Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
The only rework that I think the key needs
Hi everybody How are you? I just had a match usng the shape against a SWF team, two kills and three gens done (only a Steve and Claudette remains), after searching the remaining survs I saw them and the Claudette rapid clicked with the flashlight (I was very far but they knew that I saw them) then both ran to the hatch (both with keys according to the post match screen, odd because I saw in the lobby that one of them had a flashlight instead of a key).
So I was thinking in this rework (edited after talking with some users)
- It takes 10 seconds to open the hatch with a key.
- After using the key, the owner automatically will jump into the hatch (like now)
- If all the generators are not powered then the hatch will open just for the key owner but won't trigger EGC (because EGC triggers when the hatch is closed)
What do you think?
Comments
-
I think that keys already require you to do most of your objective and that while a killer can get a 4k with a mori which is an OFFERING, a survivor can't get a 4 escape easily with a key.
4 -
Well, it's not easy of course... unless as I said you're a 4 SWF team. Solo survivors won't have any problem with this change but a 4 SWF team that knows who has a key will have a easier escape if the killer can't apply enough pressure because he's slower.
0 -
The only nerf Keys need is that it should take 5-10 seconds for the survivor to unlock and open the hatch. That way survivors couldn't just open the hatch with a click of a button during a chase.
Moris should be changed so they can only be used once every survivor has been hooked at least once.
2 -
Yes, I know how unfair moris can be by first hand haha. And yes, maybe 10 secs is ok. Would be cool to see it tested in a PTB
3 -
In what world is the killer slower? You realize survivor move speed is 100%. Every killer in the game(bar Nurse who technically still travels farther faster), is faster than 100%, most have a 15% speed advantage...so...uh? That said, what does any of this have to do with keys needing to be nerfed? I was basically saying I don't think keys need to be nerfed. I know some people want to go after everything under the sun to make sure one side has nothing left to win with, but come on, survivors are still grieving the death of med kits as a whole.
The "counter"(lol at counter when both allow the killer to get the same or more kills than is balance standards) to a Mori is a key, but moris significantly reduce the work a killer needs to kill everyone. A key on the other hand does not significantly reduce the amount of work survivors have to do to escape, but instead makes it easier for survivors to escape using the key the more the killer is winning. In most cases with a key, a killer will kill 2 survivors. That's a supposedly balanced game. In most cases with a Mori, a killer will kill at least 3 survivors AND they can still bring strong addons because it's an OFFERING. That is unbalanced and yet we have people complaining that keys need to be nerfed instead.
0 -
Keys skip gens, Moris skip hooks
1 -
Killers can move much faster using their ability (Hillbilly sprint is like 270%)
0 -
Keys don't skip gens if 4 people escape. Moris skip hooks regardless.
0 -
If 4 people escape, they can just use the doors.
0 -
That's my point. They did pretty much their ENTIRE objective to get a 4 escape. Killer has their objective almost halved because nearly every killer that brings a Mori is crab walking from point A to point B with their eyes set on that hook to get a 4k.
Both keys AND moris create the same conditions, the killer WINNING.
1 -
How about you get good instead of complaining they did enough gens to make hatch spawn and they found it all before you did anything.
0 -
As a killer main, I think keys are fine. We have moris, most killers will just mori a survivor after their first hook, which you can’t argue that it’s not op. I ALWAYS pay attention to what survivors are holding, and if it’s a key I eliminate them immediately. Also, you can check under the hook after they’re dead to see if they had a weaved ring or if it’s dropped for others to pick up, watch out for that.
0 -
Well, as a survivor main. Yes, they are OP. Specially if a killer hooked you in less than a minute of the match and then camp you to mori you. (wich is really frustrating) About the key, I saw the Claudette but the other one I swear it has a flashlight and not a key.
0 -
Maybe I didn’t come out clearly, I am saying that moris are definitely op so I think survivors have a right to bring keys.
0 -
I am not saying survivors can't bring keys. I am saying that there is a way to make it fairest for killers. I am not angry or something. I killed two and hooked them twice so, it's a victory for me.
0 -
Complaining? Am I looking like someone who complains? The match that I had was an example, and it's funny that you say it when I got 2K and hooked them twice, so it's ok for me.
0 -
If even one person dies before all the gens are done, the key is broken and allows 3 free escapes. If all the gens are done, may as well have not brought a key.
0 -
Except a Mori allows 3 free kills and one near guaranteed kill. A key for 3 to escape requires them to do 4 gens, one gen less than average. They still have spent a significant time in the game. The amount of times 3 people escape with a key is laughable. Most of the times when I see someone bring a key, only one or two get out, but almost every time I see a killer bring a mori, he's getting a 3-4k unless he's bad.
Your argument is that killers should have an easy game when they bring an offering while also being able to bring strong addons, whereas a survivor should have a difficult game when they bring an item that is far weaker to a Mori in comparison while also having a weaker offering option.
0 -
I never said any of that. I said keys are the survivor (of which there are 4 instead of 1) equivalent of the mori.
0 -
Imagine if the killer could bring 4 moris or 8 addons. Their job is intrinsically much harder.
0 -
How would 4 keys be any different than 1? One is pretty much the same as 4. All 4 cannot get out unless they do all the generators. This logic is silly. If 3 other survivors had keys, that just means each individual survivor wanted a chance to get out through the hatch if they needed it. You're not likely to kick a hatch 2 times unless they're memeing. The outcome would be the same whether it was one key or four keys.
No, you defended the use of a mori, but said that keys needed to be nerfed. That's calling for survivors' "counter" to be weaker while killers being allowed to still have easy games when using a mori. Again, BOTH keys and moris require the killer to be winning, outside of very few edge cases(Or rather, moris help the killer win, and keys are used when the killer IS winning and for the most part make it a "balanced" game of 2 kills 2 escapes).
If anything, if moris are not gonna be nerfed, keys need to be buffed. The hatch should spawn after 2 generators are completed regardless of the amount of survivors to equate to the use of a mori in a match.
0 -
Reading comprehension is not a skill gifted to many, I can see that now. You're pulling arguments out of thin air. Never once did I defend moris, nor say that keys need to be nerfed. Please calm down. ?
0 -
If you're not defending moris or calling for key nerfs(which is what the OP is calling for, then what exactly is the point of anything you've said thus far? You're not just engaging in the conversation for nothing when replying to me directly.
0 -
Please re-read my posts before attempting to commentate on them. ?
0 -
I have re-read them. Again, if you have absolutely no point in saying what you have said, which already seems very anti-key, then why are you even replying to me? That's what I'm not getting. You're either replying to me to argue with me against saying that keys do not need to be nerfed, or you're just engaging in the conversation for absolutely no reason, which does not make sense.
Aside from that ONE thing where you said that keys skip generators and moris skip hooks(which is not true for the intended use of either, assuming moris are intended for 4ks and keys are intended for 4 escapes, which would be balanced), anyways. Both are pretty much saying "Hey, the killer is winning this round", except for a few outliers.
0 -
If it's ok for you why are you here griping that keys need to be reworked so your match doesn't happen to you again?
0 -
Not everything needs a reason. Stop trying to read so hard into it. ?
0 -
I disagree with the changes you suggested mainly for one reason, the prioritize one side over the other. If, and only if you had suggested terms applicable with that of nerfing Mori AND toolboxes (Both allow quicker objective completion). Then, maybe this proposistion could be considered. Not only that, but these changes seem heavily biased (every post can be slightly but this post appears to stem from ONE match) therefore these would not be rational changes. All in all, these changes aren't balanced because they focus on heavily restricting one side (survivors) over the other (killers/other items).
Also in my opinion, I'm all for the removal of Mori's, Keys, and toolboxes (all allow for quicker objective completion). However, What you have suggested isn't the best way to accomplish this I believe.
Tl;Dr these changes shouldn't go through because they favor one side over the other.
0 -
Unnecessary
0 -
Dont sugarcoat it and call it a rework as if things are worked around. That would just be a straight up complete nerf (I only really agree that it taking time could be good for the game but not nearly 20 seconds, just enough so survivors can't do it midchase and do a fat tbag
0 -
Well, I put 20 secs as an example. Doesn't need to be that amount of time.
0 -
Hmm if you're not in a chase and see the hatch then it's not punishment for them. The only thing that punish is when someone try to catch your attention makng noises because the hatch is at their side wich is an unnaceptable behavior. I mean yes, you won Why do you need to brag about it? The EGC as an example helps about the ones who were waiting in the hatch 30 mins more or less making noise so they could jump in front of the killer.
Also. Why everyone brings moris to the thread? Don't missunderstand me, they need some sort of rework but not being removed.
About the toolboxes. A toolbox is not an issue but is it when 2 or more are in the same gen. So What we could do? 2 survivors in the same gen repair it at 2x (40 secs) wich is a huge improvement, so instead of 40 secs. Why not 60 secs? So toolboxes won't be a big issue there.
0 -
Because a main killer doesn't deserve to be humillated because he lost? I am a main survivor but I get angry when I see another survivors bullying the killer, such behavior should not be allowed.
0 -
Just make keys only allow the user to escape, ez balance
0 -
The suggestion is really bad just because how the game works currently. It creates a lot more possible situations where the KILLER can abuse the hatch, They do it now and they will even more with such change. As we know hatch spawn is random. That is a problem itself. If its close to the doors it may create a situation where you cant use it even if you have a key which is stupid. The fact the killer can also see the hatch when it spawn is another problem. If the problem is only when survivors insta hatch while chansed then this should be changed only for WHEN you are chased - for example you can't open it - that is all. Otherwise same rule has to be applied to the killers - they should need 10 seconds to close the hatch too so they can't close it in survivors faces the same way they jump in it. Also if you are the last survivor OR all gens are done and one of the doors is openened this should not apply cause either all the objectives are the done/ and/or creates camping sitation
0 -
There is an achievement, that's why I put the condition that only allow the key user to escape only if the generators are not powered.
0 -
BHVR pretends achievements don't exist anyway. There's bugged achievements on console that have been bugged for months, the killer adept achievements have gotten way harder with no compensation, etc.
0 -
This is a moot conversation. I have brought so many keys into a game and either:
A) Died before the hatch was revealed
B) Never found the hatch (These are such a pain to find)
C) Didn't need to use the key and waste it (or an add-on) so I just left out the door
The key is fine as is, it guarantees nothing with bad gameplay. Even if you get out, if you're not survive with friends it's really hard to let people know, "I've found the hatch, let's go". This game needs to stop making changes because survive with friends abuse it.
When I put on an Ebony Mori there are only two outcomes I've had:
A) 3k
B) 4k
I don't like using Ebony Mori's because it does directly affect other players BP earnings, but when the Rift gives you tasks like kill all four survivors in one match... it's just an easier way to accomplish the task.
0 -
I already explained. The key is fine if you're a single survivor. If you're a SWF it's not the same. As a single survivor you depend that a team helps you to get 2 gens done.
If I am a solo, there is no way (unless using the map add-on that creates a light) that another survivor could say me "here is the hatch". As a SWF I can say "the hatch is in the killer's shack" as an example, let's suppose there are 3 survivors and 4 generators done. One can say "ok, I will use the infinite in the coal tower" and buy time for the team (2 people in this case). Then when the survs open the hatch and escape.The guy will either escape via the hatch or if mr. killer is good and I refuse that he get bloodpoints he will DC.
I am not saying that having four people escaping through the hatch is easy but is certainly easier if you're a SWF team.
0 -
This is the most reasonable solution I have seen around reworks for these items. I would still vote for ~5 seconds for keys because keys are so rare but requiring some time is reasonable.
1 -
I think changes to mori and keys are necessary, because are unbalance and makes the game with that unfun to play. Ebony mori is clear to much strong in the way it is now, almost free kills...also keys are almost free escapes tutor now, you can took a member with also a map in the team and when you found the hatch and decide to escape is instantly at least 1 free escape. And that's also not fun during end game for the killer to control exits gates and also the danger of the hatch. However I'm also agree that everithing unbalanced that speeds to much tha game is not good for the ealth of the game, after waiting for serching the match and lobbys etc. Devs resolve the situation of match hosting with end game and the possibility for the killer to open the gates if the match goes to much long. Now they have to make better with the too fast matches problem (gen rush also).
1
