All of Steve's perks are really bad while all of Nancy's perks are really good.
I mean I expected both survivors to have 1 good perk but it looks like all of Nancy's perks are good and all of Steve's perks are bad. Babysitter is just a trash version of Borrowed Time. Camaraderie will just be useless like 99% of the time. Kindred outperforms it in almost every way. Second Wind is pretty unique but its still bad for a couple reasons. 1. It lets the killer know you're running the perk so it encourages tunneling, especially since its the only way to counter the perk due to the fact that it resets when you go into the dying state and heals you only when you're outside of the terror radius. 2. I don't see why Bond isn't a better alternative to this perk since you can just search for a survivor and have them heal you instead and then work on a generator together afterwards. As for the reasons why Nancy's perks are good, its pretty self explanatory. It seems like Steve got the short end of the stick here so I feel kind of bad for the guy. The devs will probably buff his perks shortly before release but I'm doubtful since its BHVR.
Comments
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They are subject to change don't worry
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Devs said that the numbers and aspects of the perks are being fiddled with before the PTB even drops and then, based on feedback, after. Babysitter needs a 20 second increase at tier 3, Camaraderie needs to work during the first phase, and Second Wind needs to have the unhook requirement taken away.
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Second wind says hello.
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I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean but okay.
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They want you to buy the whole chapter, since majority of people really only want Steve and his Scoops Ahoy skin they gave all good perks to Nancy so you would buy her as well.
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Idk Babysitter sounds pretty good. Run it with Borrowed Time and We'll make it and that survivor is home free.
Second Wind sounds good for when you can't rely on others to heal you.
The other perk is just meh
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I'm saying Second Wind is good. You can be doing a gen and heal, which is 16+ seconds you would have wasted healing.
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It's good but it really needs to be tweaked so that you can use it more than twice.
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"Babysitter" is going to be a decent anti tunnel perk. No blood and no scratch marks sounds great on paper especially to counter the typical off the hook tunneling Spirit.
"Camaraderie" could be a decent anti camper perk if they increased the numbers. 14 seconds is not enough to punish campers. It needs to be half a hook stage (30 seconds) at tier 3 at the very least. Hopefully the devs make it so the perk icon pops up for every survivor once you're hooked similar to "Kindred" so solo players have a way to use the perk effectively.
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i disagree, Steve's perk are fun and i'm excited to try them out...Nancy..not so much, i don't care about my scratch marks as i can tell when to run and when to walk, i don't care about survs seeing what gen i'm working on and me seeing them....while they are hurt, and last but not least, i don't care about healing myself inside a closet lol
i prefer the heal Steve's got, his skills have more balls and that's my play style. i will main Nancy because i love her, but with Steve's perks.
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Steve's perks are meant, each and every one, to be parts of larger builds. They're not bad, they're just not cohesive. Nancy is meant to stand on her own: her perks aren't fantastic, but they're strong enough that a lot of people's regular gameplay supports their use.
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While I agree that Camaraderie and Babysitter are trashperks, Second Wind is actually good in concept, but currently unusable in its current iteration.
It's better than Bond because you can focus on being productive while healing rather than waisting your time running around looking for a teammate, and wasting their time to heal you.
They need to be careful with this perk, it'll make killers angry and result in more genrushing. It replaces MOM and stacks with Adrenaline, so it's got good potential for becoming a meta perk.
DS, Adrenaline, Second Wind and an Exhaustion Perk (Dead Hard, Lithe or BL).
Sounds pretty bad for killers to be honest.
On the other hand if you are BROKEN when you get unhooked then suddenly its usefulness disappears, because the killer will just tunnel you instead. It's like No Mither in this sense, you never get to heal yourself up because the killer knows you have No Mither right at the start of the game.
And you can't use it with Deliverance as Deliverance would prevent you from healing, so it actually works better with Slippery Meat -- and that is terrible.
Unless your team is good at unhooking and the killer isn't camping, this perk isn't going to be useful.
They are going to need to get this just right or else it either becomes like the next MoM, or the next No Mither.
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Okay so saving 16 seconds of time from healing makes this a good perk? Keep in mind that you need to heal another survivor fully before it can even activate and then you have to get unhooked and then after that you have to be out of the killer's terror radius for it to start healing. I mean all those steps just to save 16 seconds sounds like sh*t to me. Also I'm not sure if this is true or not but I believe this perk only works once which makes it even worse for such a mediocre effect.
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It really is. If all 4 Survivors run this perk, let's do some simple math.
4 Survivors x 16 saved seconds = 64
That's around 3/4 of a gen. And I'm still not done.
64 x 2, because it takes 2 Survivors to do a 16 second heal.
128 seconds is as much as a gen and a half. This isn't even taking into effect killer perks like Sloppy Butcher, Thanatophobia, or Clownphobia, which this perk ignores, saving even more time.
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I read: "Steve is really bad, and Nancy is really good."
And I agree.
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Yeah, 16 seconds does make this a good perk. 16 seconds is nearly a fourth of a generator from one person, nearly half in total because 16 seconds is the time it takes someone to heal a teammate - Self Care takes longer. These numbers are why there's currently an issue of a 'no heal meta' - and I'm not even talking about the 'no cleanse meta' around plague.
I agree that it's an issue to have it be so situational, like WGLF or Deliverance, but there's no indication that Second Wind only works once (Inner Strength is another perk people seem to falsely think is only activatable once) by the current notes we have.
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lol good luck getting all 4 survivors to use it. Also that logic applies to a lot of perks in the game as well. Every survivor running BT, DS, open handed, kindred, etc will obviously make it more effective but that doesn't mean the perk is good. Plus, if you have to rely on other survivors to use the same perk as you to make it viable, then its garbage. You're also forgetting the fact that the perk isn't guaranteed to work.
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Am I the only one that just doesn't get the point of Second Wind? You heal someone in order to be broken when you get off the hook and then the only way to heal is to stay out of the terror radius, what is the point of it?
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Using up a perk slot to save 16 seconds that isn't even guaranteed to work. Wow that's so useful. I'd argue that botany saves a bit more than 16 seconds as it works every time and you tend to heal survivors at least a few times per game.
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Fine then. One Survivor. Here.
16 second heal x 2 is 32. 32 seconds could be the difference between life or death. I'm sure you've been there before. Seconds after you down, the last gen barely missed your Adrenaline, costing you an escape.
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It takes 20 seconds for the perk to heal you at tier 3 so lets get that straight. As for it being the difference between life or death, there are a lot of perks that help you stay alive but do it way better. BT, DS, Adrenaline, any exhaustion perk, Bond, Spine Chill and so on. I've already stated the reason as to why Second Wind is trash so I'm not gonna repeat myself.
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It does take 20 seconds to heal you... But during that time you could be doing ANYTHING ELSE. Doing bones, doing gens, unhooking, healing other Survivors, it saves 16 seconds of your time and 16 seconds of another Survivor's time.
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That doesn't make sense, chapter are sell in bulk, you can't just buy steve even if you wanted to, it's not original content you can only buy it with cash not shards
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Struggle phase is good enough, baby sitter is fine, if the guy off the hook doesn't lully gaggle they can make the most out of the perk... baby sitter is beautiful imo..... second is fine as well, no unhook requirement would be bad design it would be next old self care only without having to do skill checks...
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I think the main problem with Second Wind is not that it does not have the potential to save a lot of time. Instead, the problem is that the perk is incredibly situational and promotes tunneling. The prerequisite is already somewhat high. That's fine, but it does not justify having the broken status effect, the perk not working in the killer's terror radius or its deactivation when downed.
I agree that while Camaraderie needs a rework. However, Babysitter is in a solid spot. It is not meant to be powerful, but instead courteous as it discourages tunneling. I think the only thing that would make it better is if it granted a post-game Bloodpoint bonus if the rescuer takes a protection hit or something similar.
Nancy's perks are not better, though. Better Together is nice to have, but I still would prefer Bond, considering it has a broader range. Fixated seems useless, and I don't think that Inner Strength will be that much more helpful. Considering it does not get nerfed within a week of its release, killers will start using builds that counter the perk.
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Auric cell
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I agree that Second Wind isn't that good. It looks good on paper, but I think in practice it won't be that great. You need a fully heal to activate this perk, so if you are the first one being chased and hooked, the perk won't do anything after your first hook and maybe even after the second one if you can't heal someone in that time or you get tunneled. Then, you are broken after you get unhooked, so if your unhooker has We'll Make It, you made his perk useless on you. Then you need to be outside of the terror radius for this perk to heal and that can be easy against stealth killers or impossible against giant terror radius Doctor. And all the killer needs to do is to down you before being able to heal which deactivates your perk. This perk seems to be even more situational than Deliverance or Unbreakable. The effect is cool, but it has too many restrictions attached to it for the perk to be effective.
I agree that Nancy's perks are better than Steve's perks.
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what? that's not what second wind does. It wastes 16 seconds of your time +16 seconds of your time for a chance to heal yourself when getting unhooked away from the killer. It's like Jane's buffed solidarity perk at 100% healing conversation rate with like way more conditions.
Here's perk description in case you haven't read it:
You have learnt to avoid awkward situations with parents. Part of you still thinks your best option is to run away and hope things will take care of themselves.
Heal a Survivor to activate Second Wind.
Once Second Wind is activated, when you get unhooked or unhook yourself, you are affected by the Broken Status Effect.
While outside of the Killer's Terror Radius, Second Wind passively heals you up to 100 % over a duration of 24/22/20 seconds.
Second Wind deactivates once you are completely healed or are put into the Dying State before the healing is completed.
You will lose the Broken Status Effect once Second Wind deactivates.
"Yeah, that's a no." — Steve Harrington
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A yeah, I forgot those existed
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second wind can actually ######### you on endgame if you had adrenaline and were on hook before last gen got done, thats a no no from me, id like it to be more of a if the killer stays X seconds around your hook at X meters , when you get saved you are in the healthy state instead of injured, itd make sense since his perks are all about countering camping/tunneling off hook
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I would rather buff Second Wind and have Camaraderie counter camping in a similar way to that.
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im ok with both getting better in any way, right now im only buying nancy if those perks dont change
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Babysitter doesn't discourage tunneling, BT does that. Babysitter just helps the unhooked survivor hide from the killer or lose track of them which is pointless because BT literally prevents you from going down and if a killer is closing in or camping them then there's no point in leaving no scratch marks or blood pools as they already know where the survivor is heading. I can see it being kind of useful against stealthy killers that makes BT difficult to trigger but not by much. Better Together allows every survivor to see the aura of the gen you are working on within 32 meters while Bond is only 4 meters more and only shows the aura of survivors to the person that's using it so comparing the two perks together just doesn't work. Fixated can be useful to lose the killer in certain loops and walking 20% faster can also come in handy in many situations. To put it simply, Fixated is kind of like Windows of Opportunity but with scratch marks and Urban Evasion but for walking combined as this perk can come in handy mid-chase or when you're trying to hide. As for Inner Strength, you can do some pretty sick plays with it by hiding in a locker mid chase and then have this activate but it's pretty difficult to do which is the downside but I'd say it's worth the risk.
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Better together fixes one issue with new survivors (I believe nancy has more of the new player perks anyway) three Gen Strat, if you see someone on a gen with this perk and you aren't more towards the middle you are running into the 3 gen
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Second wind is the perfect example of how devs create new survivor perks. They take a perk that could actually be useful, and add about 1000 conditions to make it super super situational to the point that it’s useless most of the time. Then wonder why survivor meta never changes.
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Eh, the only perks I care about from the Stranger Things DLC will be Fixated and Surge. That's all, really.
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You're right that Babysitter does not discourage tunneling. What I meant to say is that the perk discourages the killer from targeting the unhooked survivor instead of their rescuer. But I disagree with Bond and Better Together being non-comparable. They both are aura perks that function to unite survivors, or at the very least provide information about their location. Even though Bond presents this information to the user, and Better Together supplies it to others, they serve the same purpose in different ways. More importantly, the point I was trying to make was that I like the idea of Better Together, but it is not better than perks that are already available. As a result, I do not consider it a good perk, but you can think otherwise, and that's fine.
I still do not believe that fixated is going to be that helpful, although I think that is a unique perk. Seeing your scratch marks and walking faster are both nice gimmicks, but that does not make them powerful. Despite being a small detail, Could you explain the perk's connection to Windows of Opportunity? The two perks seem like training wheels for newer survivors, but I might be overlooking something that would relate them better.
I wouldn't doubt that it is possible to do some sick plays with Inner Strength. I don't think that it is practical in most chases because of the eight-second timer, but I agree that it can be useful when trying to hide. Using self-care to heal takes 32 seconds. Inner Strength should only take 22 seconds because cleansing a totem requires 14 seconds, and the actual healing process takes 8 seconds. But this is assuming that you can find a totem and a locker instantly. If the killer runs Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, it will take 20 seconds to cleanse the first totem and the total healing time would be 28 seconds. Even then, it still saves time for the survivor, and the perk will probably prevail because of that. But, I believe that it will not be as strong as what you would expect. It has a high chance that the developers will nerf it soon after its release. If that does not happen, killers will create builds to counter its effects. Iron Maiden will be used more to at least guide the killer in the direction of the healed survivor. If the killer runs Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, they will be notified early in the game where survivors are if one of them tries to complete the totem prerequisite.
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Because women rule the world, deal with it xD it's beautiful *evil witch cackle*
It's no coincidence, most of the top tier killers are female.
Nurse, Spirit, Hag, arguably plague.
Best Survivor perks: Laurie, Claudette, Meg.
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Lol with people running Babysitter, Make Your Choice is gonna be so easy to use when this chapter releases.
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Gr8 b8, m8, I r8 8/8.
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"You're right that Babysitter does not discourage tunneling. What I meant to say is that the perk discourages the killer from targeting the unhooked survivor instead of their rescuer." In other words, you meant it discourages tunneling.
I agree that Bond and Better Together can be compared to some extent since they both provide information to yourself and the other survivors. Better Together is better in that you can start a gen in the middle or on a gen that'll prevent the 3 gen strat and have others work on it with you. It also lets the survivor know that they shouldn't go towards a gen aura when being chased by the killer. Every time I'm about to finish a gen, which is usually at around 80-95% progression, a survivor brings the killer to me and goes down right next to it. They get hooked and then the killer kicks the gen with Pop Goes the Weasel. Now the progression goes down to like 50% and I have to do all that work again. Even then, the killer now knows the gen is almost done so they defend it to prevent me or any survivor from completing it. Also, being able to see every survivor after you complete a gen is pretty helpful in that it can let you know if you should do another gen or go for the hook save. Bond's range is only 4 meters more than Inner Strength so saying Bond is better in that aspect doesn't really matter since it's so minimal.
As for Fixated, I compared it to Windows of Opportunity because they both provide information on how to survive against the killer during a chase. Fixated can be used by itself or paired with Lightweight to help you manipulate the scratch marks, which could make the killer lose you during a chase. As for Windows of Opportunity, it's self explanatory. Walking 20% faster is good for the same reason as Urban Evasion. It helps you hide better by making you move around faster, which in turn, helps you change hiding spots when the killer is looking for you, and can enable you to lose the killer's line of sight around corners when your not producing scratch marks. I've also had moments where I run around the map but I know the killer is coming near my location so i start hiding. I continue to hide, thinking the scratch marks will go away by the time the killer comes close but I end up miscalculating it and get caught. In this situation, the perk will let me know if I should hide or just run away.
Inner Strength can be paired with Quick and Quit, Head On, or both to make it more efficient. Now saying the perk probably isn't going to be that good because it might be nerfed in the future is just speculation. Iron Maiden is just a garbage perk and I don't think it's a good counter to Inner Strength because the exposed effect is only 15 seconds long, which survivors can easily last before getting hit. Thrill of the Hunt is also a pretty bad counter since you're just wasting a perk slot to defend dull totems unless you're running another hex totem like Ruin or something but even then, it can easily be cleansed since most killers don't have that much map pressure.
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hey, survivors are getting 6 perks and killer's are getting 3. i honestly wouldn't complain if i was you.
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So I shouldn't complain if half of those 6 survivor perks are trash? Those 3 trash perks are Steve's at the moment which makes it even worse since I wouldn't want to unlock his teachables for the other survivors.
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Derp, what are you talking about? You stated in your first reply that Babysitter does not discourage tunneling. The reason why I agreed with you is because I consider tunneling when the killer goes after the unhooked survivor right after they get unhooked. Babysitter doesn't help with that but instead helps the unhooked survivor escape and highlights the rescuer, discouraging the killer from targeting them. Why are you trying to correct me after I agreed with your first criticism?
The Bond versus Better Together debate does not matter. I just stated in my original post that I do not think that Better Together is a strong perk because I prefer ones that already exist. Why are you so fixated on proving me wrong on a point that does not really matter?
On the topic regarding Fixated, I still do not see how a small increase to walking speed and the ability to see your scratch marks will significantly help in a chase. It improves the survivor's chances, but there are so many better perks for a survivor to take instead of Fixated. On a good note, I can understand your comparison to Windows of Opportunity more.
I get what you are saying about Inner Strength. I do not think that it synergizes well with Quick and Quiet or Head On because they both work best in a chase. You are right about the speculation, but the likeness of it happening is the reason why I pointed it out. I also mentioned Iron Maiden and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt because they help the killer know where the survivor is if they try and use Inner Strength.
I'm sorry if this post sounds defensive or somehow aggressive, but I am just really fed up with the Dbd forums and the community. It's annoying to try and help others through steam discussions or the Dbd forums and end up receiving aggressive responses. The conversation goes from a discussion to a contest of who can prove the other person wrong. It's not specifically this thread, but a combination of different examples, like having random people commenting on my steam profile about how I am wrong about a topic. How do other people deal with the toxicity of this community?
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I'm not sure how I came off as offensive in my post but if you were offended by it then that wasn't my intentions at all so relax.
You agreed with me but you followed it up by saying, "What I meant was that the perk discourages the killer from tunneling the unhooked survivor rather than going for the rescuer", which is contradicting. Keep in mind, I said Borrowed Time does that, not Babysitter, since the killer can still tunnel the unhooked survivor when he isn't leaving scratch marks or blood pools.
The Bond versus Better Together debate does matter because it isn't a matter of opinion. Just because you prefer other perks over it doesn't mean it's garbage, its just not suited for your play style. If someone said Balanced Landing or Adrenaline is terrible, you wouldn't say anything? I mean why else would those perks be meta while others aren't being used at all. If it all boiled down to opinions, then I can say Wake Up is really good and you'd have to respect that.
If you think there are perks that are better than Fixated then I would like to know what they are since I don't see any.
Inner Strength synergizes well with Quick and Quiet and Head On because it allows the perk to be used in a chase as well. You use Quick and Quiet to lose the killer mid-chase, wait for the killer to come towards your locker, and hit them with Head On. It will most likely take the killer over 8 seconds to figure out where you are so Inner Strength should've activated by then. After the killer gets stunned, they now have to chase a healthy survivor. As for Thrill of the Hunt and Iron Maiden, they're still trash perks unless used in a gimmicky build and both counters to Inner Strength aren't that good.
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Thrill of the Hunt doesn't give a notification on full totems, just Hexes.
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Comraderie won’t be used by solo’s but will be abused to hell and back by SWF who will take turns triggering it for 14 extra seconds. 10 extra seconds of Gen Rushing, 40 total which is half a Gen.
Inner Strength and Second Wind will be meta to enhance healing efficiency.
All the developers did was buff the Gen Rush meta.
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A Mori or a harrassment report either work and if one doesn't I'll use the other that's how I deal with this community
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I'm confused at your math. 14 seconds to 10 seconds to 40 seconds? I don't see how Camaraderie will be abused by swf as a survivor has to be within 16m for it to trigger which means 1 less survivor doing a gen so that isn't buffing gen rush at all, it's doing the opposite.
I doubt Inner Strength and Second Wind are gonna be meta considering there's too many prerequisites for them to work. Also, Inner Strength will probably only work once or twice, since there's only 5 totems and 4 survivors in a match so I think it's fine. As for Second Wind, I don't want to go over it again. Like what someone said earlier, it looks good on paper but in practice, it's garbage. I think it has a lot of potential to be a good perk but it really needs a huge buff for it to be viable in the current meta.
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I should've mentioned the terrible 4 second Object of Obsession effect from Babysitter as it can definitely screw up the user in certain situations. Some people have mentioned that this can be pretty good if paired with BT but Babysitter would still be trash because if BT activates, then the killer is already close by or just camping, rendering it useless. Also, the killer can still track the unhooked survivor with Babysitter active by the loud groans they make while injured.
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