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How spirit affects the game and why there should more of this
Before shatter bloodline came to the game there was the tired meta perk trend and yes to an extent that trend still exists but there is talk of how certain perks are "required" (this is false theres plenty that you can do against spirit to win a chase) to go against Rin..... this is a good thing for the game imo
This is the type of effect that the devs want for all the killers, they want players to think "well what if it's this killer, maybe I should bring this perk" .... but that's not the case........ most times you bring the big 3 (BT, adrenaline, DS) and an exhaustion perk and you're set!!! doesnt matter the killer (asides nurse)....
I give props to the devs....
And happy bday Rin <3
Comments
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Needing a specific perk to counter a Killers Power is not a good thing to strive for, and you should know that. It's bad design, UNLESS you know upfront which killer you're going to face (which is not the case).
Also, the Meta exists for both sides. Look at the Perks that are used in high ranks by Killers. There's not so much variation as well. Occasionally there's somebody trying a new build (kudos to everyone who does that!), but an awful lot of times you see standard builds containing: BBQ, Ruin (both I consider them to be the gold standard). Let's not forget fun combinations like Enduring + Spirit Fury (those Pallets! REEEE), Sloppy Butcher or NOED.
Killers slap on those perk builds without much thought, and they can, because it simply doesn't require much thought (and honestly that's completly fine!).
To sum it up:
1) The way spirit affected and still affects the game is not good at all, and to me it means that there should definitely not be "more of this".
2) Meta Perks are fine, they exist on both sides. Yes, they don't require much thought, on both sides.
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You dont even require a perk to vs her..its a misconception spelled out by players who dont take the time to vs her..now iron will, qaq, and similar perks make her much easier but your no more required to run anything vs her than you are vs trapper..she is however a fantastic killer that shifts up the chase instead of the same boring routine
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I say required because that's how you and other survivors feel.... the main point is that she makes players think about her when they queue, which is a good thing, more killers should do this but let's face it.... no one is threatened by a wraith or doctor unless you just started playing the game.... it's a way changing the tired meta and getting other perks in the mix which are still powerful.
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Affects, not effects
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@immortalls96 I only say "required" because that's how certain players think it is with Rin.... I'll edit my post so other dont think that I feel the sameway...
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@RakimSockem fixed lol
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Fair enough I meant no disrespect
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more of killers like spirit (offering no counterplay in a game of equally skilled players except in the form of perks) would kill this game for me
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Theres plenty of counterplay when going against spirit dude.
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I also think that this chapter was the best yet. Not only because Spirit is a great killer, but also because of her perks. Spirit Fury is probably the greatest killer addition in recent history, absolute meta worthy, yet not unfair. Haunted Grounds a viable alternative that's also great for pure hex builds. Rancor is controversial, but at least it's interesting and not just forgettable. This chapter's perks did so much for killer build variety. Combined with Spirit herself, that's the best chapter for the killer side imo. I wish we'd get more chapters that are this well designed and impactful.
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The chapter was a love note indeed to killers yes but also to the whole community.... I mean a perk that allows you to kobe?....I agree it's one of the best chapters they've done...
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Hoping that Spirit player is deaf/bad is the only thing you can do in red ranks . Stop this bs about how fair and 'counterable' she is . Rin is a braindead version of Nurse . Instead of hundreds hours of practice you need only like 10 to master her , and working headphones ofc .
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Its not BS what I say... saying there is no "counterplay" in a killer who is 1. Countered hard by stealth, 2. Is mind game able and 3. Punished hard for messing up with a cooldown is such bs its ridiculous.
The only killer that's came out of Bhvr that had no counterplay was pre nerf legion.... didnt matter if they missed an attack or were the worst chasers is in the game... you were down no matter what if legion got you with FF, that's not the case with spirit.
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When you think of running a autodidact healing build you are thinking that it will be really good against a sloppy thano Legion but it won't be as useful against a Plague. I think this is how thinking of what perks you use should be, so I agree that surivors should be thinking about the killers when picking perks verses running bt, ds, adrenaline, dead hard, etc that are good against every killer. But spirit does this in the worst way possible, with spirit if you don't have iron will you will die. Its not a situation were the perk is helpful but its needed. This makes for moments were you load into a spirit match and you don't have iron will and you are now at a gigantic disadvantage. I think that perk and killer variety is a good thing but spirit isn't the example we should be following for this.
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Why do I lose frequently with this killer? That's not allowed.
I am entitled to my escape, do not give me this difficult killer. Gimme the easy stuff or this game is isn't fun and boring so I'm uninstalling.
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Any time you could avoid a hit with iron will you can avoid that same hit by avoiding the previous hit as well.
Obviously you will eventually take a hit, but you can stall it out long enough to still have a reasonably long chase and depending on if there is a pallet/window nearby you may be able to stall it out even while injured without iron will.
Simply having a pallet between you and the Spirit and a loop longer than like 1-2 metersish lets you mindgame her if she tries to phase no matter what perks either of you are running even if you are injured.
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You're supposed to be at a disadvantage... at times players seem to forget this is 4v1 if the spirit is chasing you... 3 other people should be doing gens.... IW is not required, I've escaped perkless vs spirits... shes just like most characters if a players bad with her you'll have an easy, if a player has a ton of hours into her your chances of survival are low...
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More like if they are playing out of there tv speaker you'll have it easy, if a player has spent a ton of money into a headset your chances of survival are low...
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As a great Spirit, you need IW to vs her. If you don't then you are screwed.
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Nah..I've tried both ways and lacking iron will is not an instant down..foolish thinking
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I'm just gonna quietly note that all these posts about needing Iron Will to vs spirit are silly. I've stomped her with and without it, it's all about knowing how to run and bait her. You want her power on cooldown as much as possible. Tricking her into using it and then losing you for a few seconds turns her into a basic ######### M1 killer with Huntress movement speed.
Only time she genuinely feels unfair is when she's running prayer beads (and, occasionally, that bleeding addon. That damn thing is so underrated by spirit players despite the fact that it ensures you never lose a surv that's injured, ever)
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Exactly this /\ it's so satisfying when outplaying them because you're rewarded with with the easiest killer to loop cor a period of time.... the devs did outstanding with spirit.. I do agree that they need to do something with prayer beeds..
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You can literally just stand there and you have all the information you could ever need to track and the survivor has nothing; left simply to guess. Not sure how anyone considers this a "mindgame."
Rolling the dice isn't fun and I could certainly do without more of this. I don't feel like I've earned the hit when I play her and I don't feel like the Spirit's really demonstrated any skill in getting a hit when I play against her.
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about "I'm just gonna quietly note that all these posts about needing Iron Will to vs spirit are silly. I've stomped her with and without it," well not every player is good and if you "tricked" spirit without Iron will (while being injured) that only means she doesnt use her headset xd, i played spirit only when i was prestiging her games were too easy xd ( i never did "standing still is a mindgame" and i didnt used red/purple add ons) if you have headset (even if surv has iron will you hear footsteps/grass move/or you can just feel him next to you) and tbh when it comes to spirits "mindgames" its like playing rock paper scissors but as spirit you can wait 5 sec longer before you pick a shape
spirit is great (dont get me wrong) but vs good spirit you feel more hopeless than vs good nurse, she is great to play as and worst to play against
and about "well what if it's this killer, maybe I should bring this perk" well its great that its an option (in theory) but in practice you have big % of chance that perk will be useless (like calm spirit to counter doc), BUT in contrary to killer you have almost 100% chance your perk/killer will works because you SEE survivors xd franklin/doc/restraint add on and some other stuff you dont take that blind
and about talk 3 same perks + exhaustion xd wait let me see killers vs which i play, ruin/pop/noed/bbq xd ppl love meta perks too much which is sad (for both sides)
my builds: as surv bond, SB, small games, plunderers
as killer: whispers,bbq(those 2 on every), enduring, dev hope(those 2 on most)
ppl just loves to be meta slaves and dont want to leave their comfort zones which were made by someone else
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Its just a basic understand of the Killers power and mechanics and that's really it...
Perks help, but its not required. Some people believe perks are the only way to counter certain Killers, but that's completely false. This stigma is either created out of anger from losing to that specific Killer so often, or just the classic "herd mentality." If someone says this about something, it must be true right? Wrong.
Also, if you've played the role of Killer, that also helps in understanding that specific Killers weaknesses as well. I feel Killer mains have a better understanding of how to play against other Killer mains due to them having a basic understanding of that Killer themselves.
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While Spirit has plenty of counterplay. We should not consider perks as counterplay... If we do I can come up with the logical conclusion that old MoM was perfectly balanced because you should just run an insta down killer 4 head or insta perks 4 head. Perks shouldn't be counterplay. That goes for both sides.
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How should survivors know which killer they get to bring in specific perks for certain killers? Also a guessing game has no counter for the one with exactly Zero Information.
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Agreeing here. No more spirit like killers who "mindgame" you by standing still aka just flipping coins from survivors side. Its already hardly bareable to verse multiple spirits in a row. Versing tryhard Nurse killers is actually really refreshing and I appreciate versing Nurse.
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Lacking Iron will is 95% an instadown in a chase unless you aren't using headphones but any good Spirit main will tell you that you should be using headphones. Even if you stealth, I can hear you loud as day. There's nothing you can do without it. If you aren't running IW in a chase against Spirit and don't die shortly after then she's messing up.
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Or I know what I'm doing..mental gymnastics wont get you anywhere with me
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What I'm telling you is that it doesn't matter how good you are. If she can pinpoint you via sound then she's just gonna phase to you. Please tell me what you do, lol.
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Same as a Billy..dont get caught in the open..otherwise it's my own damn fault, expecting killers not to catch you when out positioned is silly and even if she knows where..you can still use her phase to screw up her thoughts on exact location
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Survivors dont know what killer their going against next and that's where my main point is.... some survivors have the belief that certain perks are required to counter spirit (this is false) which changes up the tired meta that has been here for years... spirit has plenty of counterplay.
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Perks enhance survival chances its what calm spirit does when going against Doc and its what IW does against spirit... the same can be said about DWM, Q&Q, lithe, spine chill, lightweight, soon fixated, UE to name a few that do well against spirit...
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@Bravo0413 well but picking perks vs specific killer when blind picked is too random, its like killer running franklin without looking on lobby or lightborn without looking on lobby, or always take more tracking perks in case of 2-3 blendettes, you have good point but that kind of thing is such unfair 1 side have it easy (see vs what they play), other have to blind pick stuff
and about your list of perks when i played spirit i never noticed(in game) much difference, only Q&Q messes you up, but iron will is still superior (well i have good headset <Smug>) maybe you dont have directional sound in your windows because tracking survs through sound is way more consistent than relying on scratch marks which are often bugged, generated on random tree etc
spine chill how could it help vs spirit? (ok vs prayer beads it helps you to not get grabbed) but aside from that its pretty useless, in chase i always look on surv while in phase
lithe? it works same vs every killer xd no mather which killer you are after surv used lithe he ran away from you (and you can use your power to close that gap)
lightweight if spirit phasing 20/30m away from you maybe but funniest part if you want to mess up with spirit by making more sprint marks that perk will fck you up xD and show her clearer way to you than it should be its like doing window tech with dance with me xD
dance with me works only 1 time (vs good player)
UE aint doing Kek, when she is phasing she doesnt care, ofc you can tell you its easier to hide (if spirit is bad) xd
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A killer who picks Frankie's vs a lobby without items is useless... if a survivor picks IW or spinchill or any perks that do well against spirit they still have a functioning purpose/use... that's quite the difference in examples......... also a lot of (if not all) these arguments are when the survivor is injured.... since I keep hearing "IW is required, IW is required".... in which case while injured you're supposed to feel more threatened... you can waste a lot of spirits time while full health state....
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@Bravo0413 "that's quite the difference in examples........." well fixated/LW/spine chill are as usefull vs other killers as franklin vs only chest items xd
as i told DWM works 1 time, IW doesnt work if killer is good xd (but if we take "killer is bad" then we just dont need perks) because good killer wont lose you because he can see you (only case is spirit losing you from her sight)
and about " in which case while injured you're supposed to feel more threatened... you can waste a lot of spirits time while full health state" well youre supposed to feel more threatened but not to have huge "X marks the spot" on your head for spirit, there is a reason why Scott made "Ultimate spirit guide" in which in 12sec he shows how to buy headset ... and tbh i fully agree with that, headset = win as spirit, why? because you get 1st hit on surv and then its impossible to misstrack survs unless they have guess what IW xd especially now when every new surv is louder than prev one xd (ash, jane, jeff they are loud af)
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Actually yes there is supposed to be an "X Mark's the spot" .......... that's why the survivors moan/cry while injured.... if ya give a free hit or get hit by a 110% MS killer that's easily loopable without wasting any of their time that's on you.
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Iron Will has always been a solid perk. Fact is Spirit can still run Stridor and negate it entirely.
They have changed a lot of perks to function against one specific killer, like slippery meat, small game and calm spirit.
One thing you'll notice about all of them is that almost nobody runs them and the meta is the same as ever, because bringing a perk that has a 90% chance to do nothing is stupid.
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I can't say anything on fixated as I don't use it yet, obviously, but Lightweight and Spine Chill are good against every killer. Something doesn't have to be a hard, nigh impossible to avoid, counter to a killer to be useful. The amount of times I've dodged a nurse (or any killer really) because Spine Chill told me they were on the way is incredibly high. Lightweight is wonderful for giving killers the slip on longer loops. 3 seconds doesn't sound like much but it basically puts the the trail right on top of you. This can make it easier for some killers to track when nearby but when you gain ground it makes vanishing easier when you stop and walk. Fixated will probably help that (Though I see most people using it to learn how scratch marks work rather than to keep as a regular perk)
Edit: I accidentally put "I don't use it much" for fixated, making it seem like I was a time traveler
Post edited by Ark_the_Bonsai on0 -
I dont like running stridor because it makes survivors sound like their closee then they actually are when playing as spirit.... small game has its use (totems) but eh...... trapper and doc are not as threatening/strong as spirit is ya may see noobies run calm spirit because they hate doc but you wont hear a competent player say "what if it's going to be doc?"... and that's another point all the perks that increase your chances of surviving against spirit are quite decent against every killer...
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I will agree that, excluding Iron Will which I think is good against anyone but Doc (cause it doesn't stop screaming) most of the "What killer am I gonna vs?!" perks are garbage. I'm with the OP that survs should think about who they're gonna face but perks should do well against a portion of the cast, not *one and only one killer*. I should be thinking *incase i get one of these 6*. Not *in case I get doctor and only doctor, and no one else*
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@Ark_the_Bonsai Lightweight works vs bad killers,
spine chill works on every killer but if youre aware of surrounding you dont need it,
ofc perks dont need to be gamechanging to works (well im small game gamer and im using plunderers)
and about IW being good vs other killers, yes (if its nurse on good map, or spirit) vs other killers it wont work unless they are bad xd well most killers in this game are bad (so i guess thats why IW works)
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It's my opinion the best killers are the ones who break one aspect of the survivor game.
No set of perks should be very powerful in all situations. It's my opinion, that you think about the things that you go up against, and you slot that which you hate dealing with the most.
For example, I hate with a passion how Hag limits my mobility as her traps often force me to crouch walk. So I bring Urban Evasion. Am I mad she makes me slot this perk? Not at all, I accept as a player this is the thing I struggle with, so I bring it along.
I have trouble seeing people in Corn as killer, so I make the addin that moves my red stain to the survivor as part of my base kit as Doc so I have an easier time seeing survivors I'm chasing through the corn.
Perks should be something you feel forced to use to cover weaknesses in your style of play.
The meta should always be shook up with new killers and survivors. Keeps the game fresh.
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I agree with you 100%
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Oh boy.
Spirit got lots of counterplay, please stop pretending she doesn't. Ok another way. Get some proof that she got no counterplay and we can discuss.
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Spine Chill: Sure, you don't need it if you're aware of your surroundings on a an open map, but on one where a lot of the gens are surrounded by LOS blockers it's a godsend. When you hear the heartbeat you don't have to drop your gen and go see if the killer is just chasing someone nearby. You will know when they're coming for your gen. Also, if you're close to completeing a gen and they come directly for you, you will complete that gen. It gives you a speed boost to make the risk of staying on the gen worth it.
Lightweight: It's only bad against good killers if you're a bad survivor. Less time with scratchmarks means a lot when it comes to quickly traversing the map and then rapidly losing the killer if they see your scratchmarks and beeline. Sure, it's not Adrenawin, but it doesn't need to be to see results. You ever ran up to where a hook is about to take place but get caught because of your scratchmarks still being there an eternity later? Not anymore. Ever go to hide but the killer knows you're in the area despite the fact that you haven't ran in ages? Not anymore.
Iron Will: It's a stealth perk. You use it to hide. It should be good against literally anyone if you're using it the way you should be using it. If you're a looper that doesn't even know the crouch button exists, then you're right. Iron Will is useless against anyone but Nurse and Spirit, otherwise it's still an amazing perk.
I personally like to balance looping and stealth. I like to run a killer for a bit and then, and this is going to sound crazy in this day and age, lose them. All of these perks help with that to some extent. I know it's abnormal to imagine losing a killer nowadays since everyone assumes the only two ways to play are loop until you go down or Claude-in-a-Bush™. This is honestly a big part of the reason people go down so much against Nurse and Spirit. They genuinely think their only option is to run until they go down or the killer leaves them alone despite all the tools in the game to lose a killer mid chase.
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Why do people think that skills in video games are so important
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Oh, and on the Small Game/Plunderer's bit. Same. One of my favorite builds is a full item farm build. If you check enough boxes you have a solution for every problem eventually. Except Franklins but hey.
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sorry but there's nothing to discuss. if iron will isn't evolved, the spirit has the upper hand every chase regardless of the survivor's skill. and all u need is basic game sense and a headset to achieve that dominance
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