Everything we complain about has counter play.
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Git gud and run Enduring, Spirit Fury, or Brutal Strength.
Also, if you're complaining about loops, I suggest you stop maining Wraith and or/ Bubba.
Thanks ๐
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God I hope you play ps4 so my wraith could have a word in you lol
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Ok: So tell me the difference for this:
Killer is camping the survivor: What do you do? Unless you can do a combat BT save. You do gens while the survivor is on the hook. Since they will just die and be tunneled to the ground anyway.
Killer has a mori: The killer is sitting awfully close to make sure he can tunnel the survivor to the ground and swiftly tunnel them out of the match. Let's save him!
Do you not see that this is the same tactic just in a different way? Nah man suicide on hook like most people do when they are camped. There is a reason that there is a 2 minute lifespan timer. Then if you happen to get off the hook. Realize you are dead next down and play stealthy. They have counter play.
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You're talking out your ass
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Hey, I enjoy debate. Instead of insulting random people. Read This! Prove our Logic Wrong!
https://thebestschools.org/magazine/15-logical-fallacies-know/
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No.
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That isnโt the only thing I can do with my ###. :P
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Sounds like you know how to counter loops!!! Whilst these people don't!!
At least you aren't saying looping is an exploit, don't know where they got that from.
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They are referring that it is an exploit due to the size of the hitbox. Although, I don't find it an exploit it just semi-abuses that a survivor has a smaller collision box than the killer. So when it comes to loops you shave extra distance as a survivor. Although, the killer is faster than you and will catch up. They take wider turns which makes the rate at which they catch up to you longer than it would if you were running in a straight line.
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But theoretically, survivors are smaller than killers and should have a smaller hitbox when it comes to cutting around obstacles, killers are already faster than survivors so why should they have another advantage?
These people are suggesting that removing loops because it's a "exploit" will be healthy for the game, it won't. Removing the only defense that survivors have will completely kill the survivor side of the game.
But it doesn't matter because it's fun for them.
Don't know what I'm worrying about because I know the devs won't be stupid enough to listen to these types of people and remove the only defense survivors have.
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I would prefer more elaborate type maps where losing a killer was actually feasible. Spinning in circles isn't particularly fun and neither is hold m1 for success.
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Would spinning in circles be referring to pallet looping or 360's?
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Only one of those two methods works at high tier. I think you can determine which one I am referring to. I am not saying it Shouldn't be in the game. However, I am saying there could be healthier alternatives. That or more mechanics. I hate to advertise games so I will just say that a few other games. Although, they are practically dead now. Had better mechanics where it wasn't just sit and hold m1. There was strategy and multiple mechanics for both sides.
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Dude do u honestly think the game is perfect cuz it's far from it and also it's very easy to idealisticly say that there is a counter to everything but u can't possibly know what the killer or survivors are gonna do pre match alot of ur counters are along the line of "equip a perk" or "hide" and the best one is " just take it" such a great counter and while I do agree that alot of these things have a form of counter play it's not great counter play and needs balance
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Wasn't complaining. I was stating a fact :D
So get your patronizing remark out of here.
Intended? Nah. Adopted into gameplay, si.
I'm not saying looping should be removed. I was stating a fact that it wasn't intended.
Exploit- Make full use of and derive benefit from (example here)
In this case survivors are fully making use of a killers larger hit box. And especially the Trapper's trap hitbox, as that was made smaller and then never touched again. I'm not trying to use Exploit as a bad term, the problem is, I find that my advantages as a killer becomes problematic for survivors and it's removed. And yet survivors keep their advantages for a long time (Bear in mind I am absolutely NOT talking about exploited bugs like the Knife add ons for Legion or the Mad Grit perk or when survivors find their way to places they can't be hit from).
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Well you should've said so in the first place!!
I thought you meant that it was an exploit that should be removed and were complaining about it!!!
Sorry for the inconvenience, I thought you were legit complaining about it being an exploit and should be removed.
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You know wall jumping in Mario games wasn't intended. It was a bug in SMB1 (and 3 I think) where if you jumped into a wall just right, you clip into it for a few frames and can jump off the block just below your position. It was later made a feature in the game.
Looping is very much the same, and considering that the game released in basically an alpha state it is merely an emergent dynamic of the game's mechanics. Once the developers realized this, they started to build the game around it. That's why every new tile's design factors in looping and why the newer tiles in the game are more balanced than older ones. It's why double pallets/windows don't exist anymore. It's why shack was changed so much from 2016 and why it is one of the few tiles in the game that has a set layout. Because it was deemed to be the most fair in terms of the looping dynamic.
Whether or not is was intended is irrelevant. It's a major part of the game, and to ask for it to be removed is like asking for hooks or generators to be removed. Aside from a few spots that still need revision, looping is not at all as strong as some people claim it to be. A good killer has methods to beat most loops. Now with Badham we are getting less safe loops, but more of them. Killer has gotten so much easier since 2016 it's honestly baffling how much some people still complain. PS I'm not saying there are not issues with the game's balance, but it is WAY WAY better than it was 3 years ago, or even just 1 year ago.
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Nah, cause unlike some other killer mains, I do actually know survivors need a chance to defend themselves. However, I just wish stealth was a more valid option.
You obviously didn't read the whole post that you just quoted, or you just didn't understand me. If the latter I'll pin the blame on myself.
I don't want looping to be deleted, there has to be loops because survivors otherwise have no realistic ways to defend themselves. I was merely stating that looping was in fact a exploit used by survivors, and that you have mentioned, been made into a feature. As for this point:
"A good killer has methods to beat most loops."
Who? Nurse, Spirit, Hag and Trapper? Four out of 16 and even then only three (sorry Trapper, love you, but your trap hitbox can be garbage) can actually deal with loops effectively. Billy is only really good at punishing mistakes. And yet a majority call out for him to be nerfed. Legion could've been a promising killer, but their exploit heavy game play and the extreme nerf just knocked them out of the park.
Anyways, my stance on looping is just to balance it a wee bit more for the killers who can't teleport or have powers that can negate/stagger loops.
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....right. You said exactly what I said.
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It's not an exploit it's an emergent dynamic. An exploit is something that breaks the game. Looping does not break the game, it was merely something that naturally evolved from the way pallets/windows were used.
Calling it an exploit is like calling camping or tunneling an exploit. It's not.
EDIT: Just to make these points...
1) Infinites are exploits because they break the game. But not all loops are infinites, even back when the game came out. Therefore looping in itself is not an exploit.
2) It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the devs didn't realize looping was a thing when first creating the game. In fact I will bet they knew what it was before any of us did. The thing was, back then no one, including the devs, fully understood it, which is why so many loops were really bad and why infinites existed. But cut to today, the devs greatly understand looping and as such the newer tiles in the game are way better designed. Therefore, looping was likely an intended dynamic of the game, albeit one that was very misunderstood at first.
Post edited by thesuicidefox on0 -
Did you not notice I added on to what you said though? That was my way of agreeing with you. Shesh.
It exploits the killer's larger hitbox, and in this case that isn't necessarily a bad thing for the survivors. It would be like a killer exploiting the fact their bigger hitbox can trap survivors in corners more easily. I'm not using exploit in the negative way here.
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No it doesn't exploit anything. If that was truly an exploit, the devs would have changed the killer hitbox by now. Doesn't matter if you mean it in a negative way or not, killer v survivor collision box is not an exploit. Take literally any loop in the current game, have both players run the loop perfectly, and the killer will still eventually catch up. Nothing there is exploited.
I edited my post probably before you saw so I ask you go back and read the edit... but nothing about looping is an exploit. The only time it crossed the line to being an exploit is when the loops were infinite, but nearly all those kinds of loops have been removed from the game.
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I never said anything about ANY of that, just that I think its funny when ppl make plays around the idea that theres a mori that doesnt exist.
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I can see your points, but if we won't call it exploiting, that still leaves the fact that survivors still take advantage (and it's in their rights to do so) of the fact killers cannot round corners faster then survivors in a loop.
1) Infinites are gone, so I'm not counting that in my argument. What I am saying is that due to a survivor's smaller size, they can really take advantage of things most killers can't, and the problem is, all killers share the same hitbox no matter how big or small they are, meaning that someone as small as the Hag still get stuck in things that someone as small as the Trapper could. It's the same for the survivors, except they all can use it as a advantage.
2) Pre-Legion 'rework' I would've agreed that the Devs knew from the start what looping was, but not the full extent. Unfortunately current events leave me to believe that they really had no idea what looping ever was to begin with. That or they underestimated how abusable the tools they give could be.
To reiterate:
When I say exploit I mean to use as a advantage, and there is nothing inherently wrong with doing that.
Infinites were part of the negative exploits that I didn't include as a argument, I was in fact referring to the fact that survivors could turn corners tighter then even the frail Hag couldn't (and could streak past Trapper Traps even when they shouldn't have).
Forgive me if I disbelieve you when you say "It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that the devs didn't realize looping was a thing when first creating the game."
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Yeah: I run the shroud a bunch myself :)
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An advantage is not an exploit.
And exploit is something that negatively impacts the game. Face camping to body block the unhook prompt was an exploit. Infinites were an exploit.
Looping/collision box size difference is NOT an exploit.
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Tru3 was going on and on about the killer's "mori"
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Exploit- Make full use of and derive benefit from (example)
Advantage- A condition or circumstance that puts one in a favorable or superior position.
Also a note:
Exploit isn't always a negative verb. In this case I'm using it in a positive note.
And in this context, most survivors exploit their advantages.
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But in gaming terms, an advantage is not an exploit. It is a very specific thing, usually a bug or a serious flaw in design, that is considered an exploit.
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Long queue times don't have any counter.
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This thread is two months old, why revive it?
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I have never once had a problem with decisive. Oh that's right I slug everybody without impunity.
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