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Gen Times Are Fine
Comments
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Yes it's totally possible, what is overrated is Hillbilly sure i agree he is the best M1 killer for sure but he is certaintly not that strong against good player with grey add-ons. Sure with insta-saw and mori i destroy every SwF (almost) but we shouldn't have to play tryhardy to smash some advanced SwF.
Our max potential should be used to win against max potential survivors. Before you question my skill i know every technics (curving , zoning etc...).
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There are some coordinated teams that can give you a good game, but if they want to win and get out, they will. Especially if they brought items/addons. Imagine if they had instas or toolboxes. I have to disagree that every scenario can be won. There are games you will just lose and a good part of that is the maps you get, spawns, totem locations, a lot of things can factor in. A single mistake can extend a chase to a dangerous point, and you can't play perfect every game.
Had I gone the opposite route, I might've been able to Frenzy and hit 2, MAYBE 3, depending on the route they took, how much duration I had, if there were pallets/anything to loop me on. I still more than likely would've lost 2 gens minimum. Which is better yes, but while I'm chasing the other 3 have mended/finished a gen for sure.
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Like I said, its not a requirement its just a boost to improve things. Not using them on a Killer doesn't make it impossible to still get kills or play said Killer, it just makes it easier.
Making things easier, makes the game more fun. Why would I want to play base-kit Leatherface and get a massive headache with how bad the experience was lmao.
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That should be the case. 1 should = 4 if coordinated. I also want them to buff by baking in grey/yellow addons for some killers. Shouldn't be a requirement, they aren't for survivors.
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Perks are never a guarantee for anything. However some perks are more likely to have a butterfly effect than others. I suggested Corrupt since you dislike Ruin.
Both perks (Ruin/Corrupt) potentially allow you to build huge early-game pressure whereras Agitation merely saves you a few tenths of a second on average. The typical "carry duration" is roughly 5 seconds. Agitation increases your carry speed by 18%.
You just saved 0.9 seconds.
Just give it a try. At least Corrupt can't be destroyed at the start of the game and it somewhat synergizes with Legion due to their tracking powers.
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Losing generators really doesn't make the match a loss automatically, it actually makes the game easier to snowball. Less field to monitor = more chances to encounter and down Survivors.
RNG does help when it comes to if a game will be won, but its ultimately up to the Killer to make the best of every scenario. Whether we see eye to eye on the subject, its ultimately up to the future. But i'll respect your opinion, and just move on from the subject.
Hopefully in the future, you'll have more fun with Legion, regardless if what I said helps or not.
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I've tried CI before, I didn't like it, cuz my gens still just popped or they hid out. I'll try it again. Agi is a lot better than people think, especially in a bodyblocking situation. It's also a comfort pick for me, not really anything meant to stall or change up the game.
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Yea, for sure and I didn't take losing 3 as a loss. I took the 5 popping after using the basement hook as a loss. :P I honestly just prefer old Legion. Even at 110 I felt like I had more variety/better pressure. I've had great games with Legion post-nerf, and yea. The main thing I was pointing out was how ridiculously fast this game went, and how powerless I was to stop it. Especially as the power role. I'll play them again later, but if I keep getting games like this I'll just go back to other killers who can actually perform and not DS themselves every 20s. :P
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Hill-Billy isn't an M1 Killer, a M1 Killer is a Killer that relies on their M1 to actually down Survivors, while their M2 is just a bonus effect to getting said downs. (Just some info lol)
Also, the stigma about SWFs being gods of the game if they're coordinated really shouldn't exist, and i'm amazed it does... Probably because a lot of people are not used to it or are not in in my "skill bracket" like I sometimes think they're (That doesn't make you bad no, it just doesn't mean you're used to it like I am, thus its easier for me to crush them.)
Of course, a SWFs isn't easy, it just isn't impossible to beat. Do I have to actually try if there's a good SWFs? Yes. Will I win every-time and get a 4k? No, its not as easy as I make it seem.
In-general, some Killers really do have different experiences.
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Best of luck in the future then buddy, I do hope its a good one indeed.
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Back in the day Legion was faster and his power wasn't that bad. Sure the exploit was the thing to fix not the killer power itself. Now all we have is a killer that get looped despise the 10% increase and have a 4s cooldown with that a full gauge condition.
I use to main legion since his rework but his power S.CK.
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For sure, I appreciate the advice, don't think I'm just brushing it off. I just play a bit differently is all. :P Same to you, good luck in your games.
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One thing I'll mention is you said you don't like Sloppy Butcher/Thana, but one, isn't that Legion's main build, and two, if they had we'll make it, they countered you not having Sloppy/Thana.
I also feel like that second feral frenzy was really bad. I mean you could have had all 3 of those people injured with that most likely if you'd played it right. I really think people are downplaying how big that could have been.
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I'd actually argue that a group of coordinated solos is scarier than a SWF. An SWF will waste time on altruism/possibly make stupid plays to make sure everyone escapes. A killer needs that time/those mistakes to really get the snowball going. There are definitely SWFs that will just burn through you before you can do anything though, but there relatively rare until the red ranks, and even then some tend to que with lower rank players to bully so you might avoid them too.
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Depends on if the solos actually know what to do, if they don't that's a different story.
Its rare to even find a coordinated solo team, because there isn't coms like a SWFs has.
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Yes i agree that we can't win every game hopefully. Hillbilly is more of an M1 killer than M2 because solid player will go to pallet and window they are not stupid, your power just gonna get denied no matter how much you try.
Curving with insta saw like i said will deny a lot of loops. If i should use those add-ons to win than i would play Omega Nurse instead and we know that the most broken thing on this game and unfun to go against.
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Sloppy barely adds like 3s to healing someone else, 6s if you use Self-Care. If I'm remembering the times correctly. Also, Adrenaline completely negates both of those. Thana is 15%? I think at max, assuming I have everyone injured which most of that game I had 2 or so injured so that's only 8%? That's pretty much non-existent and someone had toolbox which would negate it anyway.
As for We'll Make It, that hard counters both cuz WMI is 100%. Sloppy cuts healing by 20%, add the 2 injured that's 28%. If they even stack cuz I think they made it so they don't stack. Either way, that's still 72% extra healing speed on WMI.
Everyone says to run Thana/Sloppy on Legion which is a bit of a contradiction and I never liked it. Thana is cuz he injures people, sloppy is for when they heal. However, you shouldn't heal against Legion and a lot of people just rush gens into Adrenaline and ignore healing altogether. The #s just aren't good enough to run those perks imo. I'd rather run my comfort perks.
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I feel your pain Caretaker, I was having a ton of fun memeing around with low rank survivors this past weekend. Then ST chapter hits, and on launch day I'm getting P3 tryhard survivors Rank 1-2 every match and forced to play like a bully just to get one kill. Thankfully the game has calmed down a bit for me since Demo's release.
I really hate playing like a toxic killer, I don't like tunneling cause you lose points for it and you let survivors work on gens uninterrupted, and I despise facecamping because it's boring as hell. But then you get squads like this one, and it makes you want to Ebony mori people with Nurse/Spirit. What a shameful display.
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I was thinking the other day maybe if they just added 30 seconds to a minute to the time to do every gen it would make the game just a LITTLE bit better for everyone. But meh, just required to bring Hex: Ruin every game, waste a perk slot, and pray that a survivor doesn't spawn on top of it.
I'm sorry but I don't think the point of NOED is to punish gen rushing. I think the point of NOED is to ensure you don't learn the killer and can basically get multiple kills very easily at the end of a match without any effort. Most of the time anyway.
I was disappointed you didn't add Monto's 'Just a little bit' at the end of that last sentence.
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Funny enough, Marth's Depip Squad did multiple experiments, not sure if you heard about them. They did a full SWF with no comms, one with comms and meta perks, and I think one with comms, but no perks? Something like that. Either way, the best success they had was SWF with no comms. Cuz they didn't mix up call outs or make stupid altruistic plays like they did on comms. They were 4 "solos" who knew what to do to get out and that's what they focused on.
Comms help for sure, and bad solos can utterly throw a game, but you can do really well with just a coordinated group out to survive.
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Of course, I just mean that coms are a benefit, they don't really make the game any better for a solo team or SWFs.
It doesn't matter if a SWF uses coms or not, it only matters if they actually all know what they're doing...
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Why didn’t you use frenzy to get information of where the rest of the survivors were in the beginning?
I understand you wanted to keep chasing that Claudette but honestly you don’t even bother to look before she pallet stuns you and takes your power away.
Would this have guaranteed that you wouldn’t have lost 3 gens? Not sure. Not without knowing what items/perks they have. What I do know is that had you checked, left that Claudette to mend... she would have had to mend giving you time to find others and do the same, thus putting pressure at the start of the match.
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We really can't add any more time to the gens. People already complain about m1 simulator, (while afking on the gen and playing survivor 2000+ hours, *cough*). It is still a good point though, we need a secondary objective or something baked in baseline for killers like CI, or something that slows down the beginning of the game where you're essentially at your weakest. The time you take searching is valuable time wasted, even more so for set-up killers. The hard part is figuring out that extension to the game, that doesn't break it and is fun for both sides.
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Ain't that the truth?
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Would me nice if there WAS a secondary objective, like a tombstone or totem or two that spawned on the map you needed to find at the end of all gens being completed before like a boney gate blocking the exit switches would break.. just something creative to increase game time just a tad, which could be added to the game once you get above a certain rank like 10.
Just throwing out ideas there.
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I mentioned this earlier. In the vid you can see me flicking my cam to see if anyone was nearby, seeing no one I decided to eat the pallet for a faster cd and down the Claudette. Had I gone over to the side where the other gens were I'd have just fatigued, and have to wait 20s for my power to come up. Claud would've mended by the time i got to the other side and hopped back on the gen or self-cared. Probably worked on the gen cuz no one brought self-care.
So, I'd have one survivor I'd be chasing as a basic killer cuz 20s cd + 4s fatigue which would've cost me 2 gens minimum. Then I'd have to chase whoever it was, probably Kate she was the closest iirc on the far left gen. By then I'd have lost Claud's gen, and had an even worse spread of gens to defend.
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They're good ideas. I think most of the community is in agreement that we need some form of secondary objective that actually slows the game down and is mandatory. Unlike totems, unless you wanna delete NOED, or gain extra points/emblem points.
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If you don't heal Legion is still able to get you though. Not healing is just as bad as healing, just like Plague. You either heal and he injures you again, or you don't and you're a 1 hit down which makes it easier. Also, again, that second FF would have given you full Thanataphobia stacks. If they were SWF, then yeah We'll Make It likely would have still done a lot for them, but it still would have slowed them down, and take it from someone who's dealt with sloppy a lot. It hurts, it hurts bad.
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See, as someone who runs No Mither, Sloppy, FF, all these things are just a joke to me. Cuz I don't heal. I just loop and do gens. That is if I ever get seen at all. It's not that much slower, it's like 6s for SC, 3 for healing someone else. It's just the red bar making it seem worse than it is. Second FF I didn't hit anyone?
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@Caretaker My bad, I don’t play Legion much and I didn’t know his Frenzy had a radius limit.
For me personally, I think gens as fine, what I think needs to change is killer abilities. Legion already needs a rework IMO, he isn’t excelling at which is he all about... Running.
I said this in another post and I’ll say it again.. change his Frenzy to be used to gain distance and at the end of his Frenzy give him an ambush attack that gives deep wounds from which survivors have to find special bandages to get patched up. To balance it out, only allow Frenzy to be used while not in a chase. In essence this does 2 things... gives Legion more versatility but also gives survivors “things to do” that aren’t “hold M1 for x seconds”.
Think if Legion worked like Hillbilly (getting from one place to another) but without the insta down, instead he would feel more agile and fast.
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Actually, if you're really good at running loops, being a one shot down shouldn't be a problem to you. The only time being a one shot down is a problem is when you think you're going to get hit by the killer.
All in all, great survivors don't need to heal when they can run loops so good that the killer can't get a hit in. :)
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THANK YOU! So many people even the devs act like one-shot downs are scary, and they're really not unless it's like Nurse with MYC, or if you're in a deadzone.
No worries. It has a limit of 32, I think you can extend it with your TR with Distressing and other perks. You can also make it unlimited with an UR addon. I've actually written up a fix to Legion that keeps him in-line, keeps the m1 playstyle, and lets him have mobility, power, and stall while removing the moonwalking/frank's. I'll post it below, it's obviously subject to change, but this was something I wrote up real fast that I felt could work while keeping his initial uniqueness, but also remove what made him feel unfun.
Also, anyone who claims they know Legion, but didn't play how he is now when he was 110, I disregard. So many people only played with Frank's, and moonwalked, while refusing to try to m1 and act like this new Legion has a new playstyle. Nah, you could do it effectively at 110 and while it was harder, it was a lot of fun.
Take base Legion pre-nerf and go from there.
-Bump to 115.
-No more downing with FF, no more drain in TR.
-If you fully deplete DW it now adds an action speed penalty for up to x(a minute maybe?)
-If they mend the action speed penalty applies for 30s instead.
-You can still multi-stab as before, but draining the bar just gets you closer to the "mangled" debuff. 3 stabs to drain.
-Keep the rework pins, but they now apply when picked up from dying state, or when rescued from hook, and apply first application of DW.
-SWS reworked to 1 less stab to put a survivor into "mangled" and extends the timers by 10s for mended, 15s for "mangled"
-Frank's reworked to every successful application of DW you gain increasing movement speed until you stab someone who is already in DW, or cancel Feral Frenzy.
-Fuming Mix Tape reworked to you have infinite feral frenzy outside of a chase. This doesn't work with Killer Instinct even if you drop a chase. Will only apply on a fresh Feral Frenzy.(edited)
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However, just keep in mind that no one is perfect, so one shot downs are scaled depending on your skill and consistency.
I watch Zubatlel and he's an excellent survivor, but he still make mistakes. Human error is something we will all run into at some point, and that's probably why people cleanse or heal because we know we will mess up eventually. :)
Overall, if you're not confident, heal or play it very safe, but otherwise, who cares if you're a one shot?
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You can always run the plagues ability. People consider it extremely low tier though due to it being useless for the rest of the game. It heavily limits the gens they can do though. I've recently tried Corrupt intervention, Ruin, Discordance, and Pop goes the weasel. So far it's doing pretty good. We have all these perks to really help figure out who's doing what. Sure they can work through ruin, but it definitely hinders people. Sucks that it's mandatory in the later ends of things, but eh, the game isn't balanced around SWF. Unless these players were all randoms, idek. Even still, I usually find people before Corrupt intervention goes away.
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I was saying if you had hit the one person, you could have hit all 3, they were all nearby. It could have been really great for you. I don't think it was something to downplay.
I disagree. I mean yes, if you are better at loops than the killer, sure, but True has gone against some really damn good survivors as Legion and 4ked consistently, and I'm sure he doesn't think Legion is a dumpsterfire. One game he even used perks that countered themselves.
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This is why I enjoy No Mither. If you can consistently survive and hide with it, you can do that much better when not running it. It's super helpful.
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Corrupt Intervention, and I have tried it before. People just hid from me, or did gens that were open while I was busy chasing. Then they know they can avoid a 3-gen as well by not doing too many away from that cluster.
I might've been able to hit them. It all depends on how they ran it. I also would've had to wait 20s, as it has a 20s cd. That's after the 4 second fatigue. Could, but in more likelihood I would've hit 1 and wasted time going for others.
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You mean your skill as killer don't matters at all? Yep, one of the biggest problems with 90% of the killers in DBD.
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I'm not following with this statement, are you agreeing with me or?
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Sometimes you can't do anything to win the game. But you don't have to accept that. Keep the devs pressured to balance the game instead of accepting a unbalanced state. That's my point.
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It is not about the traps. I do the same thing with Pig, Doc, Hag, Shape. You look at the gen layout as soon as you enter. Ignore the outliers at first and patrol the clusters closest together. Pick you area of the map and defend it. If the survivors are popping hens, they will likely pop the ones not in your chosen area, as long as you are pressuring it, and find themselves having to work a taller field where you can influence the tempo better.
Legion is better at this than Trapper. You can see where people are when you apply DW. If they are on a gen close enough, push them off. Don't just tunnel down the first one you see.
I only run Legion for dailies, so I'm not as good with him as I am with others, yet 4k with 3 gens left is the norm when I do run him. (Purple and red)
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I accept an unbalanced state BECAUSE ik alot of the issues in this game won't be fixed with the snap of two fingers.
You make the best of each situation, nothings perfect, and hounding the devs to fix the issues gets you nowhere. Demanding change will only waste your time.
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Exactly this.
If you let survivors drag you all over the map, and they know how to be chased well, then you are going to have a hard time.
I love killers that get tunnel vision on me and chase me to areas of the map they shouldn't be going to. I always make sure to know which gens need to be done, which part of the map they are, etc, when I'm killer and survivor. That is just as important as winning chases.
So many people cite tru3 talent's videos when they want to say 'omg Gen rush is so bad!' and every time I see him being led all over the place by survivors, hardly ever concerning himself with the state of his Gen layout.
People love to say that survivors hold the reigns in this game, and while that can be true to an extent, killers aren't helpless, like they are being portrayed as. A good killer who understands how to pressure Gens, and push survivors where he wants them to be, is a scary killer.
As for the OP...the first chase is the most important chase in almost every game. If you let 3 gens go by during that first chase, that's on you. If you can't down that first survivor quickly, the game can and will spiral out of your control. And playing with no addons...? Killers are supposed to use addons every game. Only nurse can get away with doing that against good survivors.
Basically, what I'm saying is that had another player been playing killer in your game, the result could have been different. No game is unwinnable at the beginning. Every mistake a killer makes can lead to your defeat, and that game you played certainly wasn't perfect.
And by mistake I don't mean missing a swing or rounding a loop too slow. A mistake is also choosing the wrong direction to go at the beginning. The hard truth is, the killer role is much more punishing - as it should be.
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I only played as Billy. I never ever used ruin because this doesn't make the game more fun for me or for the survivors. Knowing that I won a game using ruin or noed? No satisfaction, no point. Playing killer is just too competitive. You can't miss a single hit or do 1 mistake in some games, even if you do 0 mistakes you still loose sometimes. damn. This doesn't feel fun. We need something else. Another killer mode maybe.
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Why did you go into frenzy when you just could have gotten the first hit without, especially since you didn't even bother to find anyone else to apply pressure.
Also, you spent way too long trying to find an immerse Claudette, checking lockers, etc. Hit the gen and move on.
And there are plenty of gen slowdown / gen abuse perks that you can slow the game down some. And like someone above said, once a few gens are done the killer can have more power and gen control and still get a 4k. But when I see a killer doesn't have Ruin, he better be amazing at that killer or he is going to be bullied.
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There's no stopping this (even with ruin). It's all RNG and where the survivors spawn. If all 4 spawn on separate gens, you can only deal with one at a time and a minute later 3 gens pop and you're already against the ropes. It something that happens and we have to accept that, not like it, but accept it. That or play nurse every round. I had the EXACT same thing happen to me last night. Short chase, hook and then pop pop pop! I'm down to 2 gens and 2 of them raced to the 4th. One of the reasons I NEVER run the offering where they are all seperated. Even the survivors in post chat felt bad about the 3 gens popping right at the start, but I don't want to run ruin every game. I want to have some fun builds and that's the chance I take :)
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My Community Response forum states other wise but... I will keep on receiving answers on it until October 14th!
Then I will Post all results on that discussion on that date.
So stay tuned!
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Sorry, but I myself have gotten genrushed like this too many times to care. I just sigh in despair, play another killer game if that was my first one, or switch to survivor for the rest of the day. This has been in the game for the longest time, it's obvious that the devs don't wanna do anything about it but add plasterfix perks like ruin, pop, corrupt, discordance and surveillance.
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Well yeah ur getting rushed. Ur giving a BS reason to not run Ruin and ur running Agi and Brutal, 2 perks Legion doesn't need or make any good use of.
Throw them out. Pull up your big boy pants and use ruin, run Thanatophobia to gut their action speed if they don't heal, and run something like Sloppy Butcher. There ya go. Now they're going to be neutered as far as repair speeds go.
Ur complaining about an issue but it doesn't even seem like ur trying to make the best out of the situation. There are a large number of killer perks to help defend generators. The fact that you don't use them is very very telling.
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If you don’t want to run ruin for whatever silly reason, give thrilling tremors a go
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