So Spirit is getting nerfed
Because she is “over performing”
and unfun to play against? (I understand prayer beads, nerf that)
But constantly going against swf squads on voice coms with op perks (When they all run adrenaline for example) it is fun for killers right :) I mean we are going by the fun factor here right.. Gen rushing and playing by survivors rule book is fun too right. There are many things that BHVR need to address and help before even considering making nerfs. Poor ruin can’t last more than 30 seconds..
Yes, just ruin another killer because survivors aren’t happy or having a difficult time with her. I play against many spirits. Sometimes I win sometimes I don’t..
so if the solution is “nerf a killer due to them over performing”
then nobody will want to be a killer.
I thought killers are supposed to be feared and not killers fearing survivors.
idk just my two cents @Peanits just because stats show she has a high success rate, doesn’t justify nerfing.
i will patiently wait for that one person who is going to say there is no counterplay blah blah...
And Ghostfsce you are next on the nerf train CHOO CHOO.
Good day y’all.
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Well I'm against nerfing anything in her basekit tbh. just remove prayer beads. thats it from my side.
it is kinda strange that they want to "look into" spirit. IMO Hillbilly is much more frightening.
Oh and buff wraith pls. thy xD
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If they add some tells to her ability I’m ok with that, but if they nerf her actual ability in anyway they’re actually gonna have to create AI’s for the killers, cause people are gonna lose faith.
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Freddy is definitely next lol. I dont have fun playing Legion or Demogorgon, so with your logic of fun=balance where's my buffs?
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Like Prayer beads, change or remove it. Idc, that is fine. Many agree ofc. Basekit however....That's a mistake if they"Look into it" Judging how they "looked" into the Nurse. This won't end well.
Post edited by HeHeBoii on8 -
Here here...This whole idea that killers should be minor obstacles over being actual competition is getting old fast
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I don't like the way the Demogorgon yells at me. I find it very toxic..Oh, when freddy goes "HA HA HA" i scream for a nerf :D
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I get steam rolled by spirits all the time but you know what it's nice to go against her because I can actually LEARN how to play against her. It's okay that she's a strong killer there's nothing wrong with that. Take out the prayer beads leave her base kit alone and that's it.
If anything buff some weaker killers stop nerfing until then.
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got you. the fear is big that they nerf her and she turns out meh. i think the bigger issue is with the players not with the killers. if you play spirit to have fun (ofc everybody defines fun differently) and dont tunnel the sh.. out of every surv you can have pretty awesome games versing her.
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If its any consolation it probably wont be for a long time, they are working on Doc right now. Though my money is survivors will start mass complaining about Forever Freddy or Plague.
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Spirit doesn't have a lot of counter play that doesn't involve using a perk. It's basically a guessing game that she controls, and sure, if the Spirit is predictable, you can make some solid guesses and avoid getting hit. However, when are great Spirits ever predictable?
Also, using a perk to counter a general problem is fine, but using a perk to counter something that rarely shows up is not fine.
She needs to leave blue scratch marks behind her while phasing and to compensate, lower her phase cool-down to 10 seconds. 😁🤗
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Soo, make her Phase unusable? Why should she have scratch marks? That's dumb. Her phase should have like a 1 or 2 sec delay before it starts recovering, that all
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Your wrong about one thing, which is Billy will be next on the nerf list, not ghostface.
They already announced they are going to change Billy's add ons sometime in the future, now we are just waiting for the nurse treatment for them to say, that they will do a "slight" change to his Basekit. After billy then it will be ghostface and freddy.
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The survivor gets no feedback from the Spirit, so how does a survivor counter play something they have no feedback on?
Nurse, when she is preparing for a blink, the survivor sees her raise her arm. This tells the survivor she's about to blink, how long she is charging her blink, and when the nurse blinks, they see her travel to her blink location. All of this allows the survivor to plan ahead and try to out smart the Nurse.
Spirit, she doesn't have feedback besides standing still, but even then, she could be faking it.
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Honestly the only "nerf" she needs is lowered Terror Radius and Prayer Beads reworked, this way she wouldn't abuse TR builds without Moniter and Abuse and her counterplay would be more pronounced without damaging her mindgame. Idk what to do about Prayer Beads, I think either deafening the sound by 50% or maybe increasing survivor sounds in Phase or both would be ok so it's still strong but not overwhelming.
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I'm going to go with, Statistics are showing Spirit with a lower escape rate drastically different from other killers.
So yeah.
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My friend and I who are into DBD have been talking for an entire year of Spirit's problem's. I'm disappointed they were only acknowledged once Nurse was changed.
Spirit is counteractive and unfun. Only now are people realizing it, or only starting to be coval about it now. Everyone who said anything about Spirit a year ago was given the "Yeah but she's not Nurse" treatment and silenced.
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The devs seem pretty concerned about nerfing the high tier killers.
But I haven't seen the same level of concern about nerfing SWF or survivor-sided maps.
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Well said mate, well said. Glad you mentioned that.
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You do get the phasing sound, her shards glow slightly, she snaps back into her default position, her hair snaps straight up. I've seen that video and it does not have enought info on the Spirit's counters. Runnning Spine Chill can make it so that she never finds you or that she can't mess with you with that fake phasing. Iron will makes her unable to hear you. Fast vault windows and slow vault them back, scratchmark jukes... the list goes on. Git gud
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Somebody gets it :)
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Why should survivors be forced to run Iron Will just in case they go against Spirit so they can stand a chance?
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They aren’t, I can counter her without it.
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Spirit has been out long enough to where decisions can be made off of her win rate data. Add-on win rate is tracked as well, so that will help the team to decide what needs to be changed. The end goal is to bring all killers in line with eachother.
"Dont nerf a killer for overperforming" is blatantly pushing people towards playing OP killers instead of trying to balance them all. Buffs and nerfs to make things balanced are what keep the game refreshing and keep it from getting stale. Some OP ######### gets nerfed to #########, and some ######### stuff becomes OP when trying to balance sometimes. The meta evolves. It's what keeps the game interesting.
And literally, there is ALWAYS a 4:1 survivor to killer ratio for every match played. Im a killer main, but from a business perspective it makes sense to take into account the pleas of survivors more than killers. It's the majority of the playerbase.
I play Spirit a lot, because I know she is strong. I would rather not feel like I'm at a disadvantage by playing another killer, just because I'm bored with playing Spirit.
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The Spirits arent too great at rank 20 so that isn't relevant to the conversation
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I play at rank one.
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It won’t be any direct SWF nerf, but I 100% guarantee that when Spirit gets changes something big on the survivor side will be heavily nerfed and tossed in the trash. My prediction is Adrenaline. Calling it now.
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That was aggressive, I'm sorry lol. Make a video or something about countering Spirit instead of making statements without anything to back it up though. Spirit is getting nerfed because the majority of the playerbase does not know how to counter her.
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I’ve made a thread giving advice to countering her exactly how I sometimes do in-game.
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This is good, Reason nurse got nerfed is because win rate was way too high people got bored using her, so they had to move to other killers for a challenge.
Spirit doesn't need a big nerf just a competitive one, Why can't you pass through her whilst she's in phase? why does she get instant reveal on invisibility when wraith is slower in all aspects ( movement and reveal) she's the only killer who can vault without a tell.. things like this make her over powered changing one or two aspects makes her viable and more balanced.
Survivor add on's or perks get nerfed along side killer ones so something will happen. Look how useless pink and purple medkit add on's are now?.. killer see's an instant used you just wait 8 seconds and then slap same as how you counter the DS with a minute slug. How often does anyone actually use a brand new part? it's more of a waste on the add on slot than a help.
?
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If its so easy why don't we go into a KYF and you tell me every time I'm using my power? I guarantee you can't do it reliably whatsoever. I've tested this with people that have claimed they can see all of these things before. Sometimes I would literally never use my power, just jerk my mouse slightly to the right or something, and they'd say I used my power. Using the schoolgirl outfit makes all of this pointless and useless.
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I'm on your page. Smaller nerfs is all she needs.
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Iron Will counters every Killer. Most high rank Killers use headphones and listen for your pained cries if they lose you. Iron Will also counters Nurse as well. Quick and Quiet is also good VS a phasing Spirit as well. Lets you confuse Spirits very easily and quickly and win chases.
Even great Spirits also suffer from their biggest weakness: Collision. They are not Nurse, they cannot go through things. Vaults, pallets, objects... they must respect these. Great Spirits cannot truly ignore loops, they have to path to the Survivor and then hit them.
When a Survivor is at a loop, they can position themselves at weird and unpredictable spots to make it impossible to even run into them. Like just outside a loop, etc...
Being injured does not mean you will get hit by phase too. Great Spirits must respect vaults and pallets. Sometimes vaulting something multiple times can confuse a Spirit. Same for pausing before making another vault. You just have to get into the Spirit's mind. Many Spirits suffer from predictable attempts at reads and can be read accordingly.
But no, you'd rather just throw your hands in the air and beg for nerfs that would, without fail, make Spirit Legion tier. Blue scratch marks? Yeah, no, you just want safe, consistent methods of dealing with a Killer so you can easily loop them for 5 gens and then teabag at the gates and think you're good. That's the goal, that's ALWAYS the goal.
"Spirit's phasing? Well, I'll just do this one simple thing and I can't get hit! Duh huh, I'm so smart, doing this one braindead thing over and over that, unironically, can't be mindgamed by the Spirit!"
I've listened to the complaints. All of them are stupid and boil down to "We don't want to think! We want things to be easy!". You're entitled.
You're also against running Iron Will because you want to run meta perks. And ONLY meta perks. You want to have Adrenaline every game, you want to bring Dead Hard every game, etc... you don't want to switch perks.
It's that simple.
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Did someone hurt you? Do you need a hug?
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They will probably claim to play on PS4. I see this response pretty much every time someone tells a person they should do KYF with you to prove their “counters”.
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Basically you have to let at least two survivors escape each round so your fav killer wont "overperform" in the game stats and get nerfed. Got it. Also, be sure to stay away from red/purple rank as after spirit is nerfed, whos gonna willingly play 4 man swf or just a full set of 4 solo high skilled survivors with no killers strong enough to handle it consistently? lol RIP red rank survivor queues if this happens
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I was going to discuss this further with you, but since you felt like you needed to end your comment with "Git Gud", I'm just going to end the discussion right there.
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If you are saying you can only handle 4 man swf groups with Spirit, you are opening admitting the imbalance of Spirit to other killers.
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I feel like this is being said about me since I have told Scott this before so here is proof.
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So, because she's winning more, that would mean that she HAS to be nerfed... Survivor skill, Survivor rank, Killer rank, maps and other things don't matter... okay. Spirit's strengths and weaknesses definitely don't matter as well. As well as why she's picked so much... 'kay.
""Dont nerf a killer for overperforming" is blatantly pushing people towards playing OP killers instead of trying to balance them all."
On the flip side, "only nerf top tier killers and never buff low tier killers to deal with a major problem (elite "gg ez" Survivor teams who genrush like crazy)" also pushes people towards top tiers. Especially since, because of how the lobby system works, you can't tell if you're dealing with a elite team until you get in-game. You might as well always play it safe. Use your best perks, use the best Killers, JUST IN CASE a team rolls around that will make you wish you brought a mori.
There is a major issue with Survivors that people play Spirit to counter. You would rather be Survivor biased and make it even easier to win as Survivor instead of dealing with the major issue that Killers face.
This is also the reason why nobody plays Killer and why Survivor lobby times are so long as a result: Because it's not fun. Every Killer is weak and has the same weaknesses (which is what you REALLY mean by "bringing all Killers in line", making sure they have the same easy strategy to beat them with), why play Killer when you're gonna be consistently sweaty all the time?
Survivors are evidently going to be getting more BP as well, which is taking away from one of the reasons for playing Killer.
Clearly, Killers must be nerfed so hard until this game dies because the dumb Survivors who complain about "nO cOunTeRpLaY" stop playing because of long matchmaking. And don't even learn why that matchmaking was so long in place.
If one side can't have fun, the other side doesn't deserve to have fun either. Want Spirit nerfed? Compromise then.
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I think the only good and possible counterplay option is to make survivors see the animation as spirit channels, but reduce the channel time, so she can sometimes be sneaky and catch a survivor off-guard.
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So, you're saying there's a issue with the schoolgirl outfit then?
Also, thanks for admitting you want to "reliably" counterplay a Killer over and over. You're exactly the type of person I was complaining about earlier: A biased Survivor who doesn't want to think or try to get into the Killer's head. You want safe, consistent methods of beating Killers that CAN trip you up.
Willing to bet you won't think "no counterplay" when it comes to genrush too and elite Survivor teams.
Morons like you don't understand how big of a deal "blue scratch marks" would be. Because you can't see the bigger picture.
"Ohhhh, Spirit is phasing! And she's phasing THAT way! Well, I just have to do this simple thing and then she can't do anything to me! Dur hur, I'm so good! gg ez baby Killer!"
Where is the "counterplay" to getting your movements constantly read at loops, hmmm? What will the counterplay be to Survivors being able to constantly tell where you are? How will you be able to mindgame them? What is the safe and consistent counterplay to genrush too?
The answer: There is none. Which is your goal: EZ wins for you, a Survivor main.
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I'd would rather just have the devs remove the husk when she uses her power.
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If the stats show that she has a very high kill ratio, then the nerf is absolutely justified. It's the right thing to do. You are a game designer and you see a character having like a 70% kill ratio or something. Of course it would make sense to change them.
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- I said decisions should be made off of her data. How and why are you assuming that survivor and killer rank has nothing to do with that? Spirit's pick rate should 100% be considered along with the rest of the data. You just assumed all of this information in an attempt to devalue my statement.
- I agree that buffing underperforming killers is a valid option normally, but not necessarily in this case, just because Spirit's issues stem from lack of counterplay existing. (I also was quoting a previous comment on this thread, not quoting a non-existent post) The 'gg ez' mentality is just being unsportsmanlike, no matter what team the person is on. It's frustrating and tilting when I see it, but I see it better to brush it off rather than trying to fight fire with fire. Thats how the community turns against eachother and wholesomeness is out the window.
- Not sure what you are trying to say in the next paragraph, if you want to try to reword that.
- Again, you are putting words in my mouth about killer balance here. I absolutely do not believe that all killers should have the exact same weaknesses. I do believe that all of their weaknesses should be similar in the amount of effort it takes to counter/capitalize on the weaknesses. There are of course core fundamentals for survivors in the game, but ideally the amount of effort that goes into countering Cannibal vs the amount of effort that goes into countering Spirit should be comparable, even though they are much different strategies. And currently, it is extremely more difficult to counter Spirit than the majority of other killers. To go along with the 'sweaty' part you are talking about, Killer role is much more intense in this game than playing the survivor role, because its asymmetrical. It's much more stressful and requires much more focus and attention than playing survivor does. Thats what you need to know going into it, and it you don't want to play intensely, either play survivor, or play a different game. Most games aren't asymmetrical and don't have the natural difference in required intensity levels.
- I don't know if this is just me, but I average about half as many BP on survivor as I do on killer. I would say in 90% of the games I have ever played, the killer gets more points than any survivor, even if all 4 of the escape. Plus, BBQ & Chili seems to be much easier to get 4 stacks with than getting 4 stacks with WGLF on survivor. (I consistently use both perks. On survivor, it is a dead perk. On killer, it is consistently known to be the #1 perk in the game because it allows you to consistently apply pressure along with doubling your BPs).
- I wouldn't be upset at all if the survivors with that mentality stopped playing the game. Usually, if survivors can't handle the queues, they swap over and play killer. And they understand the difficulties on both sides. I would much rather play with people that have experience and viewpoints from both sides, rather than people who strictly play 1 role and just complain. Their opinions aren't as powerful because they haven't experienced the other side of things.
- I think you are wrong in your last statement. That's the bully and winner mentality. Both sides should be having fun, thats where the balance comes in. If neither side is having fun, why would anybody play the game at all? Either change something up or play a different game if you aren't having fun. If you are playing tryhard prayer beads Spirit with the mentality of 'survivors need to be punished', i mean... that fits in with the lore of the game and all... but thats the wrong mentality to play games with in general. I just want everbody to have fun and feel like things are fair on both sides. (The latter being much more difficult to achieve than the prior)
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Bruh, do you know who Scott Jund is lmao
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I'll say it before and I'll say it again: buff UNDER performing killers so there's actual variety in choices on viable killers. This shouldn't be a hard task to do.
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This is actually the most ignorant post I've ever read on this forum lol
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You must be new here.
Welcome! ?
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You think Adrenaline is big on the survivor side? lol
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Okay, I'll discuss this with you: Please keep this civilized when you respond.
Iron Will counters every Killer. Most high rank Killers use headphones and listen for your pained cries if they lose you. Iron Will also counters Nurse as well. Quick and Quiet is also good VS a phasing Spirit as well. Lets you confuse Spirits very easily and quickly and win chases.
I actually use Iron Will for a stealth build, and it works very well for losing killers. Recently, I been using Second Wind which also acts like an Iron Will and Decisive Strike hybrid because it prevents grunts of pain and can heal you as you're getting tunneled.
Quick and Quiet is not worth a perk slot for me personally, it's just not my taste and I'm definitely not going to use two perks to counter a killer that I might not always get.
Even great Spirits also suffer from their biggest weakness: Collision. They are not Nurse, they cannot go through things. Vaults, pallets, objects... they must respect these. Great Spirits cannot truly ignore loops, they have to path to the Survivor and then hit them.
Collision is Spirit's strongest area because she can use that to detect where the survivor is at. I also have to disagree with, "Great Spirits cannot truly ignore loops," because well, it's obvious, you can just go around the loop or fake it. That practically makes the loop irreverent because the survivor will end up taking a hit because they have no feedback from the Spirit player.
When a Survivor is at a loop, they can position themselves at weird and unpredictable spots to make it impossible to even run into them. Like just outside a loop, etc...
What if I fake my phasing, see the survivor go to their spot, then phase to their spot? Every Spirit does that so they can see what the survivor is trying to do, then plan ahead for a hit while the survivor has no idea what the Spirit is doing.
Being injured does not mean you will get hit by phase too. Great Spirits must respect vaults and pallets. Sometimes vaulting something multiple times can confuse a Spirit. Same for pausing before making another vault. You just have to get into the Spirit's mind. Many Spirits suffer from predictable attempts at reads and can be read accordingly.
Being injured is like feeding raw meat to a pack of hungry wolfs, great Spirits love injured survivor because they have scratch marks and audible cues. If you are going to vault the same window repeatedly, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot because you're keeping yourself in a vulnerable state. Killers can hit you through windows — especially when you can't reliably get fast vaults when vaulting back through the same window.
But no, you'd rather just throw your hands in the air and beg for nerfs that would, without fail, make Spirit Legion tier. Blue scratch marks? Yeah, no, you just want safe, consistent methods of dealing with a Killer so you can easily loop them for 5 gens and then teabag at the gates and think you're good. That's the goal, that's ALWAYS the goal.
Actually, I suggested a nerf and a buff, here's the quote if you don't believe me: More counterplay against the Spirit, but she can use her power more. This won't make her a Legion at all, and legion isn't as bad as the majority of the community make them out to be.
Also, I just want a fair game where the killer outplayed me with mind games, not because I failed at guessing correctly.
To be clear, mind game =/= guessing game.
"Spirit's phasing? Well, I'll just do this one simple thing and I can't get hit! Duh huh, I'm so smart, doing this one braindead thing over and over that, unironically, can't be mindgamed by the Spirit!"
I actually do a lot of things when getting chased by a Spirit, but that doesn't matter most of the times because you can't always guess correctly, especially when she knows what you're doing and you don't know what she's doing.
I've listened to the complaints. All of them are stupid and boil down to "We don't want to think! We want things to be easy!". You're entitled.
I am entitled to my opinion, and from seeing things for both perspectives, I can say Spirit needs more counterplay that's fair for both sides.
You're also against running Iron Will because you want to run meta perks. And ONLY meta perks. You want to have Adrenaline every game, you want to bring Dead Hard every game, etc... you don't want to switch perks.
It's that simple.
I already addressed this above, I use different perks and Dead Hard is actually a great counter to Spirit, which is why it's used so often. It can also extend chases or correct survivor mistakes, there's a reason why it's in a lot of survivor builds.
I don't like Adrenaline because being down a perk is just not my taste either.
Edit: Enlish is hrd.
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