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A fast and dirty fix to SWF
i imagine this was suggested before but just in case, here it goes :
Ok i think that the best and fastest way to fix this problem " no i`m not going to say just take if off the game ... :p " is just to create the friend tax, the most ppl you have in your party the higher % it is
15% more gen time whit two friends, 20% whit three, 25 whit a full group " i dont know what are the right numbers and when i say gens it can be gens or healing or whatever the can think its fair "
I realy want to play other killers but swf its not fair,
some killers are to strong for most solo players to even have a chance to win against whit out sweating a lot
So nerf the top killers, debuff the swf so the dont power rush the game and then go butt dancing in front of the doors
and for the love of good bufff in some way the low tier killers " prob higher % walking speed " outside of pursuits
Comments
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How does that make sense.
What if you have 2 swf in a game.
People have said this countless times, and I will say it again for them. Stop assuming that you got rolled in a game by a swf. Solo Qrs exist, and I say they are the vast majority.
If you wanna slow gen progress. I suggest you get Ruin and/or Dying Light. Pop goes the Weasel would be good for this as well.
Imo it's the silliest thing to punish people for wanting to play with a friend. The matchmaking already does this, Good Killers don't need this at all.
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In short, this "fix" just opens up even more problems.
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Mechanical changes don't work. People can just lobby dodge to get eachother as "solos" like they did before SWF was added, and I highly doubt that making lobby dodging punishable to stop that would be something people would want.
Incentivize playing with them (think BP bonuses and such) and/or try to close the gap and buff killers that need it.
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or you know...a simple option to toggle on or off matching with swf.
you’re basically wanting to punish for playing with friends :/
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lol im pretty bad at English so mabey i explained myself badly but the debuff only aftect the swf players and since you guys I hope acknowledge that swf have some kind of advantage it ends up evening it out
and about your suggestions tks m8s but the ppl i play whit "including myselff " can hit skill checks " ruin lol " about the other perks
if a group is playing in swf the have extra perks add to them whit comunication
i was asking exactly the same thing have some " perks " because im facing a group
i want to play whit clown legion in reds
and i play ps4 and pc and in the ps4 its hard to find out if ppl are grouping up but not on the pc ...
Do you know that you can find if ppl are in swf most of the times right ?
I get a lot of teams 2 to 4 swf all the time i dont know what ranks you are playing of im just unlucky but if i play 6 games in the evening 4 of them have a swf in them.
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You dont have what it takes, blame your gaming skiils OP.
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There is no "easy fix" for SWF.
I do not want SWF to be removed because while there are many sweaty and toxic teams out there we also have many casual friends who play together. With that being said though SWF even on a casual base does provide a far superior advantage than running solo.
It would be unfair to punish people for wanting to play with a friend (this is why a separate queue would not work).
Its unfair to expect a killer to take on this disadvantage as we have it now (this is why lobby dodging cannot be punished).
No matter what BHVR does to tackle this problem it won't be quick and it sure as hell won't be easy.
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This will probably be majorly controversial but...
The real answer is to make swf the baseline and buff solo queue survivor to swf level. Then you balance killers against the new baseline.
What is the main strength of swf? Information sharing. Bond should be baseline or the killer aura should be revealed when at least one survivor has line of sight on the killer. Alternatively, instead of perfect information like that, they could implement a ping system to allow less exact info sharing.
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This. A better solution would simply be too have two seperate modes for Quick Match and Ranked. Have 3-4 man SWF in quick match, and only have 2 man SWF in Ranked. That way the gap between solo and SWF is a lot closer then with 4 man SWF.
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There is honest fix as a 2 man and 3 man are mixed with solo who would then be disadvantaged with this idea and since which is over 50% of the playerbase.
It impossible as the best SWF don't do well just becaue of the info it's more about the coordination they have.
While nice in theory it would split the playerbase and would make queues for killers in the ranked really long and vice versa for survivors in the quick play mode.
You would need around 30% of killer players to want to play versus the 3 and 4 mans so would need an incentive and too much of an incentive hurts could then hurt the other queue. Balancing that could be the biggest nightmare.
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making kindred baseline would be useful imo then solo players dont need to "communicate" and you don't have 3 people all running at a hook like dingbats can even hide someone in a chase to make it a little more fair to the killer
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if you touch in SWF this game is dead.
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This is by far one of the worst suggestions I've seen. Most killers would obviously disable this and survivors just arent going to want to play without their friends. Queue times would just skyrocket and games would take even longer to find matches!
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Then adjust the repair speed with negative % for those in a SWF while leaving the base gen times alone. Easy.
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The real solution is this. Leave things as is but give a postgame bloodpoint bonus to killers.
4 man squad - 100% bonus
3 man 1 solo - 75%
2 different 2 man squads - 50%
2 man squad and 2 solos - 25%
There. Problem solved.
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What kind of buff could you offer the killer? This rhetoric is obtuse.
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Fair enough, I find that if someone in my random solo queue lobby takes initiative and gets all 4 people with mics into a chat it makes the game about 10x easier. Simply being able to say the "killer is over here," or "ruin is here, killer is chasing me off of it." Adds a lot of power to the survivor side even without coordinating perks or items.
I assume the easiest thing to do is to nerf survivors, the point is to create a point to balance the game around. Right now the devs are in a pickle, if you balance around swf, solo survivor gets screwed. If you balance around solo, then the game is easier for swf. The point is to bring swf and solo closer together so that better balance can be achieved. It would effectively be the survivor equivalent to what BHVR is doing on the killer side, buffing freddy and nerfing nurse has brought the extreme ends of the power scale of killers closer together. Hopefully they will continue buffing the weaker killers so that a baseline for balance can be established. Having a wide valley of power and communication between solo survivor and swf creates the same problems as having a wide valley of power between the best and worst killers.
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Guys i believe that ppl that dont want any chances in swf are just the opposite coin of ppl that think that the top killers dont need any changes .
wy do everybody need to defend there side of the field
There are 17 killers of those 2 to 5 " depending on the player " are viable on red ranks were there are a lot of swf and games end very fast and if you dont do 3 gens tatics or / and are using a fast killer you have no chance on having a fun game
wy cant ppl just compromise i play swf from time to time its fun, is it giving me a advantage .. ho yes
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You could add a secondary objective for survivors like having to find BNPs on the map and installing them in gens before you can repair gens. Something to extend the length of the average match.
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I always hear this "only a few killers are viable" statement. Yet, me a good but not great killer can frequently pip with all killers in red ranks. I think many people don't know what the word viable means.
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Okay, You obviously dont know coding much but let me explain it to you like this.
For that to even be possible you need to account for:
1.How many people are in a group
2.How many groups there are in a lobby
3.Figuring out a percentage for each group of 2,3,4 respectively
4.Making sure it doesnt overlap with solo
5.If group 1 is doing a gen, reduce speed by percentage
6.If group 1 is doing a gen with a solo, reduce speed by a percentage without overlapping with a solo
7.If group 1 and group 2 are doing a gen, reduce speed by a percentage without overlapping with one another
8.If one player disconnects from group 1, increase repair speed
9. For groups with a DC, repeat steps 1-8
10. If all but 1 member of group 1, return to base speed.
I could keep going by the way. In what way is this easy again? This is literally code hell. The amount of math here is enough to make a damnn new character.
Again, this could present a lot more issues than give an actual solution. If you're looking for a free ticket against people who can communicate, this is not the game for you. You want advice? Be less predictable. The more SWF have to catch up with callouts the easier it is for you to dominate the game. You wanna slow the game down as much as possible? Ruin, Dying Light, Thanatophobia, pop goes the weasel. Have fun.
As for OP, I have no problems with Legion as red ranks in console. I think it's a matter of how well you understand the killer you play and what you can do with it by thinking outside the box.
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Yeah, you could punish people for playing with friends while the killer camps those BNPs like ruins, put traps etc.
Sure sure sure sure sure.
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And then every killer turns it off, leaving swf with astronomical wait times.
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Apparently English comprehension is difficult for you. Let me try again.
Apply a negative repair speed debuff to those in a swf group. That means the gens and ungrouped people remain the same but those in a group repair with a debuff, sort of like being affected by Thanatophobia.
The game tracks the current obsession and applies buffs or debuffs specific to them and they can interact with the same gen or hurt survivor as those without the buff or debuff. Like Dying Light where they get an altruism buff yet can still help heal with another survivor!
The game also keeps track of who is grouped and who isn't which is why you can have 3 rank 20s and a rank 1 survivor face a rank 1 killer.
If you are going to insinuate someone doesn't understand something be sure you have a clue about what you are talking about yourself. Don't bother stating that you misunderstood, because it's not true. What you did was look to defend SWF being unhindered and started writing before you even considered what I said. It's typical of those trying to reverse engineer an excuse to shield themselves from a nerf.
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Lol assuming my English comprehension is somehow less than yours.
You would have seen that I am merely pointing out that Making the sort of change you're suggesting (which is unlikely) is code hell. A better suggestion as someone prior to me said, a quick play/ ranked feature limiting swf is probably the best way to tackle swf.
I am insisting you don't understand CODING. You pretty much dumbed down what I said and said it yourself as simple as it can get. But the workload, is not. I am in no way stating swf is unhindered. I gave temporary solutions, not fixes, not excuses.
I considered what you said, and the idea is absolutely ridiculous. Why should you punish players for playing casually with their friends? What your idea does is encourage lobby dodging, increasing queue times by a metric ton.
You're talking to me about understanding a subject without having a concept of pros and cons for the same subject you're trying to push on me.
Sure, the devs could add this in... Buuut...
What you should have in your train of thought is "how can this go wrong" instead of "this should be good". Which is why I think the devs are doing a decent job with the recent patches, because they have the right mindset.
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Except everything you said is completely wrong and doesn't apply to the systems in place that already do what you insist they can not. No coding hell or convoluted math needed.
Word & Thought salad with Rambling toppings doesn't change that fact.
You don't punish people for playing with their friends, you do however adjust their efficiency to create a fair game when playing with their friends hinders that.
Offering Red Herring to go with your salad is a terrible choice for your Argument Du Jour.
Thanks for playing.
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killers don't need any more bloodpoints than the ridiculous amount they already get.
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The biggest problem is that it seems, as I've seen lots of people commenting on this, that the game wasnt intended to allow for coop play. Hence all the information perks that exist. Survivors were ment to try and interact with each other using the tolls that they had. SWF literally breaks the game in this sence.
As a solo player, you are doing a gen when someone runs into you bringing the killer along. That doesn't happen with SWF.
Someone found ruin? Chase the person, hook them, and now they need to get unhooked before going back to the totem.
SWF just feed information to each other, and while someone is unhooking, someone else is at the totem.
They could all be sweet and gentle. It still wouldn't change the fact that they
LITERALLY BREAK THE GAME.
And that's why devs fkd up by allowing'em on ranked. There should be a separate matchmaking imo.
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No coding or math needed?
Now this is just overkill monsieur.
I believe the salad needs sel... not sucre.
Either way, you know that isn't true at all.
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The coding is already done. The system is already in place. You simply apply a debuff to those in group commensurate with the size of their group. That's all.
Bon Appetit.
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If you want to make a SWF tax (and I like this concept btw), I say tax their loadout.
swf 2: each of those 2 players loses the ability to choose add-ons for their items.
swf 3: in addition to no add-ons, each swf player has 1 perk slot grayed out.
swf 4: no add-ons and 2 perk slots grayed out.
This seems fair to me since the extremely common com usage in SWF makes up for missing perks. The lack of add-ons can help make up for coordinated pre-game planning (ie “you use Leader and I’ll bring a toolbox with high efficiency and BNP”)
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This implies obviously that you think the game is balanced for killer vs 4 solo survivors. Come on now. Anyone who’s unbiased I think can admit that in today’s game that’s definitely advantage killer. So no way should killer get anything additional for playing 2 SWF, that’s ridiculous. Three is debatable, but I wouldn’t object to a small amount, certainly not 75%. Double BP for 4 man no way, way too high.
Solo survivor should also get the same bonus that killer gets for facing the 3 man SWF.
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Doesn't have to explicitly be direct buffs to killers, but things like more map reworks and second objectives would alone go a long way to give killers more time to work with. And for many of the weaker killers there's plenty of good, simple ideas that would help them a fair bit. Like Leatherface moving faster while revving his chainsaw up, Trapper starting with some level of bag addon, placement speed addon and perhaps make traps harder to escape from as base kit, doc getting more shock range in base kit, that sort of thing. There's good ideas floating around for killers like Legion that I've forgotten at the moment too. And I mean this in general, not only vs SWF.
Honestly surprised there hasn't been any of the usual responses to this statement in this thread where someone quotes you and goes "Good :)" while completely missing the fact that their own wait times would go up as well 😄
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punishing people for playing with their friends kekw
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The problem with this is it takes years to get done and that's just a time measurement for what's in game and doesn't figure in new releases along the way.
A debuff to the party commensurate with the number in group is a quick fix that doesn't require anything else.
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LOL always that excuse that you want to punish ppl for playing whit there friends ... no my friend you want to punish other ppl because you are playing whit your friends
My idea was a fast fix the just needed to adjust % to make it fair, all the other fixes need a lot of testing " like taking perks out or items " and i also play survivor and its indead more fun when im whit them
about the usual statment, you need to get good i play reds i get 4k evretime
congratulations my friend you are the best " maby stop playing the 3 top killers whit add ons and join the rest of the mortals "
i never see any kind of swf " even if in my experience its almost every game "
you are not looking hard or you are lying
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It's totally true that it'll take ages to see lots of buffs like that and map changes, yeah.
It's just that debuffs/nerfs specifically targetting parties can be circumvented by people queue-sniping eachother as "solos", just like people did before SWF was added. It's easily circumvented by any group that is rank-wise and geographically close to eachother.
And there's no real way to prevent this behavior outside of making lobby dodging punishable, which would arguably hurt killers more. Just because they're not SWF, 4 solo survivors you know are highly competent all bringing pimped out toolboxes and one of them burning a Haddonfield offering every time you play against them doesn't sound like a good time, for example.
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There should not be any disadvantages or penalisation for playing a game with friends, for me it is really annoying how it is right now. I mainly play solo but occasionally some friends who rarely play want to play with me and they always end up facing a rank 1-4 killer which is not a fun time for them at all, there is no need to make the situation any worse than it already is.
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so its super ok having the 5 player having the disadvantages and penalisation just not you and your m8s ? and you are unable to compromise in a fix so you still get all the advantages of swf but the killer gets a little bit more time to fight your group ?! " and dosent get forced in playing the top tier killers
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The best "FIX" for SWF is letting killers know pre-lobby with certain survivors having SWF person icons above their heads.
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I am Rank 4 and my friends are ranked 16-20 there is already a huge disadvantage, most games they score low and never escape. I am only 1 person and I am basically forced to 1v1 the killer every game. In most scenarios the killers get the 4k with plenty of BP. It's not really a "fight" is it, most of them cant even manage 1 loop, lets be realistic SWF is heavily sided for killers now apart from when you have the try hard all red rank SWF groups which are a lot less common than you think
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That behavior is so obscure and difficult to do as to not be worth considering.
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Yes, there absolutely should be when playing with your friends provides an unintended advantage.
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You're missing the point, the friends I play with are at a major disadvantage when they play with me because the killer is way more skilled than they are. As I stated previously the scenarios you are relating to only applies to the rare group of 4 red rank SWF groups vs the reality of most SWF groups being one high rank with friends who are much lower in ranks with much less skill.
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No, you're missing the point.
You don't balance a game based on the worst players. It would either end up dumbed down to the point of tedium or exploitable by the great players to a laughable degree.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
I think this would be interesting but instead of it being based on swf, it's based on the surv themselves. If you have a 2 swf, then both players just get a certain percentage of repairing speed taken down, which would counteract if it's 2 swf
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That's fine. Give solo players bonus points too.
But the reality is you're never going to get rid of swf without killing the game. Killers do deserve some sort of compensation for going against swf as opposed to 4 randos. If you want to say 100% is too high, yeah I guess we could find some compromise.
I play more survivor than killer and I can tell you that even a 2 man swf squad has some advantage over playing as a solo. So if the devs aren't going to give solo players a buff (they have not) and they aren't going to eliminate swf (the obviously should not), then why not at least reward killers for playing against an increased challenge?
Another benefit is with the bonus post game, killers would get a better idea of exactly how many swf teams they're actually coming up against. I personally think killers are over-blowing the situation as if every group of survivors are swf, but also I do scoff a tiny bit at the developer's statistics as well. But with this post game bonus killers could actually get legitimate proof of whether swf groups are dominant or maybe those killers just aren't as good as they think they are.
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that was exactly what i was proposing the guys in the swf get a debuff not the randoms and the debuff depends on the size of the swf party
and about what about my friends the are potatoes help i need to be a super hero and save them all the time ... just make the debuff only work on surv after rank 10 " or whatever number you can imagine its fair "
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