Pig Fix
These changes are meant to go together:
- Ambush now plays the roar during the attack rather than while charging
- Crouching now takes 1 second
- Couching speed now 4 M/S (up from 3.68)
- Searching boxes takes 20 seconds
- All boxes will have a different Key. Any 2 different keys will unlock the RBT. No RNG required.
- If a generator is completed while a RBT is active it's timer loses 30 seconds. Thus if all 5 gens are popped back to back then someone with RBT will be guaranteed to die if they have no keys.
- The Killer can see the RBT timer on the UI. They can already just count in order to get the information anyways so there is no point it trying to hide it.
Addon Changes:
- Combat Straps - Decreases time to crouch by 0.2 seconds (down from 0.3 due to the effect being base kit)
- Razor Wires - Also increases Skill check difficulty
- Jigsaws Annotated plan - Increase the number of jigsaw boxes by 2. Increases the number of required keys by 1.
- Jigsaws Sketch - Increase the number of jigsaw boxes by 1. Increases the number of required keys by 1.
- Amanda's Secret - Also grants 2 additional RBT's
- Amanda's Letter - Reduces the Number of Reverse Bear Traps by 2. Reduces the Number of Jigsaw boxes by 2. Reduces the number of required Keys by 1.
- Bag of Gears - Increases search time by 10% (down from 14%). (total of 2 seconds of extra search time up from 1.68)
- Crate of Gears - Increases search time by 20% (down from 30%). (total of 4 seconds of extra search time up from 3.6)
Comments
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No roar before the charge, good.
The numbers for crouch stuff don't mean anything to me, sorry.
So let me get this straight:
You search the first box, using up 20 seconds, you get one key.
You find another box, use up 20 seconds, get a second key and then take off the RBT.
Sound right?
Idk, but isn't that a tad too generous to the Survivor?
Lol, anti-genrush.
Also, it might just make POP!s more frequent, which is pretty neat.
More importantly of course, is it forces them to be busy with her Power, which is the main goal anyway.
Seeing the timer seems more QoL than anything, just neat to have.
I mean I'm sure it can be used in some way, but still.
Razor Wires: Ahh, they're actually good now, about time!
Rest just seems good, though I'm not an expert with numbers on other Killers' Add-ons.
Except Combat Straps, like I said before, idk about numbers on crouch stuff.
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that's 40 seconds of searching boxes flat plus travel time
Right now it's random between 12 and 48 seconds of searching plus travel time.
From the Survivor PoV it's much more consistent but also more time consuming.
From the Pig PoV traps aren't taken off quite as fast and camping a Box is guaranteed to ultimately be pointless.
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I like these changes and would play Pig more if they were added. Instead of another bear trap for Amanda's letter, I think she should get an increase in crouch speed and a bigger aura reading range, but that's my opinion.
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nuuu don't remove the roar then we can't oink at people
Okay, here's some serious feedback from a Pig main.
- The roar playing during the ambush is unnecessary imo, and removes Pig's ability to "oink" at people. Pig's meme game is near the top, and it's part of what makes her so endearing and fun to play against. If it matters that much to you, just uncrouch at gens instead of ambushing. Worst case scenario, you get the hit anyway through M1. Best case, you get a grab and don't have to waste time chasing someone.
- Crouching now takes 1 second? Nice QoL change. Unnecessary, but nice.
- Crouching being at 4m/s is also unnecessary. With Pig, you don't want to be crouching around the map. Just crouch whenever you come within a certain radius of the gens (32m base, 24m with M&A). Or just crouch while Whispers is active, if you can't be bothered to learn distances :P
- I kinda like the box changes, when it comes to needing 2 separate keys. That's actually how it works now: each RBT has its own key, which is placed into a random box when the match starts. Needing 2 keys means you'll end up with a failsafe against survivors getting it off after the first box, but as long as you don't add more boxes, they're still fairly balanced.
- Traps should not be able to consistently kill survivors. They are tools to stall, and any Game Over should be treated like a kobe - a pleasant surprise, not something to rely on or expect.
- Combat Straps - Sure, works for me.
- Razor Wires - Cool.
- Annotated Plan - If you're going to make it increase stall efficiency, give it a downside of increasing the timer by 30-60 seconds or so. There's a reason Tampered Timer is so unfun to play against: increasing lethality of RBTs, which are essentially luck-based, is not good design.
- Sketch - Same as above.
- Amanda's Secret - Nice, I like this. The addon as it stands is kinda useless.
- Amanda's Letter - Personally, I think the downside should just be that it removes your RBTs entirely, but gives you the 12m aura reading while crouched and buffs your dash attack. Maybe make it faster, last longer, etc.
- Bag of Gears - Cool.
- Crate of Gears - Cool.
All in all, I like these changes. They're mostly quality of life tweaks that make Pig more fun to play, without significantly affecting her power. Well done!
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Roar during attack - Yes
Crouch taking 1 second - Sure?
Crouch speed up to 4 m/s - Not sure about this one; seems like it would make crouch tunneling easier
Searching boxes takes 20 seconds - That seems like it would make Survivors too open to being attacked by the Pig, but idk
Search any two boxes to open the Trap - My main issue with this is not a mechanical one but a flavorful one. By making this change, you are basically reducing the odds of an RBT kill to zero. The goal of an RBT is to kill, yes, but there needs to be some hope of a Trap kill (the timer reduction change does not cut it due to 99ing gens). There is nothing wrong with it being hard to kill with a Trap, but when it reaches a point where it will never happen, what is the point of there being a SAW character to begin with?
Doing gens reduce the timer by 30 seconds - 99ing gens is a thing, so that doesn't really accomplish much. Worst-case scenario, they're still better off doing gens anyways.
Killer sees death timers - I am on board with it for the same reason you have stated, but I know there are people who allege that it would promote tunneling.
Add-ons:
Combat Straps - I feel if you are making the base time to crouch 1 second, Straps as a whole kinda becomes unnecessary.
Razor Wire - I don't think that would change much except for bad players. Good players still beat it with little effort. Personally, I think Skill Check add-ons should go.
Annotated Plan- I already explained my issue with the multiple key thing, but mechanically I have no issue with this.
Sketch - See above
Amanda's Secret - Not a good enough trade-off IMO.
Amanda's Letter - This is no better than the current Letter. In fact, this is probably identical to the current Letter in practice (assuming you keep the aura reading).
Bag/Crate of Gears - With the change to base searching time, these add-ons become too much IMO. Even with the reduced percentages, using both means the Survivor takes 26 seconds to search one Box. That doesn't seem like much since it only takes a little more time than the time it would take to open a Gate, but remember that if you stop searching a Box, you need to start over. And with your change to guarantee two box searches, that gives the Killer a sizeable amount of give to balance gen defending and Box search interrupting. Maybe at higher levels this wouldn't matter aaaas much, but I think more often than not, this would just make things supremely frustrating if the Pig had even the slightest intention to disrupt Box searching.
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Remember that the timer still goes down during Box searches. So if you've only searched 1 box and there is 30 seconds left on the timer and you haven't found a box yet then you are probably dead.
And being interrupted is now way more problematic making it less a question of "will this box have a key" and more a question of "can I search this box in time before the Killer can reach me?"
The 2nd question is part of the games mechanics and can be answered with varying degrees of certainty and promotes interactivity.
The 1st is just RNG and when you die from not finding the Key it's the game screwing you over rather than the Killer outplaying you.
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A Pig main's thoughts
First Changes:
- The roar is fine as is, it lets a good Pig dictate loops and is necessary for when I'm meming
- Crouching buff is good
- Couching speed is fine, though I wouldn't mind an addon to increase it. Pig's already a lil faster than Ghost Face.
- I'm alright with a buff to box search time, but maybe 16 seconds from 12 instead of 20 - I already get head pops fine, without tunnels, and this would annihilate survivors on maps ranked 1-5 where an extra ten seconds, even unseen, even running in straight lines, would mean death.
- The RNG is fine. Commentary about how it's inconsistent indicate a lack of experience with Pig long-term, and it's kind of needed so survivors don't say "hey, I just have to do two of these and it's gone"
- I'd suggest another, lesser penalty. Perhaps a 1-3% increase in timer speed, rather than jumping 30 seconds.
- Less skilled Pigs, i.e. the ones who wouldn't count properly, would use this information to camp certain survivors - your idea is good on paper, but would be terrible in practice.
Addon Changes:
- Combat Straps - Down for the change
- Razor Wires - Seems good
- Jigsaws Annotated plan - 'Hate' the key idea, so no.
- Jigsaws Sketch - Still 'hate' the key idea.
- Amanda's Secret - Seems fair.
- Amanda's Letter - Still no. Plus, Amanda's Letter is fine as it is, I love it on Lery's or in the corn.
- Bag/Crate of Gears - Like I said, the stuff you propose is too harsh. Depending on the day, the totality of your changes would probably bring Pig killstreaks well into the hundreds. These numbers could be modified, and the general ideas are good (except the keys), and it could all be brought to balance fairly close to Hillbilly - if not a lil bit above - if less harsh changes were implemented.
A possible compromise for the Jigsaw Boxes: extend the timer ever so slightly, say to 165 seconds, and require two keys: one guaranteed in the first box, and one in a random box. That way the element of chance inherent to the character and playstyle is preserved, while slapping the RNG whiners with something nice.
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IMO, unless you are using the Gear add-ons (which creates the opposite problem) or just hard-tunneling, I think the Trapped Survivor is virtually assured the escape if they are not playing dumb. This is not something I personally would want.
The way Traps are currently set up, unless the Pig is actively interacting with the Trapped Survivor in some way, the only times RNG really screws someone over is when they have to search every single box on the largest maps (which is more of an issue with the maps than the RNG IMO). If the Pig does interact with you, unless they are hardcore tunneling (crouch tunneling or otherwise), you still have a very reasonable chance to get the Trap off. And if the Pig does manage to get that Trap Kill by balancing keeping the Trapped Survivor busy just long enough to die and not forsaking their main goal of dealing with the other Survivors, I would say the Pig played well and earned that Kill.
I won't say this is an objectively bad change, but it is a change I personally would be very unhappy with.
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Making survivors run to specific stations(up to 4 times) to then complete a timer with 3 skill checks, all under the pressure of a timer is already powerful enough. Buff Pig but don't make this gimmick any more lame to play against than it is.
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Yup. Now instead of up to 4 it's exactly 2.
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Nooooot really? It can be good, but it can also be pretty weak. The problem with the RBTs as they currently are (in my opinion) is that they are inconsistent. Improving the consistency of the Traps would certainly be nice for the Pig (though I would personally just opt for making the first box auto-fail and go from there).
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+1. I'd love a pig buff. I'd add to your idea that each trap hinders all action speed by 5%.
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Excuse me. I don't dislike roar while charging.
If roar is remove, it should be made by very~ultra rare addon. For example, the effect is added to Amanda's Secret or Amanda's Letter.
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It can be added to Letter as downside if there is upside to compensate for it.
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That sounds good 😀
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The biggest issue I have with Pig is that patrolling the map while crouched is too slow, and doesn't really give much any advantage against SWF who will spot you anyway. So buff to crouched walking speed would be my main request.
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Agree that Amanda's letter should remove your RTBs completely that way it's a lot more transformative however it definitely needs to increase the aura reading range to 24m because 12m isn't cutting it.
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I don't think the increased Aura reading is good enough to warrant losing all of Amanda's slow-down potential, but that is just me.
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I don't know if it's just me but I really like the idea of a transformative add-on it turns Amanda from stall stealth hybrid killer into a pure stealth based killer.
Of course you would have to do more than just increase the aura since you're completely taken away one side of a power you would have to give the other side a massive boost.
Increasing the aura range to 24 m would just be one of the changes.
Add something like increased ambush range or decreased charge time.
Or an effect to her ambush hits like the Begrimed chainsaw.
I don't know I've always liked that on said completely change the way you play a killer.
Which is why scratched mirrors one of my favourite add-ons it completely removes your instadown and speed potential but you get insane stealth and mind game potential.
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I did once make a Pig add-on for fun that completely upended the entire dynamic of the game by giving her Traps a bunch of big upgrades in exchange for successful RBT removal causing gens to automatically repair. :P
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In terms of how Amanda's Letter and Rules Set No.2 should be reworked, I think it's fair enough to say that one should compliment her stealth, and the other should compliment her ambush, both at the expense of her RBTs.
Potential ideas:
Amanda's Letter - Removes all RBTs and Jigsaw Boxes. Aura reading increased to 20m. Speed while crouching increased to 115%.
Rules Set No.2 - Removes all RBTs and Jigsaw Boxes. Dash speed increased to 230%. Dash duration increased to 4 seconds.
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Why would you ever not crouch with Amanda's letter?
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That's the point. It changes the way you play Pig. ;>
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You're missing my point. For a power to have any thought to it there needs to be both a reason to use it and a reason not to. While some powers have more or less reasons depending on their design all of them have a reason of some sort. Passives don't apply here for obvious reasons of course.
For example:
Ghostface - Can be revealed and the power has a cooldown. Thus the reason not to use it is literally being unable to sometimes and using it when you don't have to will make you potentially unable to use it when it would actually help.
Wraith - You can't attack in stealth and require a long channel time to exit stealth
Shape - Stalking lowers your movement speed (the effects of each tier are passive)
Freddy - Teleporting takes time and is on a cooldown. Placing dream traps eventually makes other dream traps disappear.
Nurse - There is a fatigue afterwards and soon a cooldown
Billy - You move slower while charging your power and can't turn after you've finished charging
ect ect ect
Every single power in the game is like this, even with addons. But if you can crouch at the same speed as walking then there is literally 0 reason not to just use it always.
110% would be fine, especially with the aura reading. But not 115% unless it has a downside added onto the crouch.
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