Game is survivor sided. Change my mind
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yeah everyone knows this
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I don't even understand what those screenshots are implying or where they come from, but "change my mind" topics are always just code for "I want to argue."
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So then whats the point in playing killer? Do I just have to play spirit and nurse and pretend there isn't any other killers?
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lowkey yeah but no cap, no. You just need to get really good at a certain killer and know what to do in the situations survivors use their “fair and balanced” tactics.
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They come from a website that tracks survivors and killers on a leaderboard I assumed you would know about it. And yes I want you to argue your point of you think it's any different
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Understandable tbh. I just think when rank 1 survivors all bring second chance items and perks it's almost impossible even with said OP killers. M1 killers either have to slug for 4 K and black pip or just lose
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Huh? This makes no sense. For the game to run semi-decent;y the game has to be full of survivors because of the whole 4v1 thing. So yeah, duh.
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Ummm that's like already implied my dude. That doesn't excuse the fact that there are more fingers on my hand than rank one killers compared to the never ending list of rank 1 survivors.
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I can't even read the screenshot.
Try making a coherent argument first, then we can talk.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
no it isnt theres alot of bullshit on both sides. killers can camp and nurse and spirit exist.
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It has been since day 1. But without old DS and pallet vacuums it's a lot better now.
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There's nothing wrong with arguing, but you can't argue without an argument.
OP doesn't understand how to make an argument, so no discussion can possibly commence.
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Heh sorry, I just find it to be a "getting off on the wrong foot" subject format.
I do broadly agree that the game swings in the survivors' favor when we are talking about very optimal loadouts and high-rank matches. With a few exceptions (Nurse, Spirit, Hillbilly), killers do not have the mobility for wide map coverage or quick chases to handle everything in the whack-a-mole game that they are playing. The clock is against the killer at all times, and most killers don't have strong tools to beat the clock if the survivors know what they're doing.
But there's also not a single consistent definition for a win or a loss. Some survivors will almost inevitably die to a strong killer, some others will survive. So who "wins" in those cases?
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Because survivor is more relaxed. Killer you have to scramble to control all four survivors.
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The argument is in the title the source of from the website. If you think survivors aren't favoured. Please be my guest to argue.
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😂😂😂
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To be fair, you made no argument, you just stated the conclusion and said LET'S ALL FIGHT. I made your argument for you.
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"Change my mind" is not "LETS ALL FIGHT". That was your interpretation and I can't help that
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I agree. I'd also say that it's still pretty much BS
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Amazing. You've changed my mind
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Really all I can think of is higher BP on average. Survivors get ######### for bloodpoints, but in turn are the power role in this 4v1.
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Well... nothing new, but I can't argue with main survivors about this topic because they are so closed and never play killer side
They think that the real problem of this game is camp and tunneling, no matter how many tools they have to deal with it
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I agree with you. Especially where you state killers don't really have the tools to beat the clock against great survivors. I just think there has to be a solution to not make killers OP for newbies but also make it more difficult for rank 1 survivors
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Wow that’s so brave of you to say something so controversial
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Yup I must say I've argued many times with survivors who believe this.
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The game isn't survivor sided at all. It's the matter of the skill level of the survivors vs the skill level of the killer.
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This is a genre problem -- killers seem unbeatable when you are new, and pathetic once you understand how everything fits together. I remember this being the arc in Friday the 13th, where you got killed within the first minute when you were new, but it was almost impossible for Jason to win against survivors who understood the game mechanics.
DBD strikes a better balance, but this is not an easy thing to solve.
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I don't believe this is true one bit. The game leans towards survivors heavily. I can assure you this because of:
• maps that are heavily survivor sided (which is most of them)
• insta heals and keys
• anti tunnel and camp perks
Any good survivor team will destroy a wraith everytime.
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If that's the argument, my counter argument is:
a.) More people need to play survivor than killer. It's a 4v1 asymmetric game after all.
b.) Killer pipping is significantly harder due to the faulty emblem design compared to survivor pipping.
- b.1) This has no bearing on the game being killer or survivor-sided from a mechanical point of view.
c.) Most Killers prefer to de-rank because they don't want to stay in the high ranks, partly because it's harder to pip as killer, and partly because it's nothing but toxic sludge in the red ranks.
- c.1) You can find tons of evidence of killers deranking, play survivor for a couple hours and you're almost gauranteed to come across an AFK killer deranking.
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Every map is killer sided except Laurie's map.
Maps are literally just a tracking tool.
Keys act as a second chance to get the hatch if it was being camped or if you want a multi-escape.
Insta-heals and anti-tunnel/camp perks need to stay. Camping and tunneling just proves you're a terrible killer and can't get kills.
Wraith is kinda just ######### by default. D-tier.
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whats bad about anti camp and tunnel perks survivors wanna actually have fun and play the game normally
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Ok awesome thanks for your input. Firstly I'd like to agree with all of your base statements. But I'd also like to add some further depth as to why killers want to de rank.
The games at rank 1 are genuinely not fun to play. If a killer wants to play their favourite M1 killer against this rank 1, toxic sludge of a team. They are most likely to lose miserably.
Don't get me wrong if the killer gets a map that's decent for him and there are no insta heals and keys, it's winnable. Otherwise it's heavily in favour of survivors
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Depends on what circumstances you're talking about. If you're just generalizing, I would completely disagree. If you're talking experienced SWF groups, it's possible.
Survivors seem to only be favored in situations where they:
1) Have a lot of experience/map knowledge. Having poor map knowledge as a killer is significantly less impactful than as a survivor.
2) Have decent to strong/meta perk load-out which requires a high amount of BPs to get going (leveling several characters to 30/35/40)
3) Are able to actually communicate during the game via voice chat due to being SWF
I've played a decent amount of solo survivor and there seems to be this spot around higher purple ranks like rank 5-6 where you start running into experienced players using strong killers with optimal load-outs and you will quite regularly get your ######### pushed in. I'm talking like, less than 20% escape rate because you know... you can't actually communicate with your team at all really in solo queue and the survivors usually aren't skilled enough to loop an experienced killer long enough to get gens done. This has a massive impact on your team's success as a survivor and obviously cannot affect the killer as they are always solo.
Keep in mind that BHVR has already stated that the goal is a 50% escape rate for survivors. I'm not sure how they factor SWF versus public matching into this but this probably means that solo survival rate is much lower than that to compensate for a potentially higher SWF survival rate.
My killer games are a lot more fun and relaxed than my solo survivor games where it's this constant struggle to unhook, heal, repair gens, cleanse hex totems, etc. whilst dealing with zero communication and little to no information (depending on which perks you and your team chose).
TL;DR: In my opinion, the game only favors survivors who are experienced and SWFing.
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The title is not an argument. That's a statement (also known as a thesis or position).
But anyway. I've given my argument. You can feel free to refute it if you can.
Also please provide the source for your data. There are people who may want to fact check your data. (such as myself)
My data is there for you to check yourself if you're not convinced.
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That's simply because they know what they're doing. The matches wouldn't be as lackluster if the killer was the same.
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Yes from your maths it would seem my argument to not be true. However the global leader board is not what I was using. In fact I have been using my own countries leader board as evidence because Australia is highly competitive. And competitive play is more valuable to me than casual. The player base is more focused here in Australia and in my opinion actually magnifies the issues
Post edited by Inji on0 -
It truly is. Now when playing against 4 insta heals or 2 insta heals and two keys. Combined with Ormond or Haddonfield it's a very unlikely game to be able to win
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Stop calling me bad :(
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While I understand you have strong feelings for your own country's gaming scene, if we're talking about the game itself as a whole (which is your argument) then my data is the superior data set for inferring insights compared to yours.
I am willing to accept the statement "Australian Dead by Daylight is Survivor-sided" from your argument, but not the statement "Game is survivor-sided."
If you feel that Australian gaming scene is more focused and a better representation of the game and its issues I'd like to see supporting arguments to convince me of your gaming scene's superiority.
I see no evidence that Australia is more competitive and a better reference than, say, the North American scene.
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Yeah our player base is really competitive and it's insanely easy to see how survivor sided this game really is at its core. I find it hard how people from other countries can't see it. Maybe it's extremely different there
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@Sauceman_Tim dude i cant read you anymore after
"I don't believe this is true one bit. The game leans towards survivors heavily. I can assure you this because of:
• maps that are heavily survivor sided (which is most of them)
• insta heals and keys
• anti tunnel and camp perks
Any good survivor team will destroy a wraith everytime."
about maps being surv sided kinda true but devs are changing maps and maps are way way way way better than 2 years ago xd if you would ever saw those maps or played during that time you would never cry about current maps (unless you just cry for crying and refuse to learn)
instaheals and keys my ebony mori and insta saw(or iri head or ebony) in EVERY bloodweb is disagreeing with that argument, most killers (maybe except 3/4) has pretty gamebreaking add on combo (well and we can start poop storm about how ballanced ebony mori is)
and about anti tunnel and camp perks? bruh youre telling me youre mad because survs dont want you to make this game literally unplayable for them? no way, you should write a book (btw about your belowed stats, when killer is hard camping/ hard tunneling survs cant pip soo) and its not like killers doesnt have perks right? or i missed sth after 2 fckin years?
and about wraith, im pig/wraith main xd and at most im using yellow add ons (no ruin, no pop, no noed) and i dont feel like crying about my life xd
and to sum up your Rank 1 stats (like Rank 1 means anything xd) 1 surv can carry other survs, when youre bad as killer noone will help you (aside from survs that will throw game but we dont count that) and if rank 1 would mean anything and was hard to get there wouldnt be ppl with less than 20mln bp xd (those players has probably less than 300h)(well its not like i got my 1st surv rank 1 before i had 130h overall, and on killer i had maybe 300h on killers overall and at that point i was maining pig) so yea rank matters a lot
（╯°□°）╯︵( .o.)
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In most cases, yes they are.
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Honestly I'm not from any other part of the world. Only Australia and I've only got evidence from Australia. Yes I should have changed my argument to "Australia n dead by daylight is survivor sided" but only if the experience truly is different in other countries. If true by all means the game shouldn't change for 1 highly competitive player base. If you see no evidence of this just look at Australian servers and do the same method you used for the global leader board. I assure that you will find how many more rank 1 survivors there are to rank 1 killers. Not to mention any killer main streamer will tell you of the games imbalance
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Fine by me. My evidence is from PC players anyway. I don't know what players are like on PS4 sorry bout that
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Theses threads get old real fast.
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Then stop visiting them 🤕
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How bout this. There are more rank 1 survivors cause wait for it..... there are over 4 times as many survivors then killers. So if the number of rank 1 killer over seeded survivors it would be overkill and a dying game due to lack of other side playing. Also you must take rank reset into factor. Once a killer reaches 1 and gets achievement then never really has to go there again so why would u??? I personally hate rank 1 for both. I hate having to play "sweaty" ever game with the same meta perks over and over again. Personally I wish they make a 2nd choice to do casual game.... but enough rant....
Your title is stupid.. the developers of course are a little bit to survivor side..... but not because of rank... survivors are like I said the majority of the game sense you need 4 and only 1 killer. But frankly for QOL purposes it pretty even between killers and survivors.
Change my mind.
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Well based on your Australian Chart Data and my Global Chart Data its pretty clear there's a difference between your country's DBD scene and the rest of the world's.
Your country only has 4 Rank 1 Killers and tons of Rank 1 Survivors. Meanwhile global data shows that the opposite trend: proportionally there are more Rank 1 killers.
This isn't anything that convinces me the game is survivor-sided, though. Both your testimony and DudeDelicious' simply tells me that there aren't many good killers in your country, compared to other countries.
I have no reason to believe that Australians are better at gaming in general. I mean, it might be a bit different if you were South Korean. South Koreans for instance we can make a decent argument that they are the best gamers in the world, because in many competitive and professional gaming scenes South Koreans dominate. If you could show the same kind of data or argument for Australians (and more specifically, for games in the asymmetric DBD genre) I'd be more willing to accept your assertion.
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Hey leave my bing bong boi alone lol.
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Eh, we're having a discussion here. If you are not interested in the discussion the door is over here.
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