Do you guys think Moris are fair?
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Keys & Moris are an instant Game Over, they are both fun but also bad for the game because of how easy they are.
Devour Hope is the best example of a fair Mori, 5 unhooks and you can Mori someone, if you spread the damage equally then either 1 or 2 people are on their death hook and that's fair game as the match has gone on a while to get to that point.
Maybe if Moris had a Total Hook Counter then it would allow you to Mori Survivors, this would of course mean Devour needs changes and that the Emblem system does too. As for Keys, I made a thread to get rid of the Hatch here https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/102075/alternative-to-hatch-how-to-get-rid-of-it-while-still-being-fun#latest
I only had 1 person comment on it and we swapped some suggestions, I didn't edit the post because it didn't get enough feedback from the 64 people who saw it lol
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sigh
here, i'll copy paste it again for you, this time in one post:
"for the prep time: how am i, as a killer, supposed to prepare for a key again? the only thing i can do is camp / tunnel the key guy and then patrol the item underneath the hook in order to deny the other survivors the ability to pick it up. this comes at the expense of losing map pressure, which still guts your gameplay. all of that because of a single key, mind you. i also literally said that, unless you specifically look for them in the lobby you wont see them, as survivors love to hide them behind their body if they hold one and the item is very tiny - i also mentioned last second switches (= no prep time at all)"
"moris on the other hand appear in the offering screen, have a loud soundeffect and are clearly visible to everyone in the trial - and even IF someone happens to miss them, heck they can always press ESC in the trial to show the offerings again. they wont be able to take preparations before they enter the trial, though they have lots of time to do that during the loadingscreen and the trial itself. there are 3, not too hard ways how moris can be avoided: 1) be good at looping (this takes no special preparation), 2) genrush (very common when a mori pops up) and 3) stealth."
saying that "last second switches dont count, since they are rather rare" is also not a valid argument, just so you know.
also, this one is important:
"you can play around moris, yet a killer, as i have explained in my previous comment, can not play around the key. the hatch is something that will pop up sooner or later, all the survivor with the key needs to do would be hiding until that happens."
"keys on the other hand can be taken in by one out of the four survivors and still change the entire flow of the game. it doesnt really matter what you do as a killer, if you kill survivors the hatch will spawn and someone with the key will just jump in (even if you kill the key dude, they usually just swarm the hook then to get the key) and allow themselves and possibly even more survivors to leave early. if you however dont kill them, gens will be getting done and they have the exits available. its literally a lose - lose situation."
this pretty much sums up my point very well: the killer has to work in oder to get the mori to work. a survivor can literally hide in lockers all game until their team died, do nothing themselves and still get a free escape for nothing. or they can focus on gens and then escape with other survivors for free aswell.
and now, the important part i talked about before, the part i feel like you completely missed, the part why i told you to read the comment again:
"keys are only really broken on SWF tho. especially if one brings a rainbowmap, they are coordinated on gens and can coordinate their hatch escape, so they get the maximum amount of escapees from it."
THIS is important, and so is this part of my fix suggestion:
"only allow the key user to escape"
these two sum up my main problems with keys perfectly!
i dont freakin care if one has a key and escapes with it, i can deal with that. what i cant deal with is when ONE brings a key and then allows MORE THAN ONE to escape with it.
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Mori's are more fair then keys, and keys are more fun for the user(s) then Mori's. But both are no fun for the other party and good survivors can negate a mori.
Both Mori's and Keys negate objectives, however Mori's are weakest during a killers weakest period (when pallets, gens, and items are plentiful) and strongest while already performing at their strongest. Meanwhile keys begin useless and get stronger as players are removed and both snowball and prevent enemy snowballing.
Mori's can be countered by good survivors cycling who gets hooked while gen rushing, and 'tunneling' to get a mori is stopped by not saving early. Keys are poorly countered by franks but franks is countered by setting the key down in a memorable location.
Killers get punished for mori's with reduced pips, bloodpoints, and needing to spend bp in the first place. Meanwhile the opposite is true for keys.
Lastly survivors see a mori as the game starts and can plan around it. Its hard to see a key, and they can be found in chests thus preventing forwarning.
Its clear which of these is more fair. But nothing beats the feeling of emote twoing your teammates, leading them to some far away location and then 4 man escaping.
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I don't think moris are really fair. They shave off a lot of the difficulty of sacrificing a survivor, many times resulting in a win that wasn't really acquired with skill or strategy.
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What do you mean? Tunneling is a highly efficient strategy (lol)
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As someone who witnessed old mories (which required no hooking at all) , I don't find them OP . Another nerf would make them garbage imo (especially considering ultra rare rarity) .
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I would disagree. By the time you hooked the survivor twice (assuming you are playing against a good survivor) 3 gens will have already popped. I think chasing/injuring multiple people is the most efficient and gen delaying playstyle.
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The Ebony Mori needs to go.
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Not Ebony, no. Not with the amount of BP that killers are able to earn with BBQ and how not even close to being ultra rare they actually are.
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I'll go paragraph by paragraph so that you feel all your points have been addressed (although I already addressed them.
"Prep time. How are you supposed to prep for a key". Step 1: Franklins. Step 2: Be observant during the match in case anyone else picks up the key. Step 3: Kill the survivors before they finish the required amount of gens. Very rarely does someone else pick up a key that someone else dropped unless it's a SWF group.
"Moris on the other hand appear...." As I stated previously, this by default means a killer has more prep time for a key (yes equipping Franklins counts as prep time) if they want to play around it. The survivor just has to adapt once they figure out there's a mori in play. As far as your counters, hiding is not counterplay to a mori because it doesn't progress the game. Hiding just lessens the chance that you're the one to get mori'd fist. "Be good at looping" is countered by my argument "be good at killing" and you won't have to worry about the key being used. Gen rush is also covered under that because if you're good at killing, they can't gen rush.
Saying last second switches are... I know. It wasn't meant to be an argument. It was just meant to point out how statistically insignificant it is because it rarely happens. I haven't seen anyone make a last second switch for an item in months.
"you can play around mori..." I feel like this is redundant and already addressed in a previous paragraph but like I stated above, there isn't really counterplay to a mori, especially if you get tunneled. If the killer isn't complete trash, you a gauranteed to die. The hatch will spawn eventually but the killer is faster and is more likely to find it first. I have no idea who comes into a match with a key and just hides until the match is over, but if that's something that happens, then I'll grant you that one point because that's stupid. Anyone I know plays the game and only uses the key IF it comes to that.
"keys on the other hand can be taken in by one out of the four survivors and still change the entire flow of the game. it doesnt really matter what you do as a killer" That's just false. It absolutely does matter, because if you dominate the survivors especially if you're able to kill them with 3 gens still up, then the hatch won't spawn until there's only one survivor left at which point, statistically the killer has a higher chance to reach hatch first with their higher movement speed. A key is rarely this game changing thing until it's close to or during end game. Moris on the other hand are game changing from the start.
"this pretty much sums up my point very well: the killer has to work in order to get the mori to work. a survivor can literally hide in lockers all game until their team died, do nothing themselves and still get a free escape for nothing." Again, idk who does this but if one ######### does this and escapes themselves with like 8k points because they didn't contribute, oh well. That scenario aside, survivors have to work to use a key and have to accomplish a majority of their objective. On the other hand, a Mori can literally be used less than a minute into a game. Billy gets a chainsaw, hooks the survivor leaves. Someone saves, Billy comes back and tunnels. Person gets Mori'd. I've seen this happen plenty of times under a minute into the match. If that counts as "putting in work", then sure. That's so much effort on the killer's part.
"keys are only really broken on SWF tho. especially if one brings a rainbowmap, they are coordinated on gens and can coordinate their hatch escape, so they get the maximum amount of escapees from it" I would say keys are more powerful in a SWF group, but not broken. If you kill everyone, it doesn't matter whether they are SWF or not.
"only allow the key user to escape" No, that's ridiculous and makes no sense.
"i dont freakin care if one has a key and escapes with it, i can deal with that. what i cant deal with is when ONE brings a key and then allows MORE THAN ONE to escape with it." The amount of work that has to go into more than one person escaping makes it fair.
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IMO Cypress sucks and Ivory/Ebony are too strong. Even one successful Mori early enough can just screw the Survivor team badly, and beyond that it's just overkill. It's not even like you need to put much effort into it compared to normal.
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Ebony mori is broken like it's counterpart, keys. Both used by players who can't complete their objectives. Green and yellow mori is fine though.
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I know lol, I'm just messing since the majority of the forum killer mains talk like that unironically despite the fact that what you say is true
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I would say that the ebony mori is the only mori that is a real issue. It not only can end a game way before it normally should, but it can also cause both survivors and the killer to depip and lose out on a lot of bp.
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I think Ivory's also an issue, but definitely a smaller one
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Moris aren't really fair, but the animations are fun.
I was really sad earlier today. I went up against a Trapper who burned a mori, and I kept stepping in traps and stuff so he'd mori me... but he just hooked me to death and then mori'd someone else before I could even get back in to spectate. 😥 I almost messaged him to be like "Why???" but I don't message people.
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Moris are cool, don't really waste your time and pretty rare. Far more rare however are keys. Keys are totally unfair and also unlike moris, aren't cool. But i don't have problem with them because i never see them
If they ever take out moris they should make moris automatically available after 2 hooks because again, they're cool.
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No. They're definitely not balanced at all. But at the same time neither are keys. Which I guess if your looking at it from a stand point of how your doing on average over the course of a bunch of games then they average each other out. But then there are killers like myself that never use them except for dailies and still have to deal with keys. But on a per match basis Mori's are definitely going to unbalance the match. Mori's should definitely be nerfed.
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