and mechanics just because they dislike camping.
Camping is legit. It punishes itself. And Killers would do it less if people stopped flinging themselves at a hook they are near!
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I disagree. The devs' goals is to make a fun game. Camping is fun for neither side, unless you're a sociopath. It promotes unskillful gameplay and broadens the gap between solo and SWF. It brings nothing good to the game.
And before someone pops here and says "muh survivors", yes, there are also poor design choices on their side that denies fun from everyone, like the way gens are currently done and the fact that DS doesn't punish only tunnelers and doesn't punish every tunneler either. But no design choice for survivors is as unfun or unskillful as facecamping.
You're also ignoring the fact that DBD is an asymetrical team game, yet it's also individual. Yes, the counterplay for camping is doing generators, but there is no INDIVIDUAL counterplay, which is also very important. There are ways to introduce individual counterplay to the game without breaking its balance. And it's not like good survivors enjoy doing generators too, and if you're not playing to have fun, why are you even playing?
Everything the devs can do to punish camping that doesn't break other aspects of the game, they should do it. Besides, this post is asking for a nerf for Insidious basically, which no good player ever uses. Defending this perk and its current uses is questionable at best.
I'm personally still in favor of at least making Kindred baseline, but w/e.
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There should not BE any individual counter to camping. Because you'd have to take that individual fix and multiply it by 4.
Killers could have any number of reasons to camp:
That Claudette was twerking after ONE pallet stun.
That Jake was carrying a toolbox & sabo-ing hooks.
A 3-4-man SWF all logged in with toolboxes/medkits/flashlights & were meming. This kill took 3 minutes to secure thanks to insta-heals, 3 people with flashlights, meme-builds, & I want them dead.
Etc. Etc.
Because of this, I don't see camping as unfair. The Killer probably has a reason beyond 'I'm a jerk'. And asking for punishment is basically saying 'I don't like this playstyle. Cater to me & change game mechanics so no one can use it.'
Does it suck? Sure. I've had it happen to me, but I don't promptly go 'Grr! Camping should be removed!' because I'm not silly enough to assume the Devs should restructure the game around my little upset.
Camping exists. Camping is legit. Camping should NEVER be punished.
And adding any sort of 'You can't down anyone' like a FREE Borrowed Time perk IS a punishment.
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I think you are confused. Im not asking to nerf camping - sometimes camping makes all the survivors come and die because they aren't doing gens. I'm asking the community what good ways there are to nerf or balance insidious so its not a stupid perk. Feel free to camp away...
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1. You can't punish killers for playing the game how they want to play. Doing that to BT would be op.
2. The killer isn't responsible for making things fun for you. Oh no, you have a match where you do gens and escape... move on to the next match!
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The devs are supposed to make the game fun.
Camping is not fun for anyone worth keeping in the playerbase.
Thus, camping should be punished.
It's not that complicated.
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'It's not fun' is NOT an excuse.
LOSING is not fun, so remove losing.
Being puked on is not fun, so remove Plague.
Being hooked is not fun, so remove hooks.
Being chainsawed by a 100MPH Billy is not fun; remove Billy.
Being caught in a beartrap you did not see is not fun; remove Trapper.
No one claims losing or being focused is 'fun', so this is a flimsy excuse.
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There's a clear difference between "every game has a winner and a loser" and something completely ruining the game.
There are games that are fun when you lose, there are games you win that are boring af.
Besides, look at the examples you gave.
"She PRESSED CTRL at me!!"
"He was wasting time saboing and gave me more time to kill people!"
Like srsly. This is more about lack of maturity from the playerbase than anything.
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There's also a clear difference between "that guy teased me" and completely preventing someone from playing the game.
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Onto the actual idea of the post: Borrowed Time is quite a strong perk and needs no buffs. It should have counters, so it does on stealth killers primarily. It's more of an issue with Insidious overall not adding anything good to the game, but that's a reason to rework it, not buff a perk survivors already run all the time even further.
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Camping is the same as setting a trap. Killer who do that have to gamble, whether they will get rewarded or robbed by doing that.
If some survivor dumb enough to enter the trap (don't forget that hooked guy could give a signal), then it's their own fault and also a reward for the killer.
Why should then the killer get punished when they outplayed the survivor? Because it's unfun, counter some perks?
You have said yourself, that camping is unfun for both side, then don't give camper a reward by entering their trap. Many people might already mentioned that to you, but if you still can't understand it, then it's your problem.
Everyone will have some bad matches when playing as killer or survivor, if you get annoyed, just stay silent and respect other people you play with, and also potentially learn from your mistake.
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No its not really. The kilker just needs to use NOED aswell and the genrush will backfire. And when you don't genrush well good luck applying pressure on a killer in a 3v1 situation.
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So a killer running 2 perks (50% of his perk loadout) and ONE of those perks being a Totem you can easily clear while he hook camps means the Devs need to nerf things instead of you learning how to play around it. IE: Clear totems and THEN genrush.
That's pure lazy, man. Learn to play around it instead of complaining & asking for selfish nerfs to make the game easier for you.
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U can't genrush and cleanse 5 totems at the same time. Either you genrush or do 5 totems.
Post edited by DaS_only on2 -
The "learn to play against it" only works when we're talking about balance, which we're not. Camping is mostly trash.
It doesn't work when we're talking about bad design though. I'm gonna assume this is an honest mistake and not you being dishonest to try to prove a point.
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This guy knows what's up.
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Lol yeah run around looking for and cleansing dull totems while the killer is camping. You can’t be serious. I guarantee if you were on the hook with a killer standing in front of you you would not be cheering the survivors on as they didn’t do generators. Campers with NOED is a clear issue as you can not counter both at the same time. But keep on being biased I guess.
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In what world can't you cleanse totems if the Killer is camping?
I mean, if he's camping, he's not stopping you from doing gens or looking for totems since he's...you know..CAMPING.
But keep on being biased, I guess. Lies push your agenda more than the truth and you guys REALLY want your own biased play styles pushed into the game.
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So dont play?? Good luck in your other games.
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If it's a M1 type killer and they do it and you really want to save just bait a hit when they try to grab you.
If it's a killer with an instadown and ESPECIALLY Leatherface just leave the survivor on the hook and do gens.
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Not sure about the change but it really does suck that any stealth killer/perk can negate Borrowed Time completely
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And there is survivor perks that completely counter stealth. At best it's one perk cancels another. At worst is killer ability cancels one perk of one survivor and one survivor perk cancels out killers ability. What gives.
Also yet another complain about insidious Bubba. Oh no, he wasted whole 3 minutes of your life that you never getting back!
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"In the time it takes a Survivor to die on their first hook, a lone Survivor can do 2 generators with 20 seconds left to turn for a gate."
This is just straight up false. A generator takes 80 seconds to complete, a single hook phase is 60 seconds (assuming no kobe attempts).
So dying on the hook is 2 minutes while 2 solo gens are just shy of 3 minutes. But even that would only be true if the gens were right next to eachother, which is never the case. So add like 10 seconds for running from gen to gen.
And of course, unless you are playing with friends OR the hooked guy is running Kindred, you will never know for sure if the killer is really camping or not initially. So add another 30-60 seconds that's taken up by confirming that the killer is by the hook.
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What if every game it happens?
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Then killers with rank higher than yellow don't exist.
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Believe me there are some many killers do this even with high ranks.
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But killers that do that never rank or even derank. So if you get them every game, they never get to higher ranks. Basically, if higher rank killers exist, your statement is false.
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Oh okay, instead of discussing the thing or debate my opinion, you decided to insult me because of my "bad" writing?
Fair enough man, I see no reason to debate or discuss with you since you're type of guy who like to mock other just because they not as perfect as you at writing long sentence. Keep that ego of yours.
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Developers need to do something about tunneling and camping. Its toxic and ruins the gameplay experience. It's getting pretty bad, and the killers have been getting A LOT of new counter perks and counter tactics (New end game, DS buff, re worked Freddy, and a way OP killer in ghost face). Gen rushing gets boring pretty quick, and finding then cleansing totems while trying to gen rush is damn near impossible.
I dont play killer that often but when I do it's not that hard to get a 4k without tunneling and camping,and it's a hell of a lot more fun playing that way. And before you say something stupid like GeT GuDd, or "it doesnt ruin gameplay" remember people walk away from games with ######### balancing all the time. And it will happen with this game if nothing is done. How about the player being camped dies at a slower rate if the killer stays within a certain range of the hooked survivor? Just a sensible idea 🤷♂️
P.S. it would be nice to be able to punish toxic gameplay on both sides. But society is filled with ######### people now days so it's hard to do that.
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Oh okay, so instead of discussing or debating my statement, you decided to insult me, just because my "bad" writing?
Fair enough man, I don't see any benefits for discussing something with someone who couldn't respect other people either.
Keep that ego mate, you're indeed perfect and the best in the world.
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I legitimately didn't understand much of your post, sorry if I was rude.
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Allowing BT to work against zero terror radius face camping at FIVE METERS is not punishing a camper, but allowing a chance at counterplay that isn't just 'let the survivor die because we're too lazy to come up with a solution to this BS'
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It's only 'BS' because you don't like it.
It's not a bug, glitch, or abuse of mechanics.
It requires a Killer to give up a perk slot AND gen pressure AND 3 other kills for ONE KILL.
And if you're running in against a Killer clearly FIVE METERS away, that's your fault. Not the Killers, and not the games.
Why should the Killer get punished for YOU wanting to make a bad play?
He used your friend as bait to go Survivor Fishing, and you bit. Stop acting like this is somehow not completely in your control to avoid.
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Isn't that EXACT point of the perk? Hiding heartbeat is what this perk does.
It is actually designed for camping as it is hard to use for anything else.
Maybe changing it to instead trigger when you stand still in chase or something?
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You're not listening to anyone are you?
No, it's BS because it means 5 people aren't playing the game because 2 are at a hook while 3 are just holding M1 and not interacting and by doing that they actually give that killer an advantage because he will run NOED; not enough time to find all totems and do all gens while this one person is being camped.
But OK, go cry some more about how the killer is the one sacrificing themselves in making the game the most boring piece of crap to play when they do that. :)
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It was designed with mindgames in mind; by removing your heartbeat, it also removes the red stain. The camping was just a nasty side effect that wasn't thought of when making it.
Making it activate in chase, but faster than 3 seconds would be a great change and add some extra variety for killers when it comes to perks tbh.
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The problem here is that killers retain (RIGHTLY) that the game is too much unfairly unbalanced for killers, and this is true, but this doesn't mean that we gotta make the game unfun for everybody. We can all agree that everything must have a counter in this game, but some things in this game don't have any kind of counter, for example red syringes, keys, etc.
Camping and facecamping have their own counter : doing gens. The fact is that this game must be funny and rewording for strong players, and even if after a facecamper with insidious camped you allies would rush the ######### out of him, you still would lose the pip, even if survivors would win the match. The problem is that this should happen, so you don't get punished for doing your team work and winning the match, and this sucks
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