Don't direct your grievances with perks onto players no matter what the situation is.

By all means have a discussion about perks you have an issue with, but don't blame players for using something that's in the game and isn't bugged or otherwise not working as intended. Both you and the Wraith player were in the wrong in your example, even though they were admittingly worse since they couldn't keep their pointless scrubby crying out of endgame chat.

NOED is nowhere near the powerlevel of DS/BT comboz... noed stops working at like rank 10.

NOED is used by lesser skilled/less viable killers or at lower ranks, if you are confident that you can stop 5 gens being done, theres no reason to run noed. It's a problem at lower ranks but you see it less the higher you go.

Also, do bones.

The only counter DS has is "just leave them alone for 60 seconds after every unhook lol"

There is 0 reason not to run DS at any rank, its objectivley one of if not the strongest survivor perk in the game. It's insurance against being tunneled, but if you get a decent killer that avoids tunneling, then even better! you now have a 60 second invincibility twice in the match, and if you get hooked after the gates are open, a free escape.

Agreed, I see so many ######### killers chase one survivor for ages and when all the gens are done, said survivor gets punished by NOED for nothing. DS does last too long though. Myself and many other good killer players get hit by it even when we chased and hooked another survivor. All the crutches (on both sides) need to be gone for the health of the game.

I honestly hate NOED and would love to see it removed, but comparing NOED with DS simply doesn't make sense.

They are not even remotely similar.

One has very easy counters and one doesn't.

Also, "just don't go after anyone for 60 seconds after every single unhook for the entire game" is not a counter. That is how you lose the game. A 60 second immunity after each survivors unhook is insane hence why it is the best survivor perk in the game. 60 seconds is so long that you will end up eating it at some point whether you are tunneling or not.

NOED shouldn't exist, just like DS in its current state shouldn't.

Going with this, survivors should actually have to WORK to activate DS. It is a 60 second invulnerability timer after being unhooked with no downsides.

It's completely fair, just because something means you can't escape every game doesn't mean you have to be against it.

Period.

Typical Laurie

This is the big thing with DS. Even if you go after the unhooker, the timer is so long that there is still a big chance you'll get hit with it anyway, even though you didn't tunnel. I think the perfect change would be

• When another survivor is hooked while DS is active, the perk deactivates. Gain a 10% speed boost to unhooking actions.

The only thing keeping this true is the thought pattern that its true. People assume there is no point in THEM cleansing the bones they see because their teammates wont do the same, while said teammates are thinking that very thing of them. Point being... if everyone just cleansed the bones they ran past thats often times 3 ft from the gen theyre working on, its not even a solo vs swf thing. The only thing SWF really has at that point is confirmation that someone else is indeed doing bones...

You could very easily wipe out NOED at the very beginning of the game while the killer is going from gen to gen, listening for the sounds of a gen being worked on.

Sounds to me like you got triggered by a wraith with questionable mindset. If you get verbally abused, thats not Ok regardless the cricumstances.

"you can’t be for one thing and against another" - well I think you can.

I think its not a great idea to compare killer perks to survivor perks. You should look at them seperately.

Noed's counter is cleansing totems or find the enlighted one. And most of the totem spots are really not that great. Sometimes funny how 4 players cant cleanse 5 totems or remember their spots. Even if noed procs its not like you just fall to the ground and lost a game. btw you get points for cleansing and yes you wont be able to sit on a gen for 14 seconds. fbm

DS is great vs tunnelers. You can just slug them for 60 seconds but thats half a gen. So you have to play really strategic to counter that. I see the problem with DS that there are player who abuse it in a way its not intented. Cant count the times I got DS'ed for not tunneling.

In terms of annoying I agree. they both are.

Theyre compatible in that they activate at the same time, and the "failure-success" thing is easily flipable. You can get adrenaline with 5 gens to go, 3 teammates dead and the hatch closing. I suppose you COULD call that a success that you outlived your teammates, but the killer definitely didn't fail to get the NOED that activates during that scenario.

@LordGlint That video isn't really showing how DS gets abused. Instead of grabbing you could also hit the survivor twice, that was a simple hook exchange offer. Grabbing was even better as it wastes the DS. Slicing into the air after the unhook was simply clumsy, that Steve should go down easily. You don't need DS for that, everyone (sorry, many people) running BT behave like that. Take the free hook, I love when this happens.

All I dislike in that case is the locker "juke". But I also like in these cases, when they refuse to run and just want their DS triggered, when they jump in and out to trigger the grab. Then just don't grab, keep distance to be able to swing or look away, lunge, turn back and hit. The locker animation is long enough. And then leave them. They could have run to do something useful, now they crawl around. Fine for me.

Still agree on disabling the countdown when someone is hooked. Everything else suggested all over the forum, like disable on hits, on entering lockers, on touching gens etc is not necessary.

If both NOED and DS were removed tomorrow, who would be more upset?

I don't think anyone would be upset. Everyone will rejoice.