The Common Cold
============================== WE HAVE TO FIX PLAGUE! ================================= ======================================================================================
So I've mained Plague since she came out and she is by far one of Behaviors crowning achievements when it comes to design and killer aesthetic, but unfortunately her gameplay on both sides feels like a war of attrition. I want to share my experiences with the Plague, who I've played at all the different ranks and have a lot of hours on. She is my favorite killer because she puts the power in the survivors hands but right now her kit is skewed too much toward Corrupt Purge being a game ending force. I will talk about my experiences with her and propose some changes.
============================= CORRUPT AND VILE PURGE!================================
So when it comes to vile purge I actually feel this ability is very potent as it will allow you to injure survivors without having to chase them down, all it takes is one drop of the green goop to start the timer. But that's only if they choose not to cleanse. Cleansing and giving the Plague her corrupt purge is very punishing at the moment while vile purge becomes virtually useless if nobody cleanses. This makes Plague into a killer that loses her power against stronger survivors. Basically stronger survivors can just hold her power hostage. This makes piping on plague nearly impossibly. She feels punished for using her power. While on the other end of this, survivors are locked out of healing and unable to get the points they need (cleansing should give a good amount of healing points and it doesn't) in order to progress and they end up just bum rushing gens instead of interacting with the killer because they can't do anything else. Usually in a plague game, everybody black pips and that's it.
I think that Corrupt Purge is too strong and is part of the reason survivors choose not to cleanse. It lasts 60 seconds. I have ended a game off of one person giving in and cleansing. The raw power of this ability is just a bit too high. Additionally I do think there needs to be some kind of penalty for not cleansing. Action speed regression is what most people suggest but I actually don't like that idea because it's not helping Plague where she needs it. She needs help in the chase. She needs to accumulate Deviousness off her power and she is constantly denied this.
My solution is simple
-Bake Iridescent Seal into her base kit.
All Corrupt Purge now lasts 40 seconds and everytime a gen goes off Plague gets to use her Corruption. From there make her cooldown on Corrupt Purge slower (how fast the stream comes out.) this will open up room for survivors to dead hard or get to cover. This change also lowers her movespeed while holding corrupt purge. It's a good add on and it should really just be a part of her kit. This will make survivors more cautious about poping a gen before their friends have lost the plague in chase. This also makes cleansing less punishing overall because Corruption can't just end the game as easily. It is still strong but pilot now has to manage time and positioning. Corruption is too easy to just slug them all and 4k.
As for Vile Purge I would like to see it stay on objects a few seconds longer and create a splating animation that will happen over their portrait when they already sick and touching something infected to help her track and defend gens. I'd also like to see her granted more bloodpoints for breaking a survivor in one full charge up instead of just getting a drop on them. Currently it's a little over 100 for infecting them and 25 for infecting objects. The issue is that you don't get anything for breaking a survivor. More if you break them in one charge, or breaking at long distance. Either she needs to gain deviousness over time based on how long Survivors stay broken or have the base numbers raised for her BP gain to compensate.
The new iridescent seal could be replaced with something that causes 1 random status effect to accumulate at the half way point of their infection timer degrading (Blindness,Exhaustion,Oblivious, Hindered,or Hemorrhage). Which will stack with the Broken status and won't go away until cleansed. This is a lot like Doctors Iridescent King. Status effects are something Plague mains have been asking for and a pink add on could deliver that without being too oppressive.
==================================== Conclusion =======================================
This still leaves the power in the survivors hands, which it should be. But her power shouldn't be held hostage by survivors once she has everyone sick. Plague shouldn't feel like a war of attrition but a sickness you can fight against. Please let me know what you guys think and let's brainstorm how to fix vommy mommy in a way that feels strong but not oppressive.
Comments
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I’m all for Plague buffs but I personally would rather see Black Incense baked into her kit. With Old Freddy gone, there’s room for a killer with strong tracking and Plague would be a perfect fit.
I would also like to see status effects, particularly exhaustion, and her terror radius being interactive in some way like Doc. I would like Plague to be the bane of a Neaon’s existence.
I personally dislike how playing Plague and against her means healing is off the table, it takes such a huge amount of pressure away from her and denies healing builds entirely. I would gladly settle for Corrupt Purge nerfs in favor of a Plague who becomes a vile force to be reckoned with.
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Huntress go to BHVR.
Huntress lose Red Hatchet
Huntress return to Adiris sad
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@pemberley Black incense feels like an auto win for her right now. But I admit that would be cool. Broken is such a powerful status already I was concerned about throwing too many more into the mix. Clown can stack a whole cocktail of of effects onto his bottles when coupled with sloppy. That only lasts 60 seconds and is rather strong. Imagine being exhausted or oblivious ALL game because you refuse to cleanse.
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Huntress doesn't even need red hatchet head!
HUNTRESS strong like rabid Bunny!
Huntress throw lots of hatchets!
Huntress gonna catch her a man after she help Adiris!
Maybe a Dwit or a Jake! Death by Snu Snu!
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"Black incense feels like an auto win for her right now."
I'm assuming you aren't play at rank 1? Black Incense is definitely not even close to an auto win in red ranks on Plague. Seeing the auras isn't worth as much as it seems with how numerous and strong loops are. Plague is the most loopable killer in the game and there are more than enough pallets and windows to have all gens done before they've ran out. This is the key reason no one cleanses against her and why being 1 hit from going down doesn't mean much. The survivors generally don't care if you know where they are, otherwise Doctor would be super strong and he's not.
"Broken is such a powerful status already I was concerned about throwing too many more into the mix."
It is strong. The issue is currently it's perceived as being stronger than it is because of the above reasons already mentioned.
"Clown can stack a whole cocktail of of effects onto his bottles when coupled with sloppy. That only lasts 60 seconds and is rather strong."
Clown is extremely weak and underwhelming. This is a generally accepted notion by most of the community.
"Imagine being exhausted"
Wouldn't really matter much honestly.
"oblivious ALL game because you refuse to cleanse."
Oblivious on Plague however, WOULD be extremely strong and make staying injured much more dangerous.
To be honest, I do not think Corrupt Purge is too strong. You can dodge it quite easily at most loops, she wastes A LOT of time going to pick them up and since you have to go pick them up you aren't getting it mid chase. This means the survivors have a long heads up that you have it before they are even found. These are some extreme negatives to the Corrupt Purge already. The only time is feels broken strong is when the survivor literally gets caught out in the open with nothing to juke around and that's the survivors misplay.
You say adding gen slowdown to being infected and broken doesn't address her main issue and I disagree completely. Her main issue is TIME. Since survivors don't waste any time cleansing or healing they are doing nothing but gen rushing hard. This is in a world where gen rush is already insane WITH having to heal. This makes her even more suseptible to gen rush than other killers without even taking into account the time wasted picking up Corrupt Purge.
I honestly think she needs either Black Incense at base or a stacking gen repair slowdown based on each survivor that's infected and broken. Just to give you an idea of how far behind she is, you could add BOTH of those things and she still wouldn't even be in the top 3 killers.
I'm just asking for one though.
Oblivious status effect for being infected and broken would be really cool as well though if that was an option instead.
I absolutely adore Plague, her play style and her theme. She's just so underwhelming, gets VERY low points and never gets to use her power. This is the reason she becomes a killer that's just walking around and hitting M1 for the entire game and that isn't fun. This is also why no one plays her practically.
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Healing builds being denied is one of the more frustrating part of playing against a Plague. Nothing like having up to four perk slots go down the drain just because of the killer you're going up against. If we're reworking her to have more access to corrupt Purge, I think it's be interesting if having maximum sickness would just injure survivors one health state instead of breaking them. Then make it so healing or taking damage from the sickness resets it's progress back to as if you just got infected. Interacting with infected objects like windows and pallets would give it a bit of a boost of infection progress.
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@Blueberry I play Plague at high purple to Red ranks every reset bud. I deal with Red Rank survivors all the time, it just takes some grit. I am quite aware that she is very loopable. Please remember that Red ranks are not the target of the devs changes to anything in this game. Red ranks are a small elite group and the changes need to feel right across the board for average players and high rankers. Especially when most people are in green ranks and below because they play the game casually. Red ranks is where the game breaks horribly on both sides. Alot of Red rankers are totally out of touch with the majority of the community because the sweat in their games creates different problems and worse solutions.
What works for you may not work for me.
I personally find Black incense + apple and slugging at the right time to be very easy to 4k off of. You can literally just equip combat perks if you are having trouble. If you need to see proof of the potency of Corrupt just watch any streamer with 3000+ hours. It should be obvious, literally a child could see that it's a strong ability when coupled with being broken. Most red rank players aren't even running ruin anymore, they just slug because that is better at slowing down the game and less of a gamble. Knowing where everyone is and having 60 seconds to one tap all four of them is rather strong I'd say. Just watch Monto sometime, he got corrupt one time in a game and literally the game ended right then and there. The potential of Corrupt purge shouldnt be underestimated. I normally bring two apples and just wreck them mid game with it.
It probably feels bad to use because you haven't really had much of a chance to even use it. Which is the problem. You never get to actually use the ability.
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"Please remember that Red ranks are not the target of the devs changes to anything in this game."
This is one of the games core issues. Every game is balanced from the top down not the other way around. This is what's caused many of the games problems.
"Alot of Red rankers are totally out of touch with the majority of the community because the sweat in their games creates different problems and worse solutions."
I think that's putting quite the spin on it. They aren't sweating or creating different problems and worse solutions. It's where both sides just play optimally and the games poor balance falls apart. Things in this game are currently balanced assuming the person using them is dumb and won't use them properly, which means when they are used by someone who actually knows what they're doing it becomes broken.
"If you need to see proof of the potency of Corrupt just watch any streamer with 3000+ hours."
I never said it wasn't potent, just that you make it seem too strong when I don't believe it is. I'm currently at 4,000 hours so I've put in quite the time on this.
"It should be obvious, literally a child could see that it's a strong ability when coupled with being broken"
It is strong, didn't say it wasn't. If it was as deadly as you say though Plague would be much higher on the tier list than she is and that's for a good reason.
"Most red rank players aren't even running ruin anymore, they just slug because that is better at slowing down the game and less of a gamble."
Most are still running Ruin because even if it was cleanses in a minute that's better than most the other options and slugging is quite a heavy gamble.
"Knowing where everyone is and having 60 seconds to one tap all four of them is rather strong I'd say"
If this happens the survivor group you had were literally dumb potatoes. That is not happening against a competent group of rank 1's.
"Just watch Monto sometime, he got corrupt one time in a game and literally the game ended right then and there."
Monto is the last person to be watching in reference to what we are talking about. Basically all his killer videos are at lower ranks with survivors being dumb.
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@Blueberry Also picking apart my comments and then bashing me personally for them doesn't exactly make your argument any stronger. In fact I would say it makes you look like a weak minded individual because you can't express an opinion without directing it at someone. It's a discussion be an adult and treat it like one. This isn't politics and it's not a hockey game. It's a simple discussion about a killer we both like and would like to see playable at a higher rank without it being morbidly boring. If you can't handle a simple opinion without taking it personally you are a weakling and you should stick to phone calls because written material might not be your strong suit.
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@Blueberry I'd love to brainstorm with you about plague and how to actually fix her if you'd kindly stop talking down to me. Thanks.
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My guy I might not be a hard-core Plague main but I really love playing her in red ranks I don't think she's weak I'd actually say she's pretty good but underrated.
Plague needs perks that allow her to have snowball potential like Infectious Fright in my opinion, if people choose to just not heal at all and start to stick around you will surely get a down at some point (which is also why I like to use monitor and abuse because it's just so nice on her)
She also benefits beautifuly from perks like I'm All Ears, Thanatophobia in combination with Dying light.
But the most important part would be running one of the Apple add-ons which spawn a corrupt fountain from the start or something like Iridesent Seal. Recently I've haven't had a problem with downing red ranks as Plague and I've actually seen a surprising amount of people cleansing themselves aswell. I really think she is just very underrated but I could definetly agree with some buffs to her movement speed while chargin/holding/canceling the purge.
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Not a single thing I typed was bashing you in any shape or form.
You are extremely defensive when not a single rude thing has been said to you.
I responded to each thing that I disagreed with one at a time in an organized manner, that is not offensive or demeaning.
"It's a discussion be an adult and treat it like one."
Please copy paste even one thing I said that was rude or acting like a child.
" It's a simple discussion about a killer we both like and would like to see playable at a higher rank without it being morbidly boring."
If this is the case why are you being so rude and defensive. We have been having a normal conversation about fixing a killer.
" If you can't handle a simple opinion without taking it personally you are a weakling and you should stick to phone calls because written material might not be your strong suit. "
I haven't taken a single thing "personally" here at all. It has been you getting fictitiously upset about imaginary rude things being said.
If you could kindly calm down and continue our rational conversation before you freaked out on me for no reason I would like that.
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In my opinion Plague is a balanced killer. Of course she needs some adjuments in vile purge... Otherwise I can't play her without Thanatophobia and Dying Light.
The problem is: maps are too big. Gens are too close. She can't put pressure like Freddy, Spirit, Hag or Nurse. Also, she is very tall. No mind games with pallets. I wish that devs could give her more tools. I use her in red ranks and I'm doing well but I feel exhausted tbh. You can't lost too much time
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What were you thinking for the vile purge?
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@Blueberry Copy pasting peoples statements and picking them apart seems very personal to me. It seems more like you are talking down to people than actually expressing your opinions. You sound like you are scoffing at me more than you are contributing to any kind of actual conversation. Your format isn't exactly inviting me to come over and chat it up with you. I'd really rather not.
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I don't know exactly, but survivors shoulf suffer a little more. Broken status is not the problem when you have so many safe loops, you agree? Maybe they wouldn't be able to throw pallets or doing fast vaults, I really don't know. Or something involving their vision
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I don't view that as personal at all. It's just making the responses very organized rather than one large mess of a clump. It allows the person to see exactly which things you are responding to.
"Your format isn't exactly inviting me to come over and chat it up with you."
I just don't see how responding to each different topic one at a time is offensive?
There was simply so many things that I disagreed with you on that it would be too large of a mess to put into a large paragraph. That would seem very unorganized and unpleasant for a viewer to read.
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@PoisonN Make it darken like legions stun, kill the peripheral vision. That sounds a little too strong tbh. Like I kinda wish they'd get rid of some of the cooldown and charge add on's because there's no point after initially breaking them. I was running Thanataphobia for awhile it seems to help push them to cleanse. Dying light can really make the game stand still once it gets going. What else are you running that with out of curiosity.
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Kinda like the same problem as Legion being in deep wounds or being sick does not actually do anything to the game play .. Apart from if you ignore it for too long then its either your one shot down or you cleanse.
To be honest I really do not know how to go around it but I do feel like being sick or being in deep wounds should do something at least.
But that maybe to oppressive I dunno but I understand what your getting at 🐷💖
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"I don't know exactly, but survivors shoulf suffer a little more. Broken status is not the problem when you have so many safe loops, you agree?"
I do agree.
"Maybe they wouldn't be able to throw pallets or doing fast vaults, I really don't know. Or something involving their vision"
As much as I would like that I think the devs would find that too oppressive or "unfun", which makes me believe they wouldn't do that. Also if you just unloaded into a fresh survivor they'd have no escape. I feel like we should have it encentivize survivors cleansing rather than punishing the guy we found and tunneling into him.
I like the idea of the vision but I was thinking that's something they would further improve on when Clown finally gets his buff as the vision thing is already kind of his niche with his gas ya know?
What if the survivors period puking while infected and broken made their character pause for the animation? This would make looping much more dangerous.
I do like the idea of an increasing repair slowdown for the more infected/broken survivors there are though as well. I like this particularly because she already has an issue with getting gen rushed hard since they aren't healing and she really needs something to help her slow the game down. Maybe both?
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@blueberry Just go with the clump. It's sounds more like your opinion than an argument. I didn't come here to argue. I disagree with a lot of what you say but I don't pin point everything in a long list. Your intelligence is strong. The delivery is bad. Just wrap it differently and you won't get taken wrong bro. Just having a conversation. You're cool just please stop doing that. It's doesn't look good at all. I'd rather you barely know English and give me a broken paragraph than try to direct your comments AT ME. It comes off as really rude. Anyways I am done with this situation. New peeps are here, lets brainstorm and chat about the killer. <3 <3 <3 <3
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No one here is arguing and I don't think something is a bad delivery just because someone finds it offensive. I think you've been highly oversensitive with this whole thing. That said, we can end it here as you wish since I don't think anything I say is going to come off not offensive to you.
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@Blueberry *rolls eyes* I don't care.
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Then don't keep responding.
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@blueberry ok
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@blueberry Thanks for ruining the post.
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You attacked someone on your post, there is no one to thank but yourself.
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Group hug guys, come on, bring it in 💛
But man oh man do I love this artwork that you opened the thread with. So adorable.
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Love that picture, super cute lol
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Post removed.
Post edited by ThePaleKing_ on0 -
@Unicorn Oh thanks! I usually put a lot of work into the artwork. Photoshop is the best. Here's the real artwork unedited. Just so the artist gets some credit.
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@Unicorn <3 <3 <3 Thanks for breaking the mood.
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Aww, no problem 💛
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i have never noticed survivors not getting cleansed by sinks to be healed. i also don't understand why they wouldn't, i always do. please tell me how she works. i find her quite balanced.
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@bomb1720 Sorry for the late reply. So plague has the ability to projectile vomit on survivors and make them sick. The moment the vomit touches them, a timer starts. The timer is accelerated by performing actions like running and working on gens. It does not progress at all when crouching though and if a sick survivor touches things in their enviornment or other survivors, the sickness can spread. Additionally sick survivors vomit every few seconds, cough loudly, and emit a green haze when they run and she can hear survivors in lockers if they are sick. The more puke she lands on a survivor the less time on the timer. Once the timer runs out the survivor has the broken status effect (The survivor is permanently injured and a cannot be healed). The only way to remove this is to cleanse at the several fountains located around the map. When the survivor cleanses the Plague can go to the fountain they cleansed at and grab her Corrupt Purge. Basically this turns her projectile vomit into a damage dealer. Only 1 drop is needed to damage a survivor. It lasts 60 seconds at base.
Strong survivors typically don't cleanse until a few gens are done, and sometimes not at all. Meaning Plague doesn't get to use her corrupt purge that often in high Purple-Red Ranks essentially turning her into a killer that has to play around looping and manually smack the survivors (Even with them broken, can be a time sink depending on map and survivors skill level). The other strategy I have seen survivors do is cleanse the moment they get sick and hideout all game, which can work on indoor maps and stealth maps like Yamaoka Estate. I don't find stealth the most effective way to deal with her, but it can work for stopping the sickness from every spreading in the first place.
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