Anti-genrush(just doing gens fast) idea
How about adding increasing and decreasing gen point multiplier based on amount of recently finished gens (X amount of time, for example 2 minutes)?
So if you just rush gens with your team and finish all of the gens in first 4-6 minutes you get very few points but if you finish the gen when previous completed gen was finished more then 2 minutes ago you get for example double points.
Or even, every time you don't touch the gen for X amount of time by doing something else you gain that increasing multiplier.
You would get more points and small insentive to do other things like searching chests, breaking totems and such.
What do you think?
Comments
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Are we talking bloodpoints, if we are then no, please no. That said I do think something needs to be done about gens.
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The solution to gen rush should NEVER be to punish survivors for doing their objective. Period. I'm not adverse to more content to be added in that would give survivors more to do, but a punishment for doing the one thing required to escape...no.
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Should just be a bandwidth on the amount of gens being done, example
1 gen being worked on = normal speed
2 gen(s) being worked on = 15 % reduction in repair speed
3 gen(s) being worked on = 30 % reduction in repair speed
4 gen(s) being worked on = 40 % reduction in repair speed
Next one is on repair speed on a single gen stacked with survivors. Speed reduced per survivors repair speed not speed overall on gen. (Example instead of 200% repair speed from 2 people, it would be 160% speed.) Following the chart bellow
2 survivors working on a gen = 20% slowdown on the single gen repair speed
3 - 4 survivors working on a gen = 45% slowdown on single gen repair speed
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Debuff on gen wont work no matter what the only solution its making a second objective gor survivor an example they need to find first gas can and put it on gen so that they can start doing the gen this will get rid off the gen rush and both sides will be happy
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then there will be something like gas rush, that is just like the Left 4 Dead 2
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Please stop with that stupid Term "Gen Rush". The Survivors are doing their Objective, it is not their fault that most of the Killer Players cannot compensate for it.
Just yesterday I watched a German Streamer (Prayer Beads Spirit) I faced. He tunneled a lot (great Fog Whisperer btw., shows the quality that is needed to represent BHVR and this game../s) and was complaining about every DS and BT he ran into. Like, I unhooked 3 people, he saw me all the time and 3 times he ran into BT, instead of just going for me. And complains about Gen Rush, because he loses so much time to chase the people who got BT and DS. A day before I had him with Infinite EW3 Myers. I unhooked someone, and instead of going after me (with EW3, so both people are Oneshot), he went after the other person and got hit by DS. And again, complains about how less time Killers have.
And you want to support those kind of people? Players like that who do everything wrong and complain afterwards about getting genrushed?
With a decent amount of Map Pressure, Gen Rush is harder to do. But I agree that some form of second Objective is something to look for, but not something like "Lets Survivors take double the time without any more balancing".
Anyway, I dont want to get less points for doing Gens. What else should I do? When there is no Totem nearby or I am not getting chased or going for an Unhook? Watching the scenery? Or play Hide and Seek with the other Survivors, while one person is getting chased?
Post edited by Aven_Fallen on4 -
When people use the term "gen rush" they usually aren't saying the players themselves are doing something wrong, they're saying the game is unfortunately designed in such a way that the players can complete their objective too quickly, and usually that it should be changed.
You might not agree with that assessment, you might not agree with the proposed solution (I don't here) but there's no reason to take offense at the term. It's a handy shorthand.
Also, right after complaining about this, you complain about tunnelling. It's funny because you could say almost the exact same thing: "The Killers are doing their Objective, removing players from the game most efficiently. It's not their fault most of the Survivor Players can't compensate for it." Except there's a general acknowledgement that that makes for unfun games for most everyone else, and it should be avoided, and the game has decent structures in place (DS, borrowed time) to make it less worth the killer's while.
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I do not think this is necessary. I think against optimal survivors, almost every killer will lose, but not every survivor group has 4 optimal survivors. On top of this, there are numerous ways to slow the game down with perks, add-ons, slugging to stop a gen, juggling, and even some killer abilities like pig trap.
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Secondary objectives don't work. a good example of that is NOED and Totems, technically, Noed can win games and you can counter the perk by doing the totems, but it's not primary objective to winning the game, it's optional time-waster/bp. It's better to just increase generator time by say 20 seconds and give killers more time. see if they can do anything with extra minute. The other option is making more perks that slow the game down or buff existing perks that slow the game down, but realize that those perks will become mandatory in every killer build, see hex:ruin for example and that's not a very healthy for the game. survivors deserve strong perks, because it makes the game more interesting, but the game still has to be fair for both sides at the end of the day. If your downing people in 20 second chases, and yet generators are still flying and you lose, there's only so much map pressure a killer can do against optimal survivors and that player is clearly not getting rewarded for playing the best of his capabilities in given situation with said killer.
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And what about kill rush? I see a lot of games of this type too. Something like: If a killer kills all survivors in first 4-6 minutes he gets very few points. Or only killers want survivor not no do gen so fast?
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When that happens is usually a big, big, gigantic, survivors fault. Here we are talking about killers getting punished even if they play optimally, doing almost zero mistakes in the match, and still loosing hard.
Edit:
Killers already get few points and depip when that happens.
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What about campers? They would love this idea. Harshly penalize survivors for trying to get multiple gens done while they camp!
Post edited by Karl_Childers on1 -
I think they should change how skillchecks work a little.
Like, there should be atleast one skillcheck every 12 seconds. And maybe after 2-3 gens are done, skillcheck circles have TWO skillcheck areas. And you must hit both.
Then again thats just an idea.
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Yea looking at this post now it was stupid, I just now realized that Survivors need a new objective not more times on gens
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The counter to survivors fixing gens is to patrol the gens and kill survivors.
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Or maybe they get more difficult as the game goes on, similar to how unnerving presence works.
0 gens done: normal
1 gen: slightly smaller
2 gen: moderately smaller
3 gen: tremendously smaller
Etc... it could even change based on level of the character you're currently playing.
It'd be an indirect buff to Hex: Huntress Lullaby, since it's already underwhelming for a Hex Perk.
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You are absolutely correct. There is very little I can do against a good chaser when they're in a high level SWF group.
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My problem with Gen Rush is that, even with Ruin, ges get done so fast before the match even really starts. And how often I see Ruin destroyed in the first 30s, so gens are done even faster!
I should not need Ruin to not loose 2 Gens in early game. But pushish simultaneous work on gens is not good as is adding time for gens or add more gens to be done.
I like @Lametart and @Raven014 ideas with more/smaller Skillchecks but this would only be a temporary solution to the problem, for Skillchecks don't really matter to good or more experienced Survivors, only for new players. And with them Gen Rush was never a problem.
It is hard to balance this because it's kinda rank/experience dependent. And we all know what would happen if it would be more difficult for Survivors on high ranks....
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I just got an idea for this: The more gens are done, the smaller the Great Skillcheck zone is.
O Gens: 100%
1 Gen: 70%
2 Gens: 40%
3 Gens and more: 0%
Why?
I, as an experienced player, thought about the reason why gens are done fast. And this is that many people have practiced hitting Great Skillchecks (wich add 2% progress I think). And why is that? Because the use of Ruin made them practice. So once Ruin is gone, Survivors fly through gens because they'll hit Greats the most time. Slowly reducing this zone makes "powering through Ruin" ineffective. They would either have to find the totem or they'll have to Gen tap to avoid it. Both consumes time. And have straight 2x 80s of Gens in the end can be massive, for there are most likely no more toolboxes left and you can patrol the last 4 gens better.
Why not the other way round? This would make it very difficult for the killer to find people when they decide to find the totem first.
Without ruin, this would give the Survivors a normal start but they would need more time in the end. And they'd have to be more aware of the map to prevent 3genning themselves. This would be punished even more.
[Edit: This would most likely not affect new players, because they normally just hit Skillchecks (Good ones) and most of them will search for the totem before touching a Gen again. This would only add a challenge for more experienced players.]
What do you think?
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Already stated that idea myself. And as @LapisInfernalis stated, it would just affect lower rank survivors most, and only be a bandaid fix.
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Damn killers are never satisfied. It’s no secret that the devs favor the killers over the survivors everything in the game is so one sided every time there’s a new update it’s always about buffing something for the killers and nerfing something for the survivors. There was nothing wrong with the game, there was just something wrong with you. If you’re not good with a certain killer, don’t blame the killer itself because at the end of the day you’re the one controlling it, there’s people who always got 4K with Freddy, but just because some people couldn’t use his power effectively they cried to the devs and the devs said aww baby don’t cry we’ll make it easier for you and harder for them okay. Face it y’all are ######### spoiled brats. The devs do everything in their power to help you win easier yet you still complain. They’ve made many attempts to help gen rushing, they made it so if more than one person is working on a gen then the time to complete slows down. They’ve made perks to literally SHOW you when more than one survivor is working on a gen, they’ve made perks to literally have gems BLOCKED by the entity at the start of the game so survivors can gen rush. Yet here you are crying for more. I can’t with y’all.
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laughs in nerfed NOED into a perk that either clutch or just won't work at all
laughs in adre DS BT DH x4 swf stack
laughs in "optimized totem spawn algorithms" whilst ruin is cleansed 30 seconds into the game half of the time and you basically play the game with 3 perks
laughs in 12 dogshit killers out of 17
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Both sides are justified in my book. With no speed perks or toolboxes, a single gen can be repaired in just over 1 minute by one person.
A mediocre survivor can hold a chase for over 3 minutes...sure they’ll have to use most safe pallets to do so making all future chases much easier, but by then 3 gens just popped.
From a survivor perspective, it’s what they are supposed to be doing! No one can ever fault them for that, and I often wish randoms in my games would PTFO a little more.
Maybe we can spawn on 5 gens onto the map at the beginning of the game, and the last 2 appear on the map only after a gen is complete. So not all gens will even be spawned until the first 2 gens are completed.
This won’t favor either side too much, but not knowing where those other 2 gens will spawn can help. As a survivor, they may have wasted the ‘Go To’ loop pallets near that gen in an earlier chase.
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@Raven014 I'm not quite sure if you understood what my point was, so I will explain again.
I would only reduce the GREAT Skillcheck zone (the tiny one). I know for a fact, that new players don't hit one of these as much (only by chance) because they tend to struggle with Skillchecks in general and are glad they hit it. Experienced players hit Greats most time which can lead to very fast Gen progress. By taking this away they are slowed down where newer players aren't because of said reasons above.
I hope this is now clear. But correct me if I misunderstood you instead :)
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Thats an interesting idea, but if the killer uses corrupt intervention those first 5 gens will become 2. And if those 2 gens are close to eachother it'll be just like 3-gening survivors at the very beginning of the game. Which will most likely just make it into a long boring game of immersiveness until the Corr.Inte. time is up.
I think that by forcing one skillcheck every 10 or 8 secs (this will give a minimum of 8 or 10 skillchecks per gen. Of course, that's if you start the gen at zero.) and changing up the speeds the reticle goes at, (optional: adding skillchecks that dont have great zones) the game will force survs to actually adhere to the gens and not be there just holding down the repair button until a skillcheck appears when the gen is already at 90%... (i.e.)
It'll also be an automatic buff for Killer's skillcheck altering perks, powers and hexes.
And maybe, to "slow down" gen repairs a little. They can add a short 1 second animation to the survivors (similar to when they're unhooking someone) that makes them look both ways before kneeling to work on a generator. Ofcourse, the gen progression wont be affected until after that animation is done. This will discourage gen-tapping for avoiding ruin skillchecks and tapping to stop a gen's regression. (You know how Survivors tap gens while the killer is chasing them to both stop the regression AND taunt the killer, so something like this will reduce that kind of thing).
How does that sound?
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This suggestion is so flawed I don't even know where to start, honestly...
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Nope, that was my confusion. I was for general skill check shrinkage, while you are just for Great skillchecks. I think that could be a buff that works...
Would Ruin be effected by this?
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Instead of spawning, you could use the corrupt intervention effect with a different aura color (not white, because that can confuse killers who bring CI, maybe blue, since that's a color that hasn't been used yet, or orange, something else).
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@Raven014 Yes. As Hex Skillchecks are the same as Great Skillchecks they would. This is why powering through Ruin (aka ignoring the perk and just doing gens) would be ineffective at some point, because there wouldn't be Hex/Great Skillchecks anymore you could hit.
This would also cause Hex Ruin to lead to your ruin if you do not find it, as it should imo. Because it's the same for Hex Devour Hope. You can't find it fast after 3 tokens' Exposed Status? Well RIP.
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//my reply reuploaded itself, ignore this///
Post edited by Lametart on0 -
@White_Owl mine? How come? Please "start" SOMEwhere. You cant just say "thats bad" without explaining why. Cuz then I'll never see these "flaws" my suggestion has!
Plz!
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That makes sense.
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