The Plague: To Cleanse or Not to Cleanse?
So I've run into what seems to be a bit of a hot topic when playing SWF against Plague recently. Specifically, whether or not to cleanse. Everyone seems to have some strong opinions on it, and usually they fall into one of two camps: "You should always cleanse whenever possible" and "You should never ever cleanse against Plague what the hell do you think you're doing".
I tend to fall into the former camp, based partly on things I've read or heard and partly on my own experience. In my view, being infected is very difficult to deal with, not only because of the broken status effect but because it ruins stealth builds, making perks like Iron Will (one of my favourites) pretty much useless. Add that to the (admittedly slim) possibility of the killer having the Black Incense add-on (which, for those of you who don't know, reveals survivors' auras whenever they vomit, which they do quite often when infected) and Vile Purge, in my opinion, becomes much more dificult to deal with than what basically amounts to a ranged attack. Corrupt Purge doesn't infect you, and doesn't insta-down you. To me, it seems comparable to a slightly more powerful hatchet, and can be dodged in a similar way by breaking LOS.
However.
I have a friend who believes very strongly that you should never cleanse against Plague. He says that being injured/infected is not that bad, whereas the threat posed by Corrupt Purge and the difficulty of evading it means that activating it should be avoided at all costs. He tends towards a more aggro playing style and his main strength, and the strength of his typical build, is in chases and looping. For a non-stealth character who is good at dodging the killer while injured, Vile Purge is quite possibly preferable to Corrupt Purge. For stealth characters, whose builds or skillsets may not favour chases and for whom the vomiting and coughing noises could be detrimental, cleansing is necessary and in some ways Corrupt Purge serves as a respite more than anything else.
In other words, it seems to me that whether or not it's a good idea to cleanse against Plague depends mostly on your build and playstyle, but it's entirely possible there's something either my friend or I am missing that would tip the balance either way.
I'd be very interested to hear everyone's thoughts on this debate, and feel free to point out anything I might not have taken into account above.
TL;DR There are advantages and disadvantages to both cleansing and not cleansing, and which one is preferable seems to depend mostly on your build. Thoughts?
Comments
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No cleansing. Never. Only after all gens popped. But even that is situational and you shouldn't just cleanse headless. Cleanse far away from the gates.
Cleansing just gives Plague a huge powerup and you get infected anyway within 1-2 minutes. Also, it needs just 1 single 4head in your team cleansing the whole time while the other 3 stay injured and it's gg for the killer. The team will most likely not recover from that.
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Don’t cleanse, unless your mates cleanse but even then it isn’t entirely needed.
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The only time I cleanse is if I'm about to be chased.
God I love spine chill :)))
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Borrowed Time
I see what you did there 😏
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don't cleanse. If no one cleanses, you are simply playing injured all game. That may SOUND bad, but once you realize Plague is super tall and has a hard time mindgaming any loops. you will quickly find out that she's not so special at all.
The Plague is a reminder than no matter how outrageous you make a power (unlimited Huntress hatchets that are undodgeable), they cannot be overpowered if you make the survivors have agency over that power. The Plague needs to ask survivors permission to use her lethal power - if no one cleanses, she is simply a loopable killer than can barely mindgame tiles.
Long story short, don't give her her power and you'll win every time. Git gud at looping, and you'll eat plague for breakfast. She's godlike under rank 10 but once you get past it where survivors know how to loop, she's a paperweight. She's useless.
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@justarandy I'm interested to know why you consider it a huge powerup. As I mentioned above, I've found it to be more of a respite from constant infection, because it just feels like playing against a buffed Huntress for the next minute. The other thing I forgot to mention is the mechanic where if all fountains become corrupt, they automatically get purified again, so if everyone is cleansing that might even be a good thing.
Not saying you're wrong, just wondering what your reasoning is for why Corrupt Purge should be avoided.
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I run Brutal Strength on her - I know what you mean - but I feel like that playstyle is really dependent on the map to make or break it. I understand you want to get survivors to drop pallets ASAP with mindgames to ensure that gens sit in "dead zones" they can't trespass upon, but the big issues becomes a time, which not even a plague has. I feel like a Broken Survivor is just as potent as an full health one in terms of looping, and your time wasted is your time wasted no matter what vs a good survivor team that is coordinated. Thus, I think all survivors should never cleanse vs plague until the exit gates, where her purge simple speeds them to escapes, because in the end, she's as loopable as Ghostface.
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@DudeDelicious But isn't it a good idea to always assume a killer is competent until proven otherwise? So if you should only cleanse against a good Plague, you should cleanse by default unless you realise you're up against one that's not good?
@savevatznick As I mentioned, I feel like it depends entirely on your build/playstyle/skills whether that strategy is a good idea or not. For people that are good at looping, who run exhaustion perks or aggressive builds, not cleansing at all is a great strategy. But for people whose playing style and builds rely heavily on stealth and not being found in the first place, being infected is a death sentence. It just sucks that whichever you choose, you tend to screw over anyone trying to do the opposite.
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Experience from playing and versing her. It's the current meta against Plague till devs change or rework how that mechanic works. Once you verse a p3 Plague main you will regret it very fast to cleanse. They will punish the survivors very hard for that.
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Your playstyle doesn't matter when Stealth barely works in the higher ranks. A good killer knows how to optimally scan things to the point that stealth isn't even worth it. That, combined with being fully infected (you are LOUD AND MAKE PUKING NOISES ALL THE TIME) negating stealth, means stealth vs plague isn't an option. She forces survivors to stop hiding and loop while injured, which is powerful until you hit the point where survivors know how to loop and can waste enough of Plague's time that it doesn't matter if they were injured or not.
Her power is simply a skill check until survivors cleanse. Nothing more. She's still loopable and loops consume too much of her time to be viable.
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@savevatznick I see your point, but that's assuming that everyone plays or even wants to play at top ranks. At middle or lower ranks, where stealth builds are viable, perhaps cleansing could be a viable strategy for those players? I deliberately don't play a lot at top ranks, so I don't know much about how things work there, but I suspect that, as DudeDelicious mentioned above, Corrupt Purge is not as powerful as it's made out to be.
In fact, it seems like more of a counter to loops, which I guess was the point I was trying to make originally. There appear to be two main options: don't cleanse and loop instead, or stealth, cleanse to keep your stealth, and try to avoid chases. Perhaps, as you say, the latter is not really viable at top ranks, but I feel like either could be an option if you're playing more casually.
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I have a lot of hours on Plague. There's no cut and dry answer here. Can you cleanse in a dead area near completed objectives? Giving her Corrupt Purge isn't the worst thing in the world. She slows down TREMENDOUSLY when charging it and holding it. She'll have a very difficult time hitting it at a jungle gym or L wall/T wall if you play it right. It can also depend on the map. Do you have lots of LOS breakers and high walls?
TLDR: context is everything. No right answer.
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@edgarpoop Thanks for your input. That's more or less the conclusion I've come to as well, that Corrupt Purge is not as bad as people make it out to be, but whether or not it's a good idea to cleanse depends very much on how you're playing, how the killer is playing, and what's going on in the game at that moment.
Because I don't see Corrupt Purge as being that terrible, I tend to cleanse whenever I can so I can stop vomiting and keep being sneaky, but try to do so in an out-of-the-way spot. I'm just trying to figure out if that's a bigger mistake than I realise and if so, why.
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Unless you would like to give the killer a machine gun, do not cleanse AT ALL. Even if all the gens are popped, do not cleanse.
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Corrupt Purge is immensely powerful, and while good Survivors can mitigate it, it's too powerful to be taken for granted. The Plague is unbalanceable in her current state because the guaranteed injure of Corrupt Purge is too powerful to give her for free - so it's locked behind Survivors' actions.
The issue is that her Vile Purge stage is just an M1 killer who can expose you over time. Being one-shot isn't a big deal to survivors who can loop, because if they're good at looping, they can do whatever they want in the time they needed and waste your time as killer. The Vile PLague poses no threat because she just perma-injures survivors, narrowing the window of making mistakes, but still enabling Dead Hard and allowing survivors to make a rodeo clown out of her. She can be looped, her time can be wasted - at higher ranks, looping her is the same Broken as it is healthy. She's neutered.
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I wouldn't call it a guaranteed injure, though. I do not consider myself a good survivor, probably just above average, and it's possible that I've come up against a bunch of really bad Plagues, but as I mentioned above, I find that CP is dodgable a fair amount of the time just by taking cover when she uses it. It also gives me pause that the two self-declared Plague mains on this thread are both claiming that it's not as powerful as is generally believed.
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If you do cleanse you are letting plague get to her full potential which can be scarier than most killers other than Nurse when on the right map. If you don't cleanse you basically get to run no mither. Take your pick, either way you are gonna have to learn to...
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As a Plague main I echo some of the things that have already been said.
With that being said, IF, you are going to cleanse know your location. Cleanse as far from the killer as possible and where gens have already been done... map awareness comes in handy.
Also, don’t be one of those people who cleanse but immediately go to a hook to get sick again, let someone else who is sick unhook. (If possible of course)
Basically be smart about both, because sometimes either can save your game. People who tell you not to cleanse are generally right, but at the same time keep in mind every match calls for something different because not all Plagues are good/bad.
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Don't cleanse, the safest thing you can do is stay infected and handle being one shot.
It's for your own good and your team. It's damned if you do, damned if you do. But more damned if you do.
One session of Corrupt Purge can mow down the entire team easily if they are all infected.
In my opinion, cleansing is a selfish action that can borderline sabotage your team if they are making the effort to not cleanse to deny Corruption and smash out gens.
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The points you made do point to a trend, what is good for one play style is bad for another so the only agreement that can be made is based on the Killer's skill.
DudeDelicious up there might have the best answer in this regard because it adds in the 3rd part to the conundrum, the Plague herself meaning the Killer.
There will never be a 100% agreement because some players will always have a problem with her ability and others won't. I myself don't know which I prefer, I don't mind being injured if everyone is distracting her but if everyone is going down and I need to look out for myself then I'll cleanse. I can loop her like anyone else but if I'm injured then that Corrupt might get me, maybe.
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If you have a team of players who are decent at looping, don't cleanse.
If you tend to go down fast, but you are decent at being stealthy and your teammates cleanse, then cleanse.
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See, this is why I LOVE playing as Plague, and LOVE playing against her: it completely changes normal “muscle memory” chase strategies.
Is corrupt OP? No, but I personally would rate it as the 3rd strongest killer ability (behind blinks and phase walking).
The people that say never cleanse just have a hard time adapting to the playstyle. You can’t just run a simple loop without high walls and survive it, so it limits the chase options that we are programmed to do. If you are initialized in a chase, you typically have a route all planned up for when she gets to your location, but with Plague, many of those options are tremendously weaker if she’s using Corrupt.
If you choose not to cleanse, you will have these escape options, but can afford less hits. This still changes the mindset of a survivor though: knowing they can take only 1 hit, they won’t go for pallet stuns, most drop pallets too early. Being 1 hit makes them more exposed (pun intended) and a bit reckless.
It’s a free choice, situational circumstances cannot be overlooked.
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Like groot said I don't cleanse, go entire matches puking all over the place (btw I play stealth and it doesn't hinder my play style all that much) only time I will cleanse is if everyone is doing it for the simple fact once all the pools are infected they revert (however if I'm not mistaken this gives her her corrupt anyway). Other than that I will do it between the time the second to last gen pops and when Im SB out the door
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If you want to cleanse yourself, first do the gens in a side of the map and then cleanse in this side. If possible far from the doors.
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Two Occasions where I cleanse:
After Gens are done, as far away from the Gates as possible
When there is onle 1 Pool left so that she does get Corruption automatically but cannot use her Pools anymore
Other than that, I prefer to stay injured. I mean, sure, you are Onehit the whole game, but I feel the Damage is bigger when she gets corruption. I think a Plague with Corruption can down a healthy Survivor faster than a Plague without Corruption vs an Injured Survivor.
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As a side note, I've also heard people say that CP is one-hit down, which is not true. It does make me wonder whether general misconceptions like this about how her power works are contributing to the idea that CP = gg.
Post edited by Fibijean on0 -
Oh? My mistake, I should have checked that first. I'll delete the original comment to avoid confusion.
... And by delete I mean edit, since apparently you can't delete comments.
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If you get a complete full stream on someone it is an insta down in CP like how a full stream in VP is an insta break.
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But it doesn't down you as soon as it hits you, which is what the word "instant" implies. A full stream takes several seconds, if a survivor can't dodge or find cover in that time then maybe they deserve to go down.
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She doesn't get unlimited Corrupt, she gets it just for 1 minute.
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If the killer is good in chasing, non-cleaning often ends like this:
So that, my answer, according to the situation.
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