Straight up question for the devs. Do you plan to do ANYTHING for killers dealing with SWF?
The coordination survivors have on comms is insane. I'm not expecting a response, to be honest.
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Nope. The devs won't reply but if they did they'd tell you it's fine. Most survivors would also say it's fine. Some killers would say it's fine. The game isn't ever going to be balanced with swf in mind and as a result will never be balanced.
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I play both killer and Survivor and sure it's annoying having to go against a 4 stack but I actually rather enjoy it because if I can 4k them I feel good that I was able to outsmart then because they even had communication. And if I get 0-1 kills then hey they had a slight advantage no big deal if they need the advantage so be it, on to the next round.
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They want to buff solos first to the standard of swf. Then they can make killers stronger against swf. If they were to buff killers to be better against swf, solos would be left behind. With the new Kindred buff, it's a step in the right direction.
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It is so annoying but what they can possibly do?
It's wrong to stop people from playing with their friends, most of the Survivor mains only play with their friends so if they get rid of it then the game dies because no one but me and some other people enjoy/prefer to play solo; guess no one enjoys being scared in a horror game.
They can't get rid of comms, they literally can't do anything since it's a 3rd party thing.
They can't implement anything that punishes SWF making it harder to play the game just because they are playing with someone, that's not fair and wrong.
What they COULD do is let us know who is SWF, if we know if they are on comms we can prepare ourselves for it. But the problem with that is that some Killers might dodge the lobby, especially if those ######### all have toolboxes; any 4 man SWF team with all toolboxes is trash.
So, what can they possibly do to make it more fair in this 4v1 situation? Maybe they can make Killers who can actually combat these teams but we saw the Legion changes and it's been 3 years so we all know that they're too afraid to make strong Killers. Mcote said Demogorgon was ''damn strong'' and yeah I guess Demo is strong in a sense but all 3 of his perks were purposefully made to be crap and nerfed from the PTB so maybe he used to be strong.
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Just tunnel the weakest link. Focus them down one by one. If one tries to tempt you to follow them (by flashlight clicking or tbagging) target someone else.
The less people they have on the team the harder it would be for them to complete objectives. Hoard all the Moris you can and use them when you think it’s a swf group.
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SWF doesn't do anything besides letting people enjoy games with their friends. Instead of asking the devs to do something, just outsmart an SWF. If you know how to end loops and apply pressure to gens, then SWF groups shouldn't be able to change the game that much. I took out a 4 man SWF as Myers with scratched mirror. Not a single gen was done that match, and I didn't tunnel or camp.
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I have over 2.5k hours in the game playing both killer and survivor, and honestly i don't see swfs as a big deal.
Reason being is that there are plenty of experienced solo survivors, that i find are just as coordinated as swfs.
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Information SWF has access to that solo survivors do not
- Location of the killer (especially if there is a OoO) and what they are doing
- Which a survivor is being chased
- When it is safe to work on gens
- Where the killer is headed after a survivor is hooked, you can also see if they have things like BBQ (pretty obvious if the killer rotates around after a hook)
- Who is going for the save, who can work on gens
This is just off the top of my head.
If your Myers game was not on one of the indoor maps, you went against some pretty poor survivors.
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They said escapes in a 4man equate to 7% in the killer statics forum so according to them its not a problem.
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They have confirmed that they do have a plan. They can't police comms, and in the past they have expressed an aversion to adding voicechat to the game itself, but what they can do (and are planning to, apparently) is to gradually bring solo survivors up to the same level of game awareness as SWF are afforded through comms, and then balance killers around that.
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That doesn't really answer the question. I know you're trying to imply that they aren't taking the problem seriously, but just because SWF is not as huge an issue as many people think it is, doesn't mean it's not an issue at all or that the devs aren't planning to do anything about it.
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If Kindred's rework is an example of how they're going to buff solos, I'm pretty disappointed.
Sacrificing a perk slot for access to SOME of the information that being on comms provides all the while being restricted to when you're seeing this information is a bad-aid fix, at best. It also limits build diversity.
I honestly doubt that this "buff solo -> buff killer" plan will ever see completion, as there's no way to reasonably buff killers to match the unlimited information flow of SWF.
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I mean when they say "swf isnt as op as people think it is" it sounds like they dont think of it as a problem
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One could infer that, yes, but I don't think that's actually the case, since they've confirmed that they are actually planning to do something about it. I'm pretty sure all that's being said there is exactly what Almo wrote - that SWF isn't as much of a problem as people tend to think, not that it isn't a problem at all.
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I'm just going to say learn to camp. It works wonders on SWF, because someone will always save, even if you're there. Just saying.
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+1 if there that much of a jerk and they just dominated me im guaranteeing that one kill the only time i accept camping.
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probably never gonna happen, if you punish people because they’re playing with their friends then the game will most likely die.
btw, how do you even know youre going up against swf? They could just be a very good solo group.
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They said theyre trying to buff normal survivors up to swf. As in give normal survivors the same kind of info that a swf team would have.
After this they would balance the game for killer which is smart because then everyone would be at a relatively similar amount of time efficiency for survivors therefore gen speeds and everything else could be taken care of as there would be no advantage for playing swf vs not. Killer would be at a disadvantage for a few til they balance it BUT!
The problem is: They havent done ######### anything about that and Ive been hearing about this "we're buffing solo survivors" bs for ages AND NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.
Not only is it painful as survivor having bad teammates who don't realize the killer is on someone else, yes even at rank 1 idk how. BUT AS KILLER TOO bc swf is DISGUSTINGLY STRONG like sorry I thought I was playing the power role. So if they buff solo, they could see the problems better and fix them, but it seems like they arent doing that and instead adding perks expecting it to fix the game
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SWF I have a nice time, and feel like I have a Chance at escaping.
I know the other players are good, and they have game sense.
When I play solo, I feel hopeless most games. And a large percentage of my games end up in 4K’s, which shouldn’t be happening to begin with. This is just like 4 man escapes, they shouldn’t be a high percentage either.
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The amount of times I 4k'd a SWF squad because they absolutely refused to let one of their buddies die is ridiculous lol. Just get out of there!
Very rarely will they actually succeed and all escape after like a dozen hookswaps and I'll admit that can be embarrassing and frustrating, but you can't dwell on it.
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They really do expect perks to just fix the game. They keep adding these gen perks too. Killers keep saying gen speeds are a problem. They need to just REWORK THEM.
THEY ARE BORING
THEY ARE TOO SHORT
IT IS LITERALLY JUST PRESSING A BUTTON FOR 80 SECONDS.
Wasting perk slots in an attempt to save myself from an unbalanced game is bs
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What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
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Changing a perk doesnt add anything to the game. How often do u see kindred?
Survivors each need a small diamond at the the top right of their survivor icons in the bottom left of screen. When in a chase, it would light up for that specific survivor. That would be a step in the right direction. Telling the survivors who is being chased but with no auras. Thats swf but solo basically. But perks fix the game right? Perks like ruin fix the game. Because killers are obligated to use a perk that could maybe possibly distupt the quick gen speeds.
No hate towards you its just... Perks are definitely not the right way to go to fix imbalances
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This is the main problem though, red rank SWF groups are literally almost impossible to win against as killer. Brown - Purple aren't the issue.
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Now you are making sense to me; none of this "well they are escaping not much more so it's not that bad" it's not fun for killers really who only get luck kills at the end because they are being altruistic- but just get curb stomped the rest of the match...it's like why play 90% of the game? Why be unable to do anything until they start doing that; and
Then you got the teabagging and insults in the post game but you can at least ignore most of that; but just the game's atmosphere and behavior is so different and unpleasant; that SWF is so unfun it was what made me quit playing for over a year the first time. Now playing AS SWF is fun of course, I love it and don't want it to go away anytime soon it's what made me start playing survivor at all.
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When you say solo exprience you claim the solo survivors? Or are you counting solo survivors and killers
Because I can't remember anything done towards killers to improve their exprience with swfs
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exactly.
You probably should somehow rethink your metric "balance the game for 2 kills", and I'm not talking about increasing/decreasing the kill count.
I don't know what would be the right way to approach the subject of balance, but in my opinion the two most important metrics are time to complete 4 generators (not 5, since when just one is left a lot of swf start to mess around to proc adrenaline only when everyone is injured), total amount of hooks and 2 kills.
This would mean that a killer that is consistently able to get 2 kills, but has very quick games (...or, to be more precise, very quick 4 gens done) and very few hooks, is still somehow underwhelming - on the contrary a killer with very slow games could still be in some way overwhelming even if he barely reaches the 2 kills per game (Doctor, anyone?).
To be honest though I don't think that changing a killer alone could influence that much the two new parameters - they are most a consequence of map pressure, meaning both killer mobility and map conformation, coupled of course with raw gen speed (which I assume you don't want to touch, so there's that).
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They're referring to solo survivors, I believe. The plan is to improve the solo survivor experience to be on an informational level with SWF, and then buff killers accordingly.
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Nicely said Almo, the issue is less the escape rate is more the experience during the trial.
As solo survivor as well as killer playing with/against SWF feels alienating and to some a degree annihilating. I don't think the issue lies with the SWF themselves or that they are coordinating over voice. My observation showed me, that if I am with or against SWF they tend to act and react differently then the usual game of DBD. This difference makes it really hard to play into accordingly.
If we are talking about real red rank SWF that playing to win, they are nails! It's amazing to watch them or be part of such a unit, but a hell to face them.
Buff solos and adjust the killers, there is not much else we could do.
Keep up the good work.
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Ok but do you have any plans to change Survivor basekit with this sort of thing in mind?
Things like Dull totem cleanse notifications, action indicators, chase indicators on non-obsessions ect ect ect.
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Ok if they remove SWF will killer mains finally be happy? No because if a survivor is smart they will just invite whoever joins the lobby to a party chat. Communication is still there, but playing with friends isn't. All to satisfy killers. I don't get why any side complains about the game. If you don't like it then just don't play easy as that. Move on and stop crying.
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Nah
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If they mess around and do stupid stuff, sure 4k incoming, but when they play optimally you can't do #########. That's the main issue. It's no slight advantage, it's basically all aura reading perks at once.
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Most important question?
Is swf good? -Yes. Coop is the funniest thing.
Comms: When you're a killer, you are 100% synchronized with yourself at list a hope lol. It doesn't MATTER how good their comms are, your own comm is better since you are BY yourself. Obviously it's alot easier vs solos cauz unlike you they can't rely on others as much as you can on yourself. When a survivor is hooked he HAS to count on others most of the time. They can't do a good chase then get hooked then keep going by themselves. The killer can chase, then gen pressure, then hook... All that with perfect sync speed depends on his skills. If there's a problem it's right there, the killer power or the player s skill. You want something fair? A mode where there is 2 killers and maybe 10 survs. But as it is right now there is nothing wrong with the swf. That doesn't make sense that's not where the solution is at all
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They didn't outright say Kindred was a small solution to being on par with SWF. Unless they did at some point. In my opinion, it does help a bit because i don't have to be the one on the hook to get usage out of it. I think that the icons on the bottom left that show status of survivors can be updated, to show who's being chased and who's ready to be picked up from dying state. I just personally think that Kindred will be helpful, even though it waste a perk spot. It's not an amazing change but it is something.
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What's the point of tunneling the weakest if they're just gonna try to take you off of them.
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Two days ago I played a game on pig, that I did get 1k, agaisn't a streamer with his friends on comm.
I don't really think I am a bad pig player, and I like being challenged agaisn't SWFs, but when I saw it was a streamer, I went to his channel to check how many he were playing with, they were a team of 3.
I still wasn't scared enough to try my best, but these three played OPTIMALLY.
They were revealing my position and EVERYTHING I did, the WHOLE time, I felt REALLY underpowered, they were good sports, they didn't bother teabagging or anything toxic, they were serious tryhards, they only words were "She is doing this, she is here, chasing that, kicking gen, she has "x, x, x and maybe x" perk, HOW is that even supposed to be fair.
I honestly don't know how to fix that either, so I have nothing to say, but that particular experience agaisn't that streamer SWF, make me feel REALLY underwhelmed, and I knew that if I started playing dirty, as camping, tunneling, etc, it'd make me look bad in front of hundreds of peoples, regardless the fact that the SWF had a 100% revealing aura passive basically, on me.
How to fix it? I don't know, put a 3% slow on all swf members actions? increase gen timers? Idk, but even though it wasn't a fast match, and the only person I managed to kill was the "random", it wasn't MUCH fun, it was very pressuring.
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As a Wraith, with addons, it’s not hard to tunnel an injured player. As long as you have 3 or more gens, it’s doable. I do wish Wraith could use a trap or two to make body blockers suffer.
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Tbh all i want is an icon that notifies a killer which in lobbies are swf, that way killers can mentally prepare themselves for what they needed to look out for in the game for example when certain players are being toxic for a reason/trying to get a killers attention etc, i for one had a game where swf were being toxic and i got camped hard assuming i was with them, i don't blame the killers tho but with info this can be avoided
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Nope
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I've heard a mention of a Kindred buff a few times in this thread, but when I went to check out the patch notes, it seems to imply that they're switching from all off the hook survivors being able to see auras when the Kindred survivor is hooked into only the Kindred survivor being able to see auras when somebody else is hooked. Is that the case? Or is the description misleading? Cause to be perfectly honest, that seems more like a nerf than a buff to me.
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They would never touch SWF -- it would hurt their bottom line.
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I don't understand why so many killers are afraid of SWF. You all act like the second you get a 4 man SWF, which may I made is really rare, you automatically lose the game.
Learn to play better, learn to adapt. Sure SWF does have an advantage to solo survivors I'm not going to deny that, but it doesn't mean they're not possible to kill. If anything SWF is a lot easier to snowball in my experience as they're usually way too altruistic.
One thing that I always remind people of is their good experiences. How many SWF have you really had a super bad time with? Maybe a couple? How many good games have you had? Dozens if not hundreds? Remember the good games, not the bad ones. Learn from the bad ones instead of dwelling and yelling for changes.
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What problem? Enjoying an assymetrycal multiplayer horror survival game with friends? Right... Didn't all the teens in horror movies have some kind of acquaintance?
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Wanting SWF nerfed or just tweaked isn't about being against survivors playing with friends or them having fun, it's about improving the killer experience. I'm not saying I deserve to win every single match I'm in but I've paid money for this just like the survivors did. Aren't I just as entitled to a fair and fun experience as they are? Going against a group of good survivors is a welcomed challenge but going against an optimal SWF is just overwhelming.
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I was told everyone gets to see, unless what my friend told me was wrong.
Edit: It does both. Haha. If you on hook, everyone sees eachother. If someone else is on hook, only you can see everyone.
Post edited by Elk on0 -
I wouldn't say "afraid." But if you do not understand why it can be a miserable experience, you probably haven't played killer much. "Learn to play better" is far from helpful.
It happens more than enough to be an issue. Not to mention games against toxic SWF can REALLY stick with you.
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I play killer way more than I play survivor. Learn to play better isn't helpful sure, but it is the truth. A good killer will still dominate a SWF 90% of the time.
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don't forget the SWF that is playing jokes and such or not super sweaty, just look at the "sand bag with friends" that otz did with 3 others
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