An argument For/Against Ruin
Now before I hope into my many cons against ruin I like to start with a few extra posting rules.
-No get good comments (player skill is irreverent and were objectively looking at how ruin effects the game)
-No just comments unless its in the word justice (just in a statement self defeats anything that comes after it so please refrain from using this blanket term)
Now that we have that out of the way and we can have a civil discussion lets start
Against: Ruin to me does exactly what its called it ruins the game. It does this by doing two things first taking your hard work learning to hit skill checks and makes it worth nothing, second it turns the game into a needle in the haystack. So survivors are left with two choices work on generators getting more of their work undone thanks to ruins consistent regression, or wonder around for 5 minutes or more hunting for the totem which the killer is most likely guarding. Mean while the killers hunting people down one by one and you watch people drop like flies and if you chose the option of look for the totem your probably de-ranking thanks to no blood points given most of it comes from doing generators.
For: On the other hand killers need something to help curve the speed of survivors doing generators.
So how do we go about fixing this? My suggestion is lets completely redo ruin to where its not so toxic. I've personally been thinking to make the game more interesting depending on kill/survivor rank the repair time slightly increase as you level up to make it more challenging the higher you go. Ruin could be changed to not be a hex and add some repair time to generators as a suggestion as well. Which slow down the survivors, not make the game a needle in haystack, and enjoyable for both sides.
Please feel free to comment but please stick to the rules
Comments
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I just came back to the game after stopping just after Pig came out, so the Ruin is 100% Meta was new to me. And honestly? It’s made me a hell of a lot better at hitting great skillchecks. I muck up enough it’s definitely somewhat punishing, but I don’t personally feel it’s the destroyer of games you’re making it out to be.
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You shouldn’t be looking for ruin for 5 minutes, that’s how you lose games. (1) practice hitting great skill checks (2) check totem spawn areas near gen, no hex totem, do gens
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Tell the Devs to fix the gen issues, and ruin doesn't really ruin a game, if you can't get the great skills, well, good practice, and it makes gens about 20 seconds longer if you're super unlucky, gens normally get done in 10 so 30 seconds on a gen, that's game changing, it's more enjoyable and not a business as usual for survivors, plus, after a quick search as you go about or when learning the spawn points of totems go to each if you really must, that'll take 30 seconds, a whole ruin based gen, and then back to 10 second gens, ruin isn't the issue, gens are
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What the hell is this post? You're literally saying that it's not fair that you have to do extra work or get better at the game, and then you start off the post saying that you don't want to hear those answers because you know that's what people are going to tell you and you think it's irrelevant. Bruh. What the hell is your rank? Hours?
Not sure what game you're playing, but even as low as purple ranks you have people eating through ruin and STILL completely gens. At red ranks they sometimes choose to ignore it until they've completed a few of them. Even when they don't eat through it it's still far too common for the totem to get cleansed barely even 2 minutes into the game, there's even plenty of times when it gets cleansed in under 1.
Though if you want to talk about toxic we could sit here and talk about all of the super toxic survivor perks.
Even if you don't want to hear it the answer remains the same. Get better at the game.
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I'd sooner hate Pop than Ruin. I can work with Ruin, but Pop is the real game ruiner for me. But it's whatever.
I'd sooner like to see a nerf on Ruin (not a complete rework) though ONLY if they nerf gen speeds (because I've heard numerous big streamers and people complaining about gen speed so I wouldn't be surprised if gen speeds got nerfed one day). Otherwise, I see it being fine as is.
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Get good
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Most of the people on the forums are in the red/purple ranks. That's why there is typically limited support here for fixing Ruin. Red rank survivors do not see a problem with it - They can hit the greats 90% of the time and also know the Ruin spawns. The problem with Ruin is for all the other ranks. It sucks as a survivor because its tedious to deal with and it sucks as a killer because you feel that you have to run it, because there aren't other perks that are good enough to slow down gen times effectively.
I'd happily see it out of the game completely, then rebalance accordingly.
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@JawsIsTheNextKiller said:
Most of the people on the forums are in the red/purple ranks. That's why there is typically limited support here for fixing Ruin. Red rank survivors do not see a problem with it - They can hit the greats 90% of the time and also know the Ruin spawns. The problem with Ruin is for all the other ranks. It sucks as a survivor because its tedious to deal with and it sucks as a killer because you feel that you have to run it, because there aren't other perks that are good enough to slow down gen times effectively.
I agree.
Ruin should, to quote a well-known YouTuber: slow the game down just a lil' bit. But it's affects are too varied depending on map, RNG, perks, add-ons, killer type and player ability. Ruin has the same mechanics for red ranks, were it's often a slight hinderance, as it does yellow ranks, were it's often devestating.
There are too many games were, as killer, your Ruin totem gets destroyed within 30 seconds. But there's also games, as survivor, were the totem lasts most, or all, of the game. If the killer is strong (player skill, killer type, perks, etc.) or the players are weak, then Ruin can be overkill, unnecessary and not fun.
There are other perks that slow down generator progress: Corrupt Intervention, Pop Goes the Weasle and Thanataphobia.
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@Blazing91 said:
So how do we go about fixing this? My suggestion is lets completely redo ruin to where its not so toxic. I've personally been thinking to make the game more interesting depending on kill/survivor rank the repair time slightly increase as you level up to make it more challenging the higher you go.
I agree that some of the game mechanics, including perks like Hex Ruin, ideally need to be "geared" according to survivor rank. The same game mechanics, such as perks and add-ons, have the same rules and stats, despite player ranks.
I believe that the game needs an overhaul to balance game aspects according to player rank. Changing gen completion times according to rank, would be a good start. Perhaps then we'd see a refreshing change were Ruin is not so heavily used at higher ranks?
Also, I believe players should have individual ranks per killer. So a player could be rank 4 spirit, but rank 12 clown.
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Ruin is a needed wild card at this point.
Gens get done WAY too fast otherwise. Even with ruin, they can go too fast.
Hell, I’ve had plenty of games where no one even goes for ruin and just goes through generators like it’s nothing.
But I’ve also had games where it completely messes up survivors and costs them the game. And games where it’s gone in like the first 20 seconds then bam, wasted perk slot.
If ruin bothers you so much, run a map or detectives hunch.
right now, ruin is literally the killers greatest asset, one that can easily be taken away. Or it can win them the game.
As survivor, I almost always run a map solely for ruin (well, and inner strength)
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See this is the kind of thinking, I’m looking for a meta change. Where ruin isn’t the end all be all staple that every high tier killer has to have. My biggest issue with ruin is the negative progression and stalling when you hit good skill checks. As a player you’ve been shown from day one this is a positive thing to do, now their punishing you for doing the right thing. This is counterproductive and can be highly discouraging.
Now many of you have question my rank. Yes I’ve topped out at survivor 4 (almost 3 miss that last pip every time), as for killer I’ve topped out at 9-10 don’t honestly remember I don’t play killer much as I spend most of my time with friends playing.
Now that its out of the way. Let’s talk about why I didn’t want the get good comments. Skill is relative and that why I really like Impacts quote he sees that and the big picture of how the perk effects the game. I want the game to develop forward making things more challenging for both sides. However, you can’t build a game for only the top end competitive players, casuals must consistently be a consideration in game play. With that said like impact stated most people on here are the higher tier players. Then I like you to consider if you truly want a challenge let’s make a campaign to the devs to adjust generator repair time based on killer level, and have ruin adjust to help shift the meta. This make the game consistently harder for survivors the higher you go but one of the greatest weapons of high level killer has would be striped away forcing all new builds. I understand this can be a slippery slope but as Impact stated ruin current just has too varied of an effect on the game to allow it to continue as it currently is.
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Ruin has no killer/survivor interaction. I keep finding this silly circumstance where killers just camp their ruin and let the gens get done around them. They need to rework it, buff Thanatophobia and Dying Light. Honestly I think an interesting idea would be to rework it to an endgame perk and make survivors do 6 gens instead of 5 and it reacts with NOED. Then they can rework some other hex perks to be more viable, I honestly think Huntress Lullaby needs to be an on hit effect since it's too weak and too noticeable.
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they cant cleanse ruin if you dont have ruin
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While I do think most survivors run around like chickens with their heads cut off resulting in no progress in the game whenever there's a ruin in play, I don't think it really needs any changes. It helps survivors get better at skillchecks IF they're not doing what I mentioned above. The only thing I think needs changes is survivors doing exactly what I said whenever ruin is in play, but that's not likely to change any time soon.
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Look, Ruin is basically mandatory on any killer without any sort of mobility, as in Pig, Wraith, Hag, Trapper, Myers, Ghostface, because it's the only way for them to apply any real sort of map pressure.
That being said, it sucks on a Survivor's side. Especially against Hillbilly or Spirit. If it does as [Well know DbD Youtuber] puts it: "Game the slow down a little bit just", why don't we make it LITERALLY slow the game down. Make it so that Survivors have a permanent slowed effect with Hex: Ruin, similar to how Sloppy Butcher slows healing.
This means that it can just be powered through, without having to rely on great skill checks that lower ranks can't quite hit yet and not have people dedicate to hunting down the totem.
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