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Hex Ruin rework idea (oh god not another one!!)
I'll start immediately with the idea, then I'll explain as to why it could be an interesting change:
GenERATORS ruin
All survivors are affected by Generators Ruin, which causes the following:
- Good Skill Checks result in 1 / 1.5 / 2 seconds of progress pause on the current Generator.
- Great Skill Checks grant 0% bonus progression on the Generator.
- (Optional) Skill checks are 5% / 7% / 10% more frequent.
- (Optional) Great Skill Checks hit area is 10% wider.
All numbers should be playtested of course, but there would be two basic principles that differentiate Gen Ruin from Hex Ruin
- Gen Ruin is not an hex, the perks stays always on.
- Gen Ruin do not causes regression, it causes only slow down.
The reason for the suggestion
Currently hex ruin is very divisive: some sees it as too unfair to solo survivors, especially on certain maps, some are on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, with the totem exploding at the very beginning of the match.
Honestly, I appreciate the thought process behind hex ruin being a hex: it's a gamble, high risk high reward, but the problem is that at low rank level it tends to stall the game too much, while at high ranks it is almost a "must take" for certain killers, and if it goes too quickly the game becomes compromised.
In other words, the current meta shows that gen slow down is paramount for the killer, but the very nature of ruin being a hex makes it a difficult perk to modify without becoming unfair.
what this change aims to accomplish
- slow the game down at higher ranks
- quicken up the game at lower ranks
- free up a hex slot for whatever future use / soft counter to the new Inner Strength
To wrap this up: gens without ruin go too fast, but changing their speed could lead to the opposite problem, especially at lower ranks, if ruin is not nerfed at the same time - which would basically render ruin a very subpar perk due to its hex nature.
Removing its hex status while at the same time massively nerf it could be a solution - but again, numbers must be tested thoroughly.
Comments
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The issue is that this doesn't solve the problem of Survivors who are good enough to just power through Ruin.
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It still slows down gen progress. Even if survivors hit all great skillchecks (which most don't) the perk will still be worth using.
I do want something to happen for Ruin. It isn't a fun perk to use or go against. It's mostly rng based. It ruins games for low ranked people and most important of all, it removes any possibility that the base length of a match is going to be altered. It isn't healthy for the game.
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Eh, way I see it, if the gens are still going very quickly with Ruin up, it's not really doing its job.
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If you mean players hitting all the great skill checks well, gg to them - but consider that when more than one survivor stays on the same generator the pause from progress after a good skill check applies to everyone of them, and every survivor is an added 100% chance to get a group skill check - or, in other words, if the mean is 1 skill check every 10 seconds, two survivors will get 1 each in this frame of time. Only one needs to hit a good skill check to pause the progress.
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Hex ruin is fine its in current state and doesn't need to be changed.
people should be able to power through ruin by hitting greater's.
just hit greater's or break it. It's not that difficult.
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...and that's exactly why I suggest a change ;).
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Personally I think ruin is in a decent spot other than totems spawning right next to gens its fine.
Same goes for all Hex perks, you take the risk of losing that perk when you run it. Especially with the current spawning system for totems, personally I main survivor and it is not a rare thing to actually spawn looking at the hex or extremely close to it.
If anything I would say they should rethink hex spawn locations.
1) Make them away from gens
2) Make it so they randomly spawn inside of trees or walls. (Idk could be interesting)
Also if you really wanna slow down generator progress maybe consider Dying Light and/or Thanatophobia.
Ruin is only meant to slow down early game, for the rest of the game you need to apply gen pressure by patrolling or the use of other perks.
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I don't disagree with you @Irvin, but making hex totems more difficult to find could be a solution only at mid rank, while becoming even more infuriating at lower rank and not a problem at all for swf / high ranks (if anything, just let one in the party bring a map / small game and you destroy hex in a few minutes).
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Ruin is fine, it isn't overpowered or anything since most good survivors hit great skill checks.
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Is that an issue?Counterplay?
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At the moment in most games Hex's are gone within a few minutes or less but not in all games. If it was more challenging to find them then survivors would be forced to waste more time looking or sacrifice a Toolbox for a map or a perk slot for small game. Doing this also slows the survivors down which means Ruin will do its job, pair it with Dying Light and make sure you get 2 or 3 stacks before the totem has been found and it won't matter as much.
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are you one of the ones that yell about Spirit not having counter play?
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Making trees hollow is actually an amazing idea. Decent totem spots, difficult to find easily and makes maps more varied.
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You're misunderstanding what ruin is. It's an early game perk and a GAMBLE one at that. all totems are GAMBLE perks. why? because there's a 1/5 chance it will be found. You're taking a 20% chance that survivors don't find and break your totem in EARLY game every time you equip that perk. The longer the game goes on, the more likely people will spot and break your totem. It's not a perk that's supposed to make the game completely annoying for four players the entire duration. If it was, it wouldn't be a totem perk. However, that does happen sometimes. why? because like I said earlier, it's a GAMBLE Perk. You are taking a chance every time you use it. If you want a perk that will last the entire game that can't be broken, get Pop goes the weasel. It's x10 as strong as ruin could ever be.
On a side note, the reason people hit these ruin skill checks so easily isn't because the skillchecks are too easy, is because literally everyone uses ruin from early-mid tier ranks and even nonconfident killers still use it red ranks and when you face ruin as a survivor you have two choices in early game: break it or do skillchecks. eventually with enough practice, anyone can hit skill checks and 9/10 times one of those four players will hunt for it. Killers rely on this perk so much that when it gets found and broken, killers fall apart because they don't know how to 3-gen strat or apply pressure on gens instead of chases, or use perks that aren't RNG based like Pop.
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Honestly as a killer and survivor, I hate ruin as a perk. I don't really care about slowing the game down thar much but everyone else does. I think the reason why ruin is a great because if it was always active it'd be too strong. That sounds like what you're trying to do but I don't know, I guess it's up to the devs.
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That's not counterplay. That's the perk not doing what it's designed to do well enough.
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The perk is designed to make people hit great skill checks, so that is pretty much counterplay
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The perk is designed to counter genrushing by either significantly slowing down gens or by making people waste time trying to find the totem. If Survivors are just ignoring the totem and just powering through it to genrush, it's just not doing its job.
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A generator with ruin takes 80 seconds to complete because there are no skill check boosts, so if you are complaining about genrushing while ruin is active you are garbage. Just patrol the generator
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I dont use ruin its just not worth it itll either stay the entire match and most gens wont get done or itll stay the entire match and all gens get done because good survivors will just power through it or itll be destoryed at the very beginning of the match i will admit that using ruin could be the reason you win a match so alot of people think thats worth the risk but from my experience its just not worth the risk really i think if thet improved totems spawning places it could be better
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That's how long a generator takes to finish if people just aim for Good Skill Checks. That just means people who are consistently hitting Great Skill Checks with Ruin are the same as people doing Skill Checks normally as though Ruin doesn't exist at all. And this is assuming zero toolboxes.
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Sure most of the time ruin is easily found and destroyed on the old maps with known totem spawn places. And yes on higher ranks its almost used every game and if not you kinda feel for the killer when they get gen rushed with only one hooked person.
Why not implement ruin to the game at higher ranks?
Give the perk a rework like Tinkerer had, make it that the it gives indications when not hitting a great skillcheck (use Technician to counter).
Make toolboxes great again by countering it, they havent changed them since the very beginning of the game (not talking about BNP).
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