Why do killer mains think DS is OP and not head on?
I seem to find a new thread everyday about how DS is overpowered and needs nerfed but I never see anyone complaining about head on.
Decisive strike is a 4 second stun that can be used once maybe (OP)
Head on can be used infinite amount of times with a 60 cooldown (not OP)
Am I missing something because it seems people just complain about non issues?
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Likely because if how annoying it is not to be able to punish any bad play made by the ds user for 60 seconds..and during the egc..its almost always a free escape..a rather poor reward for not tunneling all game
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Head on requires reaching a locker.
Decisive punishes a killer for survivors stupidity(running into the killer by accident after being unhooked), or can be used as a weapon, because you are essentially untouchable for 1 minute, and can do whatever you want (unhook in killers face with bt) (body block for a friend)
It needs to deactivate if the killer hooks someone else, they are not tunneling if this happens.
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I see people complaining about head-on quite a bit. As a self described killer main, I see no issue with either. If I get head-on'd or ds'd, it was my fault. Head on is a good perk (on paper) but once the killer knows you have it, the effect becomes less and less strong (like ded ard). And of course if you make a mistake you can be instantly downed. Head on is all about High riskn high reward, while ds is no risk and all reward.
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They think its OP because they dont remember old DS and dribbling. Head On is just a gimmick, but its it's funny. Its a 5 second stun and depending on when and where it actually gets used it can be game changing significantly.
Kinda like watching killers complain about pallets nowadays makes me laugh.
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Mostly because DS can be used anywhere while Head On is restricted to a locker.
For example, I got unhooked near the Exit Gate and ran to the Exit Gate while the killer was patrolling the area. What is the killer going to do about that? Slug me? Alright, I'll just craw out and escape — 60 seconds is more than enough time to do so. You're going to pick me up? Stunned and escaped.
The killer literally can't do anything to me for 60 seconds.
However, I know it sounds like I dislike DS, but I really don't, I actually love DS, it's just annoying when you get hit by it when you don't tunnel or when you're forced to tunnel. 😁🤷♂️
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You are missing something yes, it's WHEN the stun happens that makes all the difference. DS stuns the killer when a survivor is in their grasp, after a chase has ended: nullifying the chase, freeing the survivor, and meaning the killer cannot yet hook after the work he put in for the chase.
Head On almost always hits when the killer is just looking for survivors, or chasing them. The stun is much, much less impactful. Head On is just a 4 second stun whereas DS is actually a lot more.
I don't think either are OP though, for the record.
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Head On is frustrating as there's no real way to counter it, even when you know a survivor has it AND you know they're in a locker.
Importantly though, it means no other exhaustion perk. It's much simpler to tank a stun at the start of a chase than to deal with Balanced Landing, or have Dead Hard add several extra loops to chases.
There's also the times people attempt to use it mid chase which can result in a free grab.
It really just has appropriate downsides for its power.
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You can use other exhaustion perks with Head On. I use Balanced Landing with Head On quite often. Sure you can't use both together, but it circumvents the issues where you can't use one, but can the other.
Except usually in the case of DS, that chase is a 2 second long one in an area with no pallets. I say usually. If you managed to hook someone else and DS is still active, you should have enough pressure that you shouldn't care about 4 extra seconds. DS most of the time will be active in dead zones anyways from my experience, and Head On can do the exact same thing. Especially in the basement. If I know someone caught someone near the basement and I have Head On, I'll rush down to the basement locker in front of the stairs, Head On them, and we both get away. As long as I have time to set up, it works quite well. Also a lot of people complain about DS because it drags the time so much. Doesn't Head On do the same thing? I mean unless you're checking lockers and someone uses it at the beginning of a chase. Most of the time Head On is used to increase wasted time.
Feels to me like people just don't like DS because they don't like being punished for their actions.
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For me the issue with DS lies when every survivor has it. You cannot down a survivor off a hook for a minute, which depending on how fast you down can basically punish you for snowballing too hard. It changes how you play the game entirely and makes endgame unhooks basically free escapes.
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Yes, but when you get DSed, there's also all the usual chase extenders. Head On it's one or the other and the chase is still the regular length.
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Usually when I get DS activated, it's because a killer immediately came to a hook and came for me. I don't get any real chase extenders because I'm usually placed in dead zones. Head On honestly for me feels better because I can delay them by them trying to bait it, if I have inner strength I can get fully healed if they do it long enough, and then I can just leave and try Head On again later.
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Gen repairing = 80sec / DS = 60sec
Sometimes we need to kill the target to reduce speed gen repairing, but you can't.
I wish DS will be change same as Borrowed Time.
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Because DS triggers through normal play while Head On requires deliberate setup.
Also DS is additionally an instant heal with no exhaustion effect AND has a longer stun.
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Because DS can punish a Killer for doing well, Head On is just fun.
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DS is not OP. That's like saying NOED or any other perk is OP. DS is like any other perk, it depends on the gameplay style of both the survivor and killer. No killer should get salty over DS, especially ones that tunnel, and I tend to see that most killers that complain about DS are tunnelers themselves. If a killer thinks DS is OP, then they should think about how survivors feel about NOED. As far as your question goes, killers get salty over DS for the same reason survivors get salty over NOED: They're both good perks that give both sides good advantages.
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If you know they have it you can swing at the locker and hit them as they come out.
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The REAL issue with DS is that it isn't an anti-tunnel perk. It's a "try me, #########" perk that's especially abused by SWF. If you're playing solo and you make it a point to book your ass away from the hook but you get downed and DS the killer, good for you; he deserved that. But the real issue is when people do gens/get unhooks/jump in and out of lockers in your face because they KNOW they're invincible for 60 seconds. That is the problem with DS.
TL;DR: DS is abusable.
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Old DS was OP. New DS is not OP, i think it needs to be slightly changed, so that it lasts until the killer hooks someone else or until like 2 minutes, because one survivor thats immortal until you can find and down the ither guy is unfair, because then it is both a buff and a nerf. Rewards good killers and punishes bad. But honestly, head on is a joke, literally, it's fun, it's funny, but it isn't stong at all. I've gotten tons of free downs from people trying to use it, but if i get there in time, it doesn't activate. Or you can just bait it out. But head on has a difficult requirement to be used well, and even if it is, it's just like a pallet stun, then you have a chase. DS is something that allows a survivor to mock the killer, and say haha, I'm invincible, or something that resets your entire chase. Except the trick is: have a brain. Slug them for a minute, it's essentially the same as a hook, and they can't do anything for that time, and unless they use unbreakable, which some do, someone else has to stop to grab them, and if not, back on the hook they go. If they get in a locker, either leave, or, if you're doing well, just stand there, wait for time up, then kill them for free. Most of the time they will jump out before ds wears off, then you can slug them, you just have to be careful to not grab. Point is, both are counterable, and no perk is OP, some are just stronger than others.
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Decisive strike can be very easily abused even if the killer in question isn't tunneling.
The survivor could use the fact that for a minute essentially safe from being picked up to do a lot of things complete generators, do hex totems or hook saves.
If you've ever played killer I think you've run into a least one instance where a healthy Survivor is working on a close to complete a generator they take a hit when you lunge at them and they go back and tap the generator to complete it.
I know most people will panic upon seeing a generator at 98 and we'll just immediately swing to stop the survivor from working on it hence the tapping.
Some Killers will take the risk to get a little bit closer and grab the survivor however if they survivor had 20 seconds left on decisive strike you can basically eat a steaming load because you're going to get hit with that and they're going to pop the gen. Basically same thing goes with breaking totem
As for hook saves you see someone rushing in for the save you down the saviour either before or after they get the save only to get decisive strike when you literally didn't tunnel the person who just got off the hook.
Compare this to head on due to the perk requiring a locker and a three second activation limit, it is nowhere near as abusable as decisive strike.
You won't usually see a very coordinated effort when it comes to do using the perk unless it's to survive with friends group. (I'm talking about those annoying instances where survivor A will lead you to survivor B's locker so you can get head on stunned and this process will repeat for survivor C and D) very aggravating so it's often something you won't have to worry about.
The perk can be used as a solo survivor but it essentially requires you to have a lot of planning and luck on your side.
Tl;dr you can't abuse head on as reliably as decisive strike
Post edited by Volfawott on1 -
Because killers whine about basically every tool survivors have. Just as survivors whine about alot of tools killers have. Head on just doesn't bother as many of them as ds. Partly because it isn't used as much as Ds. Though I've seen more then a few killers say head on is toxic.
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Well, for starters Head On is easily countered by lunging at the locker and ending it infront of the locker. Most survivor will yeet out and get hurt to stun you
While if you hop in a locker with DS you either sit infront of the locker for atleast a minute waiting for DS to end, or leave the survivor cause you can't do anything about it but eat DS
I am not saying DS is OP, its just stupid how you get it to activate imo
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Don't compare NOED to DS. One is horrible, and the other is the best perk in the entire game besides Adrenaline/exhaust perks.
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People just use their DS to do some annoying stuff. Like if you hooking too fast then they use DS to unhook in front of your face and you cant go for both of them since both has DS :). I dont mind it that much its just annoying. Usually the first guy who utilize his DS like that will have a big target on his back saying "easy for tunnel".
I havent encountered yet survivors who annoy me with Head On. I think 2-3 stuns with it was a maximum i get in one match. Overall the stun duration feels much less crippling than DS stun. I can catch up much faster with head on players. And to make a good use of it they need to setup it meaning what at least 2 players wont be doing gens, ill gladly accept it.
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Making head on play vs good killers is very risky as they know whats going.
When people complain about DS its about the 60 seconds of immunity, not the anti tunnel part.
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Neither is op. I don't know what you're on about.
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I had a really fun time earlier with DS. Whole team had DS and I had Rancor. End of the game, I had one guy on the hook, then my Obsession came and saved them. I downed and Mori'd my Obsession. Then I went to find the remaining two Survivors. I found one, downed and hooked them and went to find the last Survivor. They saved their friend, I found the Rescuer and downed them. The other survivor then decided to try to be ballsy with DS. So I downed them, got DS'd, they unhooked. I then chased, downed, and Mori'd the new Obsession.
My thoughts when it happened "Nice DS ya got there... It would be a shame if I was using Rancor"
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I didn't say either was op. I said I always see threads of people saying ds is.
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Oh. I can't answer your question then.
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Because killer mains want to complain DS out of existence and I don't even use the perk cus I think it's trash. They liked the first nerf for awhile and so their next mission is to complain about it even more to devs.
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Neither is super OP, says this killer main, but if I could hazard a guess: DS can hit an efficient killer who isn't tunneling, and Head On has pretty easy counterplay.
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Sorry if this has been said already, but head on is a 3 second stun and decisive is a 5 second stun. I don't think either is extremely OP, (that's my opinion, I know others think differently.) But the extra stun time definitely makes decisive a little stronger in my eyes.
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Because survivors shouldn't be able to fight back against tunneling, duh.
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I personally just think ds is more annoying than op.
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I am Killer main and I would say neither of them are op lol
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You can fake moving towards the locker and make them jump out then grab/hit them.
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Get good and catch them before that point then.
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Lol I see you dont seem to grasp the point very well
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Why should a killer be rewarded for not tunneling? Huh?
Also for it to be a "free" escape the gate needs to be open, nearby enough and they need to have not used their DS the rest of the game. That's not free.
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Yes, using perks to your advantage is super annoying.
Just down the unhooker and leave him slugged. Now you've a survivor on a hook and on the ground right next to each other. If they get the unhook then slug one and go for the other. Not sure what the problem is.
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Since the decisive strike remade, tunnel killers has become much less, I have clearly noticed this. And this is one of the problems that most of the community complained about very often. Really worth touching this perk?
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On the contrary, it seems the Survivors are the ones who think DS is more powerful than HO.
Because if HO was more powerful, that would be the Perk i see on 3 out of 4 Survivors every trial instead of DS.
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I was just about to link that, it's a great example from someone who understands this game very well.
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Lol as someone who's used it a lot..nothing in this game is more handed to you...I lost all my fear of the killer because they would just open the door and I'd get away with no chance for the killer to beat me..its straight up god mode..as for rewarding killers for not tunneling they should be..because that means they actually played the game properly and without being scummy..so the fact ds says lul sorry but now you cant win at all..is frankly poorly thought out
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God mode. Lol ok.
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Neither of them are OP
However, DS gives you a 60 second invincibility card, either you get slugged or you stab the killer and stun. The killer has to guess if you have it or not, since there is no tell tale sign. Which at this point, the others can come and heal you.
Head On requires some set up, you need to get into a locker and wait a few seconds. Then the killer needs to go around said locker.
Sure combine Head On and DS you can do this double stun. But it's not really effective or helpful unless you get multiple Head On stuns out of it. You won't run into this often. I have never ran into it, only seen it on streams.
Out of the two, DS is stronger, especially now that Enduring does nothing to it for whatever dumb reason they had. Anti-Tunneling it is sure, however most survivors will stay injured or snag a quick heal, then try to get you to chase them. You waste your time on a chase that results in them getting away anyways, which is just like old DS in a nutshell. They are just on a 1 minute timer instead. And now it is stronger cause Enduring does not work.
It's not OP, but to say it isn't one of the stronger perks is incorrect.
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I have an idea to balance DS. Once you use it you are now able to be mori'd.
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If I experience frustration then yes its annoying for me. If it doesnt bother you then good for you I guess. Im not calling for changes and understand what perks were made to give an advantage. Just answering the question in title
There is no problem if i can slug them the problem is when they hop into lockers.
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Best way to describe it
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If you're a biased killer Main, I absolutely agree.
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