Why are they changing The Spirit?
I don't understand, if any killer has some sort of "edge" over the survivor, instead of adapting and learning counter play for said killer, everyone cries for nurse, I'm a survivor main myself and while spirit is infuriating I have never once felt like she was "unfair" or "impossible to counter" maybe if everyone in the community grew a pair and learned counter-play to a killer instead of calling for nerfs because the killer isn't a basic m1 killer.
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Because she is #Overperforming. I think she is fine and could use some add-ons changes. She is fine base that is my opinion. Also what the heck is Over performing even supposed to mean? Such a weird word choice.
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You might feel like she is fine which is perfectly fine, but the devs have data that she is actually overperforming
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Pretty sure over-performing means that she's performing way too well for the level of skill that's required to play her.
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@KillermainBTWm8 overperforming means she is getting 3-4k average per match where devs want every killer to be at 1-2k
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I don't see why either. They say she's overperforming, but did we ever stop and think that Survivors could be underperforming?
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Overperforming means she is killing way too many survivors per escape compared to other killers. Hence why they are planning to do changes on her.
I don't agree with her getting nerfed to the ground but at the same time I think saying that she is perfectly fine the way she is simply wrong, she could use some very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very SLIGHT changes to her base kit
I am getting tired of all these whiney posts about how much the devs hate killers and want them nerfed, i mean, grow up, sometimes developers will have to do something about game mechanics some people consider unfun to keep the playerbase happy, you like it or not.
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Because she is too good in one game 4x1. We can't have it. All we need is M1 killers with no relevant powers to survivors have some fun runing in circles for 10 hours during infinites and 100 safe pallets until all gens are done! This is so F.U.N
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Which is unfun for killers to get a 1k. Least 2k is a 50/50. They need to rebalance it to put it at 2-3k honestly.
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It's can also be unfun for survivors to expect to die more than the average and with a 2-3 that means the average is 2.5k per match or a 62.5% kill rate.
Ideally depending on skill level it should be between 1k and 3k as it then averages out to 2.
A 4k should be rare and so should all escaping but the reality is people get matched with those who are lacking the equivalent level of skill which tends to make both sides think the balance is worse than it is.
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Because she's one of the only killers that actually makes survivors work to survive
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She's getting changed cause of crybabies who can't stand someone using a character with a small advantage over them
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I understand why she is getting nerfed and Im not against it.
But please,buff other killers.
*cough cough* Plague and Legion *cough cough*
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Dcs...that's the real truth to it
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@Peanits in regards to killers target average, could it just be survivors haven't gotten good enough to counter it yet? Is there a time limit like before you go "okay, the survivors aint getting this lets relook at it"
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cry baby 20-10 rank scrubadubs
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Agreed, but since they balance it towards the lower end it creatures underperforming killers with unrealistic expectations. I would rather it be something between 2 to 3 or like you said 2.5 simply because I think on average they should have a 2k every game with potential for 3. With the skill level of survivors and killer should be able to obtain the 4k if they are good and the survivors are bad. Or all 4 escape if the killer is bad.
Balanced at 1 to 2 is illogical. Then again the system itself is flawed because 1 person should not be equal to 4, but 1/4 of the survivors should not be equal to the killer.
Fundamentally it wont matter tho because skill lvl and the map RNG is there.
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Because she has the least counters than any other killer in the game.
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why don't you just loop back when she phases? she is so easy to play against I really don't know why everyone is so crap
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"Coincidentally, she also happens to average three kills per game if not higher (with the target being two kills two escape). Fun is definitely a factor, but not the only thing that's considered. A game is meant to be fun though, advocating for not making the game fun is a hard sell."
This was stated by Peanits
I don't know how to quote his post so I will you a link to his.
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If 2K is the target, why doesn't the ranking system and BP system support it?
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"2k is the target"
So why are there 4 survivors if the killer can only kill 2 of them? And why can't a killer kill 4 survivors? 4k = OP or what?
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Peanits also said that from back months, so... here is the answer.
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Oh Peanits, while you are here, I have a quick question. Is the performance based on a bar set that covers all Killers equally or is there a different bar for each Killer?
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Where is the answer? I can't see it :(
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I've been playing a but of spirit at rank 1 recently and I wonder if the "lul adapt" posters have even played her. Stridor obliterates iron will and wether you're injured or not your footsteps are loud enough to zero in on quite easily.
Literally all you need to 4K even a half decent swf at rank 1 is ruin, headphones and stridor
I just hope if she does get nerfed or rework they keep the fun feeling of getting a good grudge hit from teleport
To add I agree pls buff plague and legion. I dont even play them on rotations anymore because they're weak but also not very fun
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Hold on...
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#holding
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Quick question how does a survivor compare to a killer? Because survivors objective shouldn't be 1/5 to 1/2 complete prior to a killer having 1/12 complete. Neither should a survivor count as 1/4 of a Killer, but the Survivor should he nearly equal to a Killer.
Survivors Objective is Generators.
Killers Objective is Hooks.
This all based on you 2k average
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I would say no - it's not like spirit played by a certain player is too strong, it's spirit overall, meaning that virtually every survivor had the opportunity to develop strategies against her, and failed.
Speaking of which: I still haven't heard or read any single real counter to Spirit. Some time ago I opened a topic on Undetectable and why it's a controversial ability, and one of the arguments against my thesis was that Spine Chill was a big counter. I started using it and I have to say, it really works well.
But for Spirit? Spine Chill may help not getting found on a gen, but once in a chase it's worthless. Iron Will is as well due to Stridor. So what else? Tru3talent take on how to counter has already been proven wrong, so what's next?
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I just loop back long the same track I was running during phase and she ends up in no mans land
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Is 2k a blanket average, or is the target 2k at a specific rank? Or do you find that the averages don't fluctuate that greatly on an individual killer basis across rank? Sorry, I'm a sabermetrics nerd.
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spirit has collision and can hear your moans if you travel on your same tracks though. Any half-decent player would just get you in the open at that point.
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I mean, I get that you guys are trying to please everyone in this game community, but in my mere mortal opinion, this game was introduced to me as a horror game, the fact that when I see a killer I'm "afraid" of him/her should be the base of the experience, by making all killers a 2k average wouldn't it promote an "I can handle him" feeling for experienced players like myself (I'm talking about ranks) getting us out of the horror experience?
I mean, it's just an opinion, but I would gladly appreciate a more complex explanation of why you guys are seeking a 2k average for killers that's better than "both sides should be balanced" in a horror multiplayer game where I want to feel afraid of the killer (again, I'm just talking about my opinion, I'm not stating this should be where the game should be headed, actually I adore this game and that's why I'm inmersed in forums and play each night)
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I get it, its still counter play and it works a dream for me tbh but I get that im not the community xD I am a mere mortal
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Dude you should know full well the "horror" argument goes no where in this forum, as much as I agree with you
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If 2k is the target, why does it feel like the emblem system expects a 3-4k?
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What about those of us who don't use headphones? ?
Also, can you explain to me when she all of a sudden became op and unfun to play against? It seems to have come out of nowhere with no one giving an exact reason as to what changed that created this situation. As far as my research has gone, nothing has changed, people just moved on to complain about something else after Legion. I could be wrong though.
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Dude! I know! But I do believe this is dumb AH! Freddy Krueger is chasing you FFS! Michael Myers is stalking you FFS! You should think "OMG! I need to run/hide/get away", not "Ha, I'm gonna 360 him", LOL.
I do get you man, but I wanted to ask the devs directly to know what they think about it
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I'm not confronting you, trust me, I just want to know what is a reliable counter play for people who do not want Spirit changed :D. *
I'm just saying that even if sometime it could work it is not a counter. And it is not because if your opponent knows how to play Spirit it simply doesn't work. It's like saying that to counter Huntress and avoid her hatchet you just need to crouch after throwing a pallet.
Yeah, it could work sometime, but it simply shouldn't :P.
Compare it now to my previous example of Spine Chill + Undetectable: spine chill is a counter, because the killer simply cannot stalk on me without me noticing.
EDIT: * to me it seems that the ones that don't want Spirit changed are not stating that because she's fair, people just can't play against her, but I can! - it's exactly for the opposite reason: Spirit is a killer that can destroy even the strongest swf team, and that should be part of the game. In other words, they don't care about balance, because if unbalanced swf team exists, than even an unbalanced killer needs to stay.
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That's exactly what it is Angela, they nerfed the nurse after the complaints and now they need something else to complain about until all the killers are cucks
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If a 2k is the target then you shouldn't black pip like everytime when killing 2 Survivor's. That would destroy the purpose of this "target".
And regarding black pips, most of the time you even black pip with 3 kills and derank with 2 kills. Not a good target.
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I believe the SPIRIT is exactly what she is supposed to be. We forget that each survivor and killer have there on difficulties settings.
Some characters are harder to use than others. For example...
One killer would have a green line= Easy
One killer would have a yellow line= Intermediate
One killer would have a red line= Hard
Which means if the SPIRIT is hard to use, like the NURSE and FREDDY KRUGER, then in kind, they would be hard to beat/counter. No one like the SPIRIT because she's hard to keep up with especially during the phase attack. Although this killer is the slowest of all killers, one likes the NURSE because she blinks which is like fast travel/teleporting. No likes THE HAG because when the match is near finished she can set traps under the exit switches insuring no escapes. These are the things people struggle with
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If 2k is the target: 2k is for the average player.
Between ranks 15-8 a 2k is more than enough to even pip, otherwise what's more average than a black pip anyway :P - if you want to advance you shouldn't be the average player though.
The real problem is when I get a 4k, 10 hooks, 2 gen left and still I do not double pip because I have gold Gatekeeper instead of Iridiscent :P
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but spirit is NOT hard to use. she is easy to play as and easy to 4k with. as i and others have said before this is a matter of headphones. even the devs have said she is overperforming just get over it.
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It is less of a counter and more of a play style. You NEED to be unpredictable, force her to make reads. She has the advantage, as she should, so you need to force her into an unfavorable situation. For example, say you are being chased around a jungle gym with a window. If she phases, drop the pallet and walk to the window, after you slow vault the window, run away from the loop. The Spirit will have used her power while in the jungle gym, meaning she cannot use it to catch up with you. If she still follows you, it will take her a long time to catch up which means you win. She SHOULD give up the chase at that point though.
This is what I do, it seems to work very well.
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The if she phases argument makes the rest a bit problematic: you can't know if she's phasing or faking it, and there's really no need for spirit to phase before reaching a favourable position (that is: either near the window or the pallet, in your example).
Plus spirit doesn't really need to make reads, she needs to follow you, by sound or scratches. Slow vaulting won't help you :P.
If you have a video of one of your games against a Spirit I'm curious though!
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You do, actually, Spine Chill tells you. Also, with the new sound update, her phasing overrides the chase music. It is very noticeable.
She does need to make reads, they may not be Nurse levels of reads, but she does need to. You have to force her though, by playing unpredictably and just weirdly sometimes.
I do not have any videos, I play on Xbox, so it is somewhat difficult but I'll work on it!
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I think that's a bug and not an intentional change
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Either way, it exists. It is a decent change and honestly, solves most of my problems with her.
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