Why do people want desperately a nerf to Spirit?
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And there are those variations I was talking about lol.
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Standing still has 0 strategical value. The only way to ever get anything out of doing it is through tricking your opponent with it. That's the entire basis behind a mindgame.
Just because something doesn't require much execution doesn't mean it doesn't take skill. Or do you think Chess is insanely easy?
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You don't need to know if she is phasing or not. You should just always assume she is, but that she is also just standing there. So whatever you do needs to counter both options at the same time.
Scratch marks take a full second to appear, so if you run in a certain direction, then walk in a different direction most of the time you will be able to gain enough distance from where she exits phase walk to make it to another loop. Her power does have a cool down, so your goal should be to get her to waste her power. If she was phase walking from a great distance you KNOW you have 15 seconds and she can't try the stand still trick on you because it's obvious her power isn't ready yet.
Asking for her phase to be directional would literally kill her. She would go from 2nd/3rd best killer to F tier right next to LF. That was the whole reason it was changed from the PTB, it was way too easy to know what she was doing.
Prayer Beads need a change, I agree. I've suggested before that they shouldn't allow you to grab out of phase walk, or that it should add very audible footstep sounds when she is within 6m just to prevent easy gen grabs, but outside of that Spirit is fine the way she is. She has counter play, with or without Iron Will (with makes it way easier but I digress). Again it's not easy but it can be done.
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Yes you can. I do it on a very consistent basis by understanding when I'm leaving tracks, making sounds, or moving grass. Against Spirits I know to be good players. And other players do it to me, and I feel I'm a very solid Spirit player. You act like it's impossible, it's not.
She is slow too, all you need to do is make sure she doesn't come out of phase walk right on top of you. THAT IS IT. If she's even a mild distance away you can make it to another loop because she is a 110 killer.
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for the record. Every meter of distance you have on her when she exits phase walk gives you 2.5 seconds to get somewhere.
Any Pallet loop longer than 6 meters (in terms of width, not the total length of the loop) can be mindgamed by the Survivor against a Spirit.
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You have to assume she is following you, or doing something to counter what she expects you to do (vault a window). It's not a guess, it's a read. A guess is just a shot in the dark. A read is based on previous interactions, and what seems to be the most logical decision at the time. In other words it's a calculated risk.
Like when you are chasing a survivor and they jump into a locker, how often do you guess they were in the locker and how often did you predict they were in the locker. I will admit there were times where I opened a locker on a guess and they were in there, but majority of the time I do it because I expect them to be in there. I open the locker with a certain expectation, I'm not just doing it randomly without expecting it (usually).
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What I'm telling you is that you don't need to see her. You just need to know what options you have available and calculate which she will expect you to do. When she phase walks, there's not an infinite amount of things that can happen. There is at most a handful. You are basically overthinking it by trying to react to what she does instead of calculating which options are the best you have and then predicting what the killer will be predicting of you. If you showed a habit of running to the window to vault, then don't vault because she will be expecting that and is in the process of countering it. If you backtracked last time, she is mostly likely expecting that so don't do that. Basically never pick the same option too often, ie. be predictable.
This is how I play against Spirit and it almost always works. Of course, sometimes I don't have many good options or she just predicts what I'm going to do, or she does something really bizarre that I couldn't have predicted and by chance runs into me (which is very very rare).
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If that is your issue with Spirit then enhancing her footsteps sounds and possibly breathing would be an easy fix. Maybe similar to Wraith when he is cloaked? I’ve heard her footsteps while I was walking and she was phasing but it is a little difficult to hear and I was walking. It’s one way I have avoid many gen grabs. I heard her footsteps.
I really don’t think you should know exactly where the Spirit is while phasing though
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That’s her intended design. You’re not meant to be able to know when she is or isn’t phasing. Don’t vault back into her. It’s that simple. A LOT of times she’ll stand there and when I run away I gain enough distance before she actually starts phasing that I hear her whooshing. She has an audible warning when she is coming your way when outside of terror radius.
I’ve had survivors lead me on chases for a long time while playing Spirit, you know why? Because they knew how to not show scratch marks. They didn’t have the basic ######### survivor build. They had perks like Lightweight, Dance With Me, Iron Will, Quick and Quiet, etc...they didn’t run in a straight line. They did things like run, then walk, then run again, and walk again. They didn’t double back into me. They fast vaulted then slow vaulted the window. You have things at your disposal that you can do to confuse the Spirit player.
You can’t lead her on chases for five generators like other killers unless she is just terrible. She will eventually catch you like most killers will.
You can’t play against her the same way you do other killers, if you do then you lose.
Her phasing was directional in the PTB and it was awful.
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Literally just scroll up a bit. I just posted a detailed explanation on how a Survivor is supposed to use Skill in order to do FAR better than random chance when facing a Spirit. It works and it applies to a lot of things.
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I didn’t realize the desire is so high, but I hope they don’t change her since she is such a fun killer to play and excited to play against as survivor
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Mind gaming is a very different kind of skill than Strategy or Precision.
Unlike with Precision based gameplay there is no obvious right answer. And unlike a Strategical move you aren't basing the decision off mechanical information.
Mind games are about psychology, prediction and manipulation. You do not need ANY mechanical data beyond an understanding of the basic situation itself in order to win a mindgame. And when you use mechanical to win an interaction the interaction that you just won was NEVER a mindgame.
You can absolutely read something you can't hear or see. That's what makes it a read, otherwise it's just a reaction.
Mindgames only happen when you lack the information required to know what your next move should be. Thus you need to figure it out somehow with no way to guarantee it. The Spirit has to do the same thing since the data that she needs is your next move, knowing your current position when you are injured helps but only gets her so far in certain situations.
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Pray beads isn’t the problem imo but the add-ons that make her super fast... people probably don’t take into account that pray beads typically get paired with one of these.
If you stacked both of the fastest movement speed, the game’s not going to go much different with pray beads + faster movement. (You’re seen = you’re dead because she’s so fast anyway + can beat you to any pallet)
As for spirit’s base kit it’s fine but she’s not boring (nurse is boring) but there’s a blank feeling (for me anyway)... rather that I’d have another killer. I do run spine chill though but when I haven’t spirit does feel like a whack-a-mole style of game of luck.
The devs could make the phasing directional to give a quasi-/lesser-spine chill... then the spirit has to learn to turn around here and there since the survivors are almost completely blind but the spirit isn’t all that lacking in info.
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In the same narrative, M1 killers shouldn't HAVE to bring Hex Ruin just to stand a chance, but they do. It's part of the game and makes certain killers viable again. It may feel like a forced decision to you to need a perk to counter this one specific killer, but if you want your game to be easier then you'll do it the same as a Clown will take Ruin.
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I dunno if any of you guys ever played any fighting games but even there it’s common to have 50/50 mindgame setups where you have to guess which decision is right. I don’t see a problem with having that same mechanic on this game with a killer. It’s not even guaranteed in this game that you get the hit even if your opponent guesses wrong so I really don’t see the problem with her except maybe the addons
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I am personally not asking for nerfs even though I am arguing against her. Yes she is a very strong killer with no reliable counterplay but she is not broken. She still obeys Dead by Daylight mechanics unlike the nurse.
Removing her collision while phasing and making Iron Will not affected by Stridor would make her less frustrating to verse. But she can stay how she is right now.
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Ruin isn’t needed though.
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Nice fighting game metaphor.
You forgot the spirit isnt 1v1ing a survivor.
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Survivors dont need to use perks to win either.
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If the spirit misses she loses time which is the most important ressource on killer. Cause the longer the chase lasts the more generators get popped. Also you gotta guess wrong twice if we take a healthy survivor as base.
For statement "Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do as a survivor -- you're just getting hit" I would say that is only true if you aren't close to any vault/pallet and then could be said for all the killer.
It's a 1on1 in a chase situation it might be a 4on1 objective game but chases mostly boil down to 1on1 (with the occasional body block from others). So my metaphor isn't that far fetched tbh
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I would like to point out that no amount of information can make it possible to just a Spirit when it would otherwise be impossible. So solutions using that method are doomed to fail at increasing the amount of mindgames that are possible for the Survivor side.
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- so they can focus on Billy
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