EGC should ONLY activate when an exit gate is opened, not when the hatch is closed
![[Deleted User]](https://forums.bhvr.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
Comments
-
I'm getting Deja Vu with this post.
(Literally)
8 -
If you outplayed the killer you wouldn't be in that situation...Gens didn't get done, no gates opened and hatch was closed by the killer.
Killer deserves to have you in a tough situation after all of that...
Survivor finds hatch first? Survivor escapes.
Killer finds hatch first? Killer has to guard 2 gates for a couple minutes to 4k.
Sounds fair to me.
38 -
Honestly, the extra pressure speeds up the endgame stand off. If you were tracking in any way, EGC is a death sentence for the last survivor if the hatch is closed.
4 -
So what you're saying is that you want to trade one free escape (hatch) for a different free escape (open door).
If you're in EGC as the last survivor, your team screwed up. There is no asymetrical multiplayer game were a 1v1 should be realistically possible. If you can 1v1 the killer easily, why is it a 4v1 game?
14 -
That sort of goes against the point of the EGC.
But I agree. We need a perk "Honorable Seppuku" - Hurt yourself.
Or make this baseline. I have long wanted a perk like this.
2 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
I'd also like to underline this fact.
The game is a 4v1, but that doesn't mean that the game only works for survivors if all 4 play perfectly. It's significantly harder for all 4 players to work perfectly than for just 1 player to play perfectly.
I just want to bring this up so that killers at red ranks can lay off on the part where being outplayed by 4 survivors is a problem. It's not. If all 4 played their roles perfectly they deserve to get the upper hand over the killer.
At no time should a 1v1 in an asymmetrical game be an even match. It really should be harder for the survivors. And it is. And that is fine.
5 -
"If there was no timer then the last survivor can out play the killer to escape"
...Thats part of the problem. If the game is balanced around a 4v1, then a 1v1 should not be realistically possible. Your chances of 1v1ing a killer should be way lower than your chances of opening a gate during EGC.
If there's no timer. The killer patrols the last 3 gens for the end of eternity. You can literally hide in the corner and hold the game hostage, or the killer can find you, stay close enough to make sure you can't do anything, and also hold the game hostage.
The time is there to make sure that neither side can do that.
Once you're the last one left, its literally a race to find the hatch. Find it first. Use those sweet looping skills to loop the killer as you search.
Once the hatch is closed, use those sweet stealth skill to open a gate. If you cant complete 5 gens, find the hatch first, or get a gate open. You lost. No 4th chances
4 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.3
-
Its still possible. It happens probably 1 out of 5 games for me, and those odds are higher than they should be tbh. If its 1v1, survivor should have like a 1% chance.
Opening a gate takes 20 seconds. EGC is 2 minutes, I regularly see 2-3 gens pop in 2 minutes. If you can't do a gate, then practice
2 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.2
-
No.
The hatch closing triggering the gate is perfect. Survivors had dibs on the hatch for over 2 years.
Now the hatch play is fair, and maybe slightly killer sided, but not by much. It's fine the way it is.
The 5th gen popping should create the EGC in my opinion... right? ;)
I think the EGC is fine the way it is.
4 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.1
-
A timer is literally the only way to ensure that neither side holds the game hostage. If your post was about extending the timer, then we could have a discussion. But the game needs a definite "Do this in X amount of time or you lose".
3 -
Wrong. I play solo survivor like 80% of the time. Or more. There's no a chance to get a hatch you/me don't deserve by doing 0 or 1 gens.
And keys still unlock it. It's fine man. Stop crying over something that is actually healthy for the game.
0 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.2
-
Then we would have survivors holding the game hostage all over again. No thanks.
3 -
The user and all related content has been deleted.3
-
I could agree with a 3 minute EGC timer if it didn't slow down while survivors were downed or hooked.
5 -
Then noone would risk to save someone and you as killer would not have the potential to down more survivors. It's a lose-lose situation.
0 -
They tried this with the first hatch closing PTB, and Survivors held the game hostage when the hatch got closed.
0 -
2 minutes is plenty of time if you play smart
unless you get the side by side gates in which case you probably lose but that is rng
the same way the opposite side gate spawns is practically an auto escape
1 -
That defeats the purpose of EGC. If the killer closes the hatch they patrol Exit Gate to Exit Gate. If the survivor times it well they have a decent chance of getting the gate open.
So lets UNDO the take the game hostage benefit EGC has and REINSTATE IT LOL. If the survivor can simply just stay way the hell away from the gate. They can force the killer to compromise their position until the survivor can open the gate. HELLO AGAIN long drawn out matches because a survivor with no chance refuses to do anything. I've come to play with youa gain!
1 -
Get Help...
4 -
In that situation it'd be possible to hold the game hostage. No.
4 -
They need to look into the Distance between the Gates to each other and the distance between the Gates and the Hatch.
If EGC would not start when the Hatch is closed, there would be even less chance as a Survivor (Hatch closing is 100% Killer-sided, Killer is more likely to find it first, due to higher MS and no need to hide from anything), because then Gens would need to be done, and depending on the Number or Location of those, this might be really hard to pull-off, if not impossible.
Furthermore, it would not prevent anyone from just stealthing around the whole time. If the last Survivor decides to not do anything, the game will never end. And in the end, thats what EGC is for.
0 -
EGC starts when the hatch closes so we don't have the classic "survivor hides around the edge of the map for 40 minutes while the killer frantically runs around like a maniac trying to find them before they escape" that we had before EGC and hatch closing were a thing
1 -
I admit I am biased to the idea that EGC trigger on hatch close is fine but maybe it could be improved by The Killer not being able to see the doors anymore so the survivor can realistically open the door?
0 -
That's not really an option. If the EGC does not start, you have as much time as you want. That basically means waiting until the killer gives up, especially in instances where the killer can see both gates from a single point. This is the exact sort of thing the EGC was meant to fix.
If that happens, you, as the survivor:
- Have failed to power the exit gates.
- Have failed to find the hatch first.
- Have failed to open the gates before the collapse ends.
It's meant to be incredibly hard at that point, you already had multiple chances to escape and failed.
32 -
@Peanits you mentioned the biggest problem. Tgough I agree with your statement, the problem is that the gates do spawn that close together. It should never happen. I can't tell you how many times I've stood on a hill or a combine with a trap on each door and a clear site of both. No survivor stands a chance at all when that happens.
If the developers are too lazy to fix that issue, then give the survivor a concede button. Seriously, it is boring to stand there knowing the survivor will stay hidden and wait out EGC timer. Maybe campers enjoy it, but most of us prefer to be engaged in gameplay.
1 -
Nope, nope, nope, 20 more nopes
This will result in the survivor holding the game hostage again
And increasing the timer to 3 or 4 minutes will not matter
EGC is fine how it is and implies pressure and panic
5 -
I remember a similar situation to the one your describing in which I was using whispers to insure the survivor couldn't POSSIBLY sneak to an exit gate without me knowing. I remember feeling pretty smug about my cleverness too...They then opened hatch with a key they found...
Point being, just because the gates are close, doesn't mean escape is impossible.
0 -
What about balancing the Exit Gates spawning locations?
1. Killers don't like it when Hex Totems can spawn next to a generator, and you, the developers, are looking into better totem locations as a result. Great job, this is perfect!
2. Survivors don't like it when the killer can keep both Exit Gates within their LoS, which is arguably more unfair than the first scenario. It can also go both ways — with both Exit Gates being impossible to patrol.
Why am I bringing up both scenarios? Because they both have one thing in common, bad positioning. Both sides should have a fair chance, your skill shouldn't be limited to RNG, never.
I understand you want some things to be randomized, and I know the killer should have the advantage, but it shouldn't be a free 4K/escape, literally (I.E. Killer sees both Exit Gates, killer can't patrol both Exit Gates, and so on).
Do you have any plans to change Exit Gates spawning rules? :)
0 -
There's only so much you can do. Maps are procedurally generated.
To give an example, say you spawn the gates on opposite walls. That's great, but if I can see both gates and the map is small enough, you'll have the same problem.
So then you might say, "Well add a LOS check between the two gates." Which is great and all, but that only checks between the two gates. That doesn't take into account every possible position on the map and whether or not you can stand at a specific point to see both gates.
I've even had a game recently where the gates spawned on opposite walls with plenty of LOS blockers in the way, but I could still use the lodge to see over them and watch both gates.
There are things we could try to do, but in the end, there's always going to be situations like that.
8 -
Wow the level of entitlement is high with this one, i sucked the whole match and i should get away for free. You lost, accept it and move onto the next game. Btw I'm a level 10 survivor and i escape more often than not during egc unless of course the exits are next to each other.
2 -
What's stopping the final survivor from holding the match hostage by hiding in a locker if there is no timer to put pressure on them?
2 -
True enough. I do think there needs to be a concede button for those situations though.
1 -
If the EGC did not activate when the Hatch is closed, you'd go back to pre-EGC days; a Survivor would hide and dodge the Killer for literal hours, trying to force the Killer to quit.
EGC is fine. It's meant to be Killer-sided if he closes it.
..Kind of like how it's Survivor-sided if you find it first; he can't yank you out of it like the old format.
0 -
Devs dont care a lot of people hate it. Its intended to be a screw job. This mentality is why fewer people even bother with playing survivor.
1 -
Or..and this might sound crazy..There was LOGIC to the EGC?
I know, I know; it completely thrashes your 'Devs don't care' or 'Devs hate Survivors' narritive..
But before the EGC, Survivors would spend actual HOURS hiding on maps, forcing the Killer to suck a DC & lose all his earned BP.
The OP wants to go back to those heady days of holding games hostage & abusing Killers. Which would be bad.
The hatch is fair:
If you find it first; you escape. The Killer cannot stop this.
If the Killer finds it first; you're probably screwed, but can still possibly open a gate.
Hell, that makes it sound like Survivors are STILL given another chance where Killers are not.
So much for a 'screw job'.
2 -
I don't mind the EGC timer. I just have a problem with No One Escapes Death and Rancor activating from a hatch close.
If NOED punishes survivors who rush their primary objective and neglect their secondary then it should not activate from the hatch being closed.
The exposed status means that I cannot finish opening a gate that was at 99% when first hit. The killer's move speed bonus means the killer can patrol both gates faster.
Because of EGC's mechanics, I have to run Wake Up! and Small Game in my loadout, and have to 100% prioritize finding ALL 5 totems first.
1 -
If you want the game to go forever, sire.
0 -
No. Bad enough that the hatch exists.
0 -
The dev hath spoken, and said exactly what everybody has been telling you my guy. Time to move on.
0 -
It should be possible to do a LoS check from the 2 gates to ensure that there are no spots where LoS overlaps from both gates.
But I can imagine that would increase load times by a lot.
1 -
Dude. You have TWO ESCAPES:
The hatch if you find it first. The Killer can't even stop you if he gets there a second late.
The doors if the Killer closes the hatch.
The Killer does not get any sort of safety net; if you leave via hatch or door, you're gone.
I love how people blame the game, or balance, or 'the Devs are biased against Survivors!' when the Survivors get TWO chances to leave and the Killers get ONE chance to stop them. 🤔
0 -
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
Posts like these perfectly illustrate how the community mindset is not on a 4v1 asymmetrical horror game, but a 1v1+1+1+1.
Survivors believe they should be able to contest, deal with and overcome the killer on an individual basis, no teamwork necessary.
@DeadByMoonlight if your team got sacrificed before the exit gates were opened, you lose.
Getting to the hatch first is your one last hope to survive, if you fail at this, you will most likely die; as you should.
Get over it and move on to the next game.
0 -
You're halfways right. The survivor mindset IS that it is indeed a team or group game (only 50% pure 4 random trials )
"All 4 must escape" "blind altruism" "nothing wrong with swf and cwf although it wrecks the balance".
But then they want the safety net (or horrendous imbalance factor) of being strong enough to solo the killer when they fail as a team.
Those people want the advantages associated with of both types of gameplay.
- 4 randoms need to be mechanically stronger (game mechanics)
- A team that gets coordination and communication.
Currently theyre having both and it's showing
0 -
when the gates spawn right next to each other. When the hatch spawns RIGHT in front of a gate, I ask myself why even bother at that point?
As a killer I find it a bit silly. So I often let the survivor open the gate because it is beyond unfair at times.
As a survivor I find that no amount of luck is going to give enough time to open one of two gates which are virtually so close to each other.
Dont get me wrong I appreciate the EGC, but this is the piece (gates distance + hatch spawn) I think you guys should revisit.
Post edited by Johnny_XMan on0 -
It's actually a hopeless mechanic for the Survivor. The Killers hand is held throughout the entire process, they permanently see the aura of both exit gates and can see the progress invested in those Gates. There's also no incentive for the killer to seek you out, all they have to do is Patrol the two exit gates and when they see the red light they know you're doomed. At that point they just need to protect that one exit because there's not enough time for you to open the other. Would it be asking for too much for the killer to have to memorize the two locations like survivors do?
1
