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The Shape - No Longer a Viable Killer?
Hello people of the fog/devs of the fog.
(I am a survivor/killer 50-50 player.)
It is with a heavy heart that I come here to express my sadness at the changes for The Shape.
For the longest time, The Shape has been my favourite killer to both play as & to go against. His jump scares on me as a survivor are second to none & when I play him, I know I'm giving that same jump scare to people & there's nothing more awesome than yoinking them from what they're doing! He's the very definition of 'horror.'
It's has come to pass that Premonition & Spine Chill now actually work on him when he's Evil Within 1, the update added Undetectable to that most primitive level on him. This, for me, takes away all the fun of playing him & going against him. At EW1 he's basically just walking around, he's doing nothing, so he shouldn't be detectable, by anything.
This now in turn renders Scratched Mirror (specifically) completely useless since people can detect you at EW1 from the same distance or better, so what is the point of stealth & stalk?
I feel like the devs at this point have hex ruined The Shape. For me, he is no longer a viable killer. The purple add-ons make no sense, Boyfriend's Memo makes no sense, being detected when you're not even using a power makes no sense. That Detectable that's been added to his EW1... no. Just please no.
I hope you Mike Myers fans out there, whether you're killer or survivor or both, will share my opinion here. I would like my Mikey to be put back to how he was before this update. Or at least make changes to the purple Mirror add-ons that maybe prevent him from setting off Premonition/Spine Chill, because mirrors can reflect ya know!
I'm just super disappointed in this change. How do you feel about this?
Take care out there people, it's dangerous in that fog.
😞
Comments
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I don't really feel its that big of a change and people should stop relying on crutch mechanics. (no offence just my opinion)
15 -
It's not a crutch mechanic, Ruin & NOED are crutches. Not sure how you would think of it that way? EW1 is his most basic form so there's no mechanics involved at all, in fact, you're penalised for staying EW1, however, it's a fun way to play him. EW1, giving the jump scares. He's fairly unique in that way. If you play as him often & like to stay EW1, then it is a game changer. I respect your opinion, no offense was taken.
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They may know you are coming, but they don’t know the direction you are coming from. For premonition they do, but it’s on cooldown and there is still a gap where you could be
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I am just as disappointed as you friend, but I'm not sure its going to be tier shifting. Mike is already pretty mid tier, a nerf like this is both in principle and from a balance point of view uncalled for.
But I'm used to the devs nerfing things to cater to low skill players (the consistency was explicitly stated as intending to facilitate new players understanding the powers of killers)
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Myers is fine. Ghost Face has been like this since day 1 and it's never been a problem.
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Ghost Face you can call him out of his stealth. There really is a large difference between him & Myers. Myers has to take a long time stalking, Ghosty, not so much!
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Don't bother. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themself into.
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@CaptainCastle Thank you :)
There should be no babysitting in this game (I don't mean the perk!) There's an array of characters to learn & that's the fun. Nobody should be expected to master a killer or survivor straight away, that's the fun of learning perks & what suits you, plus matchmaking should, 'should' put you in a lobby with the same skill level of players . What's good for one isn't good for another. So I don't understand their intentions.
This is a horror game, intended to scare, intended to drive that adrenaline, if these things are lost, then it's just a glorified hide & seek.
I've only been playing for a year but I had to learn everything the hard way & I'm grateful for having to do so. I bet Dark Souls wouldn't change their intentions for love nor money because it would compromise the integrity of the games.
There's no need to cater for low levels, I mean, Dweet for instance, has Bond. You can find people! Nancy has Better Together, again, easy. Killers have all kinds of aura reading perks & game slowing perks, so there's plenty there to help people learn to play.
I just really want Mikey back the way he was. My feelings are hurt by this change.
4 -
GF is even more severely affected by Spine Chill, because you can call him out of his stealth.
GF is doing fine and stalking survivors even with Spine Chill. And he needs to be unseen in a very short span of time for his power to take effect.
Myers will be fine.
5 -
GF has a single play style: stalk 1 Survivor, take down 1 Survivor
Shape has various: his base ; forever in Tier3 ; forever in Tier2 ; forever in Tier1.
I do concern about "Forever in Tier1 add-on" face a Spine chill Survivor.
Shaper Tier1 need to have Undetectable status. Just alone fog effect on screen cause lower the view angle is already a soft kind of nerf.
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I just finished my level 1 rift, 4k three times in a row with Shape to get the last few challenges done, and I still love it. I main survivor but I've gone through platinum on PS4 and The Shape is by far my favorite killer to play as, and I also love to play against him as survivor. For me, nothing in DbD beats that moment when the music starts the hunt.
Of note, if you are working on the 4k for the rift my son just got his with one person DCing, so that is good to see.
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I would like to imagine that if enough people complain about this, then sooner or later they will address it. Based on the numerous threads complaining about the changes just today alone, it's pretty clear that a lot of people are upset and don't like the changes. So, here's what I think they should do... either leave the 0 terror radius and no red stain changes in place, but make it so absolutely, positively no perk can detect him in any way whatsoever (at least in tier 1)...or just simply revert Michael back to how he was.
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Except ghostface doesn't start out with the second slowest movement speed in the game (105%). It seems everyone really like to forget this part when talking about Myers.
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Uh, i dont get it, tier I is now weak against 2 perks, whats the big deal? most of the time you will want to get out of it as soon as possible, stop overreacting
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To everyone saying myers is fine:
Did you really forget that myers in EW1 starts out with a 105% movement speed (the second slowest killer in the game when in EW1), and that it takes some stalk to get out of EW1.
I'm getting really tired of pointing out basic things.
This nerf hurts him a lot when trying to get out of EW1.
14 -
it Really isn’t that big of a deal.. he isn’t ruined. It’s just a small change. Not everybody runs these perks. I’ve played Michael all day and haven’t seen those perks once. Sooo
3 -
so if nobody runs spine chill and premonition, then the problem is fine I guess...
like OoO against trapper and hag, nobody runs it, so it's fine
(I'm been sarcastic)
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I've seen it on at least 2 people in half the games I've played today. And i was checking.
Not ruining the character, just a senseless nerf and a huge gut kick.
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It’s not a huge change. He’s just Mid-Tier now. Most ppl are in Evil within 2 within the first 60 seconds anyway. This really only effects scratched mirror builds which was already a gimmick. It won’t encourage ppl to play Premonition.
He’s definitely still effective in the right hands.
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I've seen 1 Michael all day and it's really disappointing because I wanted to see a bunch of Mikeys on Lery's but everyone is too scared to run him. Most of my Survivor games no one runs Spine Chill except me because I have nothing else, not that it actually helps me as I go down anyway but still.
I don't play Myers because he has a rough start and his power takes a while to actually use, he is really slow in Tier 1 and if you can't get to Tier 2 fast enough then it's game over. I understand the fears of all the Michael players but don't let it scare you into not playing him, you're still terrifying and the first thing we think of when we see that Lery's offering and get disappointed it isn't you. Spine Chill does hurt you but you don't know they have it until the game is over, it's a placebo effect of believing they don't have it.
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I agree with you, bro. Michael is also one of my favorite killers and this change undoubtedly upset me. But even more upset was the reluctance of the developers to fix / remake / add animation for Michael (and for all killers in general) when he was in the 3rd stage. I want him to hold the knife in the same way that he holds it from the survivors. Even the game itself “hints” about this, when after an impact it tries to put the knife in the correct position.
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A survivor with Spine will never get touched.
The fun about the Shape is actually his Tier1 that trump all Spine chill & Premonition. Not about that helps him to go to Tier2 quick. Its about the true jump scare when you first face the Shape in a trial.
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I don’t see how Micheal isn’t viable, due to this change. Tier 1 Michael is only truly effective vs newer/not highly skilled survivors. It was never his most powerful loadout, so it being slightly less effective against 2 perks doesn’t mean he’s all of a sudden awful.
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I think people are overreacting. You can be spotted by two perks (only that you are nearby, not even your aura). You don't need monitor anymore. Where's the exact problem?
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A killer whose 1/3 of his power could not be overcome besides "use your ears lul" vs trapper who has multiple perks to directly counter his power + an item / lower rarity item with addons.
hag also directly countered by multiple perks and items
And this is at all times for their powers
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Agreed OP and his new outfit is awful as well.
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You’re right, Hag and Trapper need some changes...
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I mean, Scratched Mirror has a counter now, but that's all that happened. Myers is fine
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The counter to scratched mirror (or tier 1 in general) was using your eyes and ears, distortion, loops because he can't bloodlust in tier 1, and sole Survivor. You can't get the jump on anyone anymore with his slowest, yet stealthiest starting tier thanks to spine chill. I'm still wondering why they decided to remove his immunity to spine chill and premonition, but I'm pretty sure it's due to complaints from players that don't bother looking around.
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He hasn't been particularly strong for a while now, but that hasn't ruined "viability" vs swf he's hardly viable anyways and you're likely to have 1-2 gens pop before tier 2. Nothing's changed, except for what @AkiTheKitten mentioned.
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For me, Myers was mid tier before and he still remains mid tier even after this nerf. Spine Chill is overrated and Premonition is straight up garbage, so it's not like you're gonna see a lot of survivors using these perks. You are still gonna see Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, Borrowed Time and Adrenaline for the most part in the survivor builds.
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There's no such thing as a "crutch" mechanic.
3 -
Ghostface has two playstyles. You can try to play him as intended or you can play him the good way where you run sloppy + thana + nurse's and never stalk, using your stealth to get free hits instead.
2 -
Myers was never actually "viable" at red ranks. T1 without a small map hes the weakest killer in the game, T2 hes a trapless trapper, which is better then a hatchetless huntress but is still very weak, with only a smaller terror radius to help him, T3.... again an increased lunge distance trapless trapper----> litterally... the only way myers t3 can work is if you bunch up, then he can snow ball.
1 -
They should have left the way his stealth works tbh.
I main Myers and I can understand the disappointment. Michael Myers is probably one of the most balanced killers because many of the things he is good at, he has to work for or has a downside.
Grabbing people off gens felt good as a killer, and terrifying as a survivor. It wasn’t a “mind game” or a “gamble” it was him at his slowest state and took survivors not looking behind them to get it to work.
While only survivors who have certain perks will affect him, I don’t see how this is necessary at all because as I said he already has a downside.
I just don’t understand this notion from the devs of wanting to make stealth more “linear” when A. he was fine as he was. B. He has less stealth than the Pig and Ghostface because he can’t crouch AND he is way tall.
Michael’s stealth isn’t about “Let me hide behind this barrel”.... He is quiet and makes himself known by standing still. I just hope they stop stripping away these elements of what gives these killers identity and also makes them feel more unique.
6 -
And? once you get out of tier I (which is hella easy) you won't tier down back to it again.
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I mostly agree with this, I’ve played him since I started near 2 years ago and this is just honestly one of the most unnecessary changes...it makes no sense to say it brings him in line with other stealth killers, pig and Ghostface can both have normal movement speed when detected and can control their stealth to a degree, Michael isn’t even consistent with these to start with. You’re forced to start the match in tier 1 at lower movement speed, non existent lunge, no red stain (again Ghostface and pig can do and better) and low TR (now no TR).
Previously nothing detected him (OoO, spine chill and premonition) which is true to his character, he felt unique and you had to pay attention to breathing and steps. The thing that really bothers me is that now what is the point to tier 1, most are saying just get to tier 2, just stalk, that wastes time, at least previously you could get a potential gen grab/stalk or hit on anyone.
At this point tier 1 is nothing but a hindrance, and honestly I’ve always hated it and run stalking addons to tier up ASAP but this just adds to the disadvantages it has always had while kicking scratched mirror builds in the pants, it’s disappointing when all other stealth killers are supposedly buffed by this change, Michael was never involved to start with and now we’re sold that a smaller TR is equivalent to detection...it makes no sense. Not needing M&A because of the 0 TR is also a poor “buff”, I use M&A for tier 2 with dead rabbit, 6m TR was fine for tier 1. Trading off a little TR for detectable status by perks is not equivalent.
Add to that how boring some of his addons are and changes like this with no real substance, it’s not surprising people are switching to Ghostface and not coming back. I haven’t seen a Myers in months and I used to see them regularly even at red ranks, wonder if that says anything. Even I’m playing Ghostface, pig and spirit more than Michael now, he really needs positive changes, not disguised nerfs to his alternate play styles like this. The no one runs spine chill thing is interesting too, I wonder why I saw so many threads on stealth killers and OoO when apparently no one ran that perk...
I’m not saying this hurts my ability to play him because I always hated tier 1 and try to escape it ASAP and didn’t find scratch mirror fun to play, but this just...why was it necessary? Immunity to detection was his tier 1 ability and near it’s only upside, like it or not.
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"T2 is like a trapless trapper" is quite a funny comment - this situation can be created by a team of immersed saboteurs but michael has a faster vault in T2 over trapper so even in T2 he's a better than a trapless trapper
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The Shape's terror radius is pretty much his biggest gimmick, because unlike Trapper, he can get close enough while your guard is down.
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It's not about getting out of it, it's about actually wanting to use it.
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Myers only has a faster vault speed in T3, he also breaks pallets slightly faster... but these speed boosts are next to non existent... the only thing he has is a smaller terror radius which is to give him a better chance to catch survivors off guard... so his counter is simply being on alert..
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I agree
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A simple solution would be to add detection perk immunity to the Scratched Mirror Add-on.
OR
Make him 110% in EWI (GF walks at 115% while in Night Shroud, so this should be OK). No Bloodlust though. Reduce his MS with Scratched Mirror to 105% but grant immunity against detection perks.
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Dude Scratched Mirror had little to no counters, especially on maps with little los checks like some Autohaven maps, Lery's, The Game and the Stranger Things maps. It was op, now it's balanced
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What are you on? Scratched Mirror can be countered by simply looking around, using Distortion, or avoiding areas where he could easily grab you (if a gen is by an opening, you repair it from the side that isn't right beside an opening). His breathing is also kinda loud. If you can't outrun a Killer at 105% MS, then that's your problem. This "fix" is only for "consistency", aka when lazy Survivors complain and the devs need an excuse to nerf something. There was no need to nerf EW1 Myers.
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How can you look around in maps with no los? Like the maps I mentioned? It gives survs no info while the Killer literally was wallhacks all game. Who cares if you're slower when you can gen grab and get free hits
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@AkiTheKitten The purpose of SM is to Jumpscare. Just look around at any time and position yourself well as @SnakeSound222 said. You do not need to see him from 32m away. Of cause you'll take a hit against SM but when you are careful he will never grab you. At least I did not get grabbed once since I learned the counterplay. You can easily loop a EWI Myers and some spots even become infinites against him. The wall hack is the only chance he's getting someone.
1 -
No longer viable? Almost nobody uses spine chill at red ranks, and I don't think I have seen a premonition in months.
It does hurt mirror myers a bit though, but let's be honest; why ever run T1/T2 myers when ghostface exists?
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Myers breathing is very loud. You can still see him coming around a corner before he grabs you. And then you can loop him incredibly easily. Scratched Mirror was far from being OP even on maps it could work on ( because of 90% of the maps this build is useless ).
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