Archive & Player Balance
Since the game is balanced around players rank 15-10ish, shouldn't the Archive challenges be balanced for that skill range as well?
If you're focusing on casual players for balance and want them to purchase the battlepass in order to drive them to play more, wouldn't it make sense that they would be able to accomplish the tasks tied to the object you want them to purchase?
What are your thoughts?
PS: You need 700 rift fragments to finish the battlepass. Completing the archives gives you a total of 352 rift fragments. You need to grind 278,400 devotion xp to gain the remaining 348 rift fragments to complete the battle pass during the window that the rift is open. At 500 xp per 12 minute match, this is 557 matches that may take around 111 hours to accomplish.
Good luck.
Comments
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Casuals are more likely to pay then grind.
I think there are multiple levels to the archives and will be available every few weeks. This should make up the remaining rift points.
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Exactly. NO ONE NOT ONE, literally zero average/casual players will be able to finish this thing.
I want to buy it BHVR but you have to make it achievable.
100+ hrs and that assuming you have skill to complete EVERY single challenge. Assuming you can complete 1 per match (you can't btw0.
It's designed intentionally to cheat you. To make sure you cannot finish the rift without spending money to skip parts.
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No there are 352 TOTAL Rift Fragments in the archive, this is combining all 4 levels which are time gated btw. You have to beat EVERY challenge to get the 352 and even if you do that you 100+ more hours of grinding. This doesn't factor in lobby times, crashes, ect. It also doesn't factor in games that go beyond the 9 minute mark or games where you die fast.
The Rift is designed for you to lose money.
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Total rift fragments per level are less than 100 each.
You get 352 fragments for completing the entire archive.
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whoooaaa, what happened to your 13.5 hours you said last time? 111 hours is a huge jump, what changed the math on this exactly?
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Geez.
You make so much sense, and your posts have so much information.
Thank you! :)
It's several reasons including this, that make it seem like this is just a money grab.
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Anyone else notice how NOT ONE Dev has made a thread addressing these issues? Not the time gates, not the amount hours required, not the difficulty for normal people... nothing.
There has been less and less and less communication on patches, chapters, and concerns since the 3rd anniversary. The Devs are silent.
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I forgot that 1 fragment doesn't complete a tier, 10 do.
800xp per fragment x 10 fragments for each tier = 8000 xp per tier
divided by an average of 500xp per 12 minute game = 8000 / 500 = 16 matches per tier
(16 x 12) / 60 = 3.2 hours per tier.
35 tiers remaining after archive completion means that the remaining 35 tiers require a time investment of 112 hours to complete.
This time can also be accrued during the completion of the archive, but it's kept separate to keep things simple.
112 hours is assuming you can complete the archive in that same number of matches.
Additional matches to actually complete the archive itself will add to this time considerably.
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mmm, ok.
😑
Not surprised though.
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jeez... 13.5 hours plus all the challenges was very doable but this...
sighs as... sad as i am that my excitement for all the charms and such is now ruined, im glad you posted this. i mean it is PTB and it can always change but... probably wont change too much from what it is now...
thanks again for showing the real math here. guess i'll deal with the free stuff.
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@SpaceCoconut Thanks for posting the actual math. My first blush impression of the Rift wasn't far off the mark, though.
Already decided my money is better spent elsewhere than on the Rift. Matter of fact, I already decided to just play DbD normally and ignore Challenges completely. My only concern is: How will many others grinding out the challenges and seeking specific goals, even if it means throwing a match to achieve them, affect my play enjoyment?
I've already seen Streamers basically throw matches by not doing gens or totems just to grind out other challenges.
I've seen these things happen in other games with Battlepasses and challenges, as well, where just trying to play the game normally became a pain in the ass. Which, unfortunately, led to me uninstalling those games and finally moving on.
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@Kilmeran That is a very good point. I definitely see this as a real possibility.
@SpaceCoconut Thanks for doing the math.
And that is with completing the ENTIRE rift challenges, some people are unsure they can even do all the master rift challenges....
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Welp, you might be right. I hope not because I really enjoy this game warts and all, but I can see that happening unfortunately. Although to be fair, people throw all the time now.
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And this is why passes are not always great for games. To each their own about how they spend their money. My concern, the amount of DCing that is going to happen because of people trying to complete specific challenges. Because they want to add the archives (which is cool) but also a rift pass (meh) when theres literally nothing to combat whats been a constant issue for ever now. People intentionally (and unintentionally) DCing.
So when a killer is trying to do a specific challenge and can't.
"Well time to DC"
When a survivor is trying to do a certain challenge and gets tunneled or camped or is just unlucky because teammates are playing the game for fun or to escape instead of his own goal?
"Well time to DC"
They should of focused on implementing something to combat this issue before deciding to add something which will most likely just amplify said problem.
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What I dont like is that u have to play both roles to get all the fragments from the challenges. A lot of us don't like to play survivor or killer. For example I suck so bad at playing killer. So I won't complete most of the killer challenges. Of course u can try to farm, but find people who are willing to. Everytime I've tried to farm for a killer daily survivors didn't want to. Sure, cause it's boring af so I couldn't blame them. So imagine me completing killer master challenges...first I would have to grind through a killer's bloodweb to get noed for example. And we all know that waiting for a specific perk to appear in the bloodweb can be a pain in the a...So it might happen that I have to spend BP on a role I don't like to play, just to get noed to complete that challenge, which, in my case, will never happen, cause I'm the worst killer ever. And the amount of fragments you'll get by just playing the game is ridiculous. And like @InfinyMage already said: DC is real and will be worse, cause people will be more salty, because the paid for it. First I didn't like the idea of a battlepass. Then since the ptb I was sooooo excited for it, but after all the math I'm like :(
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Your math is a little bit off at the end. If you say that your matches last average of 12 minutes that means you would be making at LEAST 720xp/match since xp is earned at a rate of 1xp/second.
So if you take the total amount of xp required (278,400) and divide it by xp earned per match (720) you are looking at 387 games. 387 games times 12 minutes means a total of 4,644 minutes or roughly 77.5 hours. This means you would need to play at least an hour a day to complete it.
That being said the grind is definitely going to be rough for even dedicated players and casual players are never going to finish it. I really hope the do listen to the feedback and lessen the grind.
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I got roasted the other day for making a thread about the battle pass being bad news. I did not know the extent. This is obscene and exactly how these things usually go. They have every incentive to encourage people to buy the tiers outright by making it as difficult and grindy as possible. When there is monetary method to circumvent the game mechanics, it is never a positive thing.
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I can get over the paid route having more rewards than the free one but to have neither achievable by either for most players is disgusting.
What makes it even worse is that the Halloween event is now tied to the Rift so if you want to earn your "free" event cosmetics you're likely going to have to pay out for it??
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Its likely cheaper to buy the outfits $10 a piece than to "pay out" for them using the rift currency.
You could buy an outfit or finish a seventh of the rift for $10.
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Or, you could simply learn the game and unlock them normally. I hate when devs balance for the majority instead of the top players who have much more knowledge about the game. My time on the PTB, I got pretty far into both the archives and the battle pass, plus they are both available for an entire month, which is more then enough time for casual players too get everything.
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Very likely to be true. I guess it depends on how far in you can make it before the time runs out... I'll just have to wait and see and then do the math
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Everything we read above says it is not feasible for casuals to unlock everything. That is the point. They want you to spend real money to finish the pass.
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Lol. Sure.
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The thought just occurred to me, I remember when they did that past event, where you had to play survivor to get 30 free serum and then killer for 30 free serum in order to earn all the free cosmetics (6). But the matchmaking and Q times were so bad, they changed it to 60 free serum on whatever side that you want to earn it with.
And that got me thinking about these challenges. Do you think matchmaking could potentially get even more skewed because of the challenges, as they are forcing people to play on another side as well, (if they don't want to or wouldn't do it normally).
I mean even currently, matchmaking is atrocious and it takes me forever just to get into a lobby. (both sides, sometimes)
I am also bummed thinking you can't even earn the Halloween skins during Halloween realistically. -- Depending on the tiers, which I guess are unknown at the moment, so hopefully this isn't an issue, but who knows.
This is such a bummer. I can only hope it's better than I think, but ... sigh
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Wow. It really is a cash-grab.
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I agree most people won't be able to finish it. And I agree it needs a easy path for people so they can get some of the rewards. Me personally will buy day 1 lol
Yay content
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XP caps at 10 minutes
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"I want to buy it BHVR but you have to make it achievable"
That pretty much sums up how I'm feeling about the passes at this point. I want so badly to like this change. I want to put time and money into supporting it. But I also want my time and money to be worth something.
Solely because they were very clear that their goal with this pass was to make it completable within about 70 hours of playtime, I'm still holding out hope that they'll make changes so that goal is actually realistically possible. I too would believe that it was designed intentionally to be unobtainable if we hadn't been explicitly told otherwise. So I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming that they just didn't test it or do the maths properly, because I don't want to believe that what they said in their welcome post was simply untrue.
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I'm not surprised. Every other game that has battlepasses use the same tactics. Make it too hard to complete for casual players so they buy the rest of the tiers.
The biggest problem I have with this is that those other games are free. DbD is a $20 game with over a $100 of dlc. Sure you get to play the new maps even if you don't pay but currently (if we look at the roadmap) those come out at a pace of 2 a year (and 2 map reworks). You can also get the perks for free but you have to wait for them to appear in the shrine which can take anywhere from a few weeks up to a year.
The battlepass just feels like we, the players, are being betrayed.
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Isn't it supposed for the archives' challenges fill the rift? If you complete them all you get to level 70, Ideally.
I thought it was the general idea from the beginning.
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If it takes about 111 hours to finish and it's put for a month (30 days) it's totally achievable for dedicated players.
111 ÷ 30 = 3.7
So that's 4 hours a day and you'll have it by the end of the month.
Alot of people sink way more then that daily. And for the people who don't, you still make most of the money back and still get a bunch of free cosmetics out of it. Seems worth it to me tbh.
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I thought that too, but as it turns out, even if you complete every single challenge, you only get about half the Rift Fragments you need. So the rest have to be earned just through grinding XP in normal games, which will apparently take over 100 hours alone.
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I'm taking the simple route with the rift pass.
I will stick to the free tier, play as much as I normally would, and on the last 48 hours before the rift closes decide if I will buy it or not based on my progress I made.
Rift rewards on the premium track are rewarded retroactively after all, so I lose nothing by waiting.
If I don't progress enough, however, I will, as people say, "vote with my wallet" and keep my money. Hopefully, in some small way, this will make the devs reexamine how the challenges work or deal with any of the issues that might have led to my lack of progression (DCs, matchmaking, wait times, etc, etc).
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Yeah, but it isn't as much as calculated because, while you are completing the challenges, you are also gaining xp by playng. Either way it is too much imo.
Thx for the info.
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That is true, but it's still more than what the devs estimated it would take, and I think that's what's bothering people. But I think if just a few key changes were made to the archives, it would meet that 70-80 hour completion mark, and no one would feel like it was unfair or unattainable the way a lot of people seem to be feeling now.
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It's on the ptb, even the expiration date is simply for reference. They might change it when it comes to live servers I HOPE.
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@SpaceCoconut ok, i do want to add something else to this, as i didnt see it anywhere in your math, but you do also get 300 bonus xp for your first match of the day as both survivor and killer, so you can earn a bonus 600 xp each day. thats of course if you play both sides.
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What's on the PTB? The archives? I was aware of that, that's what I'm basing my information off. But I too hope they make some changes when it comes to release on live servers, and honestly I'd be very surprised if they didn't. Otherwise, what's the point of testing it on the PTB and gathering everyone's feedback?
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You should be hitting 500 exp around 8 minutes and 20 seconds into a match, not twelve. I think the cap is 600 at 10 minutes or something? Plus you get a free 600 xp per day.
'But I don't play both sides' you might say. Well you get the 300xp bonus whether you play 10 minutes or 30 seconds. Do that every day of a battle pass and it's a free 37.5 rift fragments. Assuming the rift is 50 days? Idk.
Anyway, I'm buying in because I have no life, I encourage casual players to sit it out, and as a matter of fact I'd love to see how far the average gamer can get on the free track.
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Archives and rifts are on the PTB. Tomes are also there, but you can't access them.
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the rift is 70 days actually.
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Right, yes, I was aware of that. Technically, the Tome is on the PTB, that's what the area where you get challenges and such is called. Only thing that isn't accessible at the moment is lore fragments. But they've come up with so many new names for things all at once that I don't blame you for getting them mixed up, lol!
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I do not think the devs are allowed to talk about these decisions as they may have strict requirements on the amount of time players have to spend in-game grinding so they are literally forced to unlock things with commercial Auric cells if they wanna reach them in-time when just casually playing, which is a great business model and in turn makes BHVR more money of course.
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Yeah, that's what I meant.
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Even better, that's over 50 rift fragments then, assuming you like cutting it close :p
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He's been tagged in multiple threads like this. Devs are staying very quiet on this one...
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I dont know if anyone has brought this up yet but wouldnt you be earning rift fragments from devotion at the same time your doing the challenges? Im not on PC so I dont know about how it is working on the PTB... but if the math is right then...
(111 hours + challenges at the same time) / 70 days = a bit over 1 and half hours a day.
Add in variances for wait times and challenges you struggle with, it still seems manageable... if you Do earn fragments from devotion at the same time you finish challenges which Im guessing is true.
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Yes thats how it'll work. But they initially said it should only take ~70 hours to complete (an hour a day). Player estimates are showing its around 50% more time. Not to mention some of the challenges seem almost impossible and borderline trolly for the community (Sacrifice multiple survivors using NOED during the EGC, etc). Its like they looked at what people most complained about and specifically implemented it as a challenge. I'm kinda surprised there isnt one that says "As a survivor on your first down - DC" lmfao
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