Survivor Perks list : Buff / balanced / nerf

@DocOctober said:
Please get your facts straight before you engage in balance conversations.

It's a forum, everybody can bring their opinions. That was my perception & I don't want they nerf self-care. I'm a player just like all of you & I have the same rights like everybody to speak up my mind. Sorry that I was wrong but your words are so rude.

@onark said:

@DocOctober said:
Please get your facts straight before you engage in balance conversations.

It's a forum, everybody can bring their opinions. That was my perception & I don't want they nerf self-care. I'm a player just like all of you & I have the same rights like everybody to speak up my mind. Sorry that I was wrong but your words are so rude.

Maybe our opinions differ, but I do think that bringing wrong facts to a forum dedicated to balance is rude and not telling someone that he should check his facts before he says something (isn't this common sense?)

@Dragonredking said:

@onark said:
Self-care is pretty slow at level 1 and if you add to that the killer perk of slowing that even more, it's horrible.

This is desinformation, since patch 1.7.0 selfcare heal at the same speed across all level, the only change to its speed is if you use a medkit.

@Feyard said:

Maybe our opinions differ, but I do think that bringing wrong facts to a forum dedicated to balance is rude and not telling someone that he should check his facts before he says something (isn't this common sense?)

Come on I already said that I was wrong with that, I even say I'm sorry. You all want to crucify me for an error? do you want to ban me or send me to jail? OMG. The point of this thread is the balance of perks, not my mistake. My point was that there is a killer skill that decrease the speed of self-care and I don't like that they nerf it. Stop it, please.

@Feyard

Is not necessary to repeat over & over again the same thing 3 different people against 1

@OxyReap said:
Hello ppl. We made a list as three of perks who need to be buffed, nerfed, or good.
This is our opinion build in 2 hours and half of speak. This is not a tiers list. You can give your opinion and upvote or downvote for comment you like, and i will edit the list. If you want to debate how you want to rework, go here : http://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/268/perk-buff-nerf-list#latest

This list is not an order to the devs, but for give them a idea of what we all think. They still have right to do whatever they want of their game.

Enough speaking, there is the list :

Buff needed :
Ace in the hole
Alert
Calm Spirit
Dark Sense
Déjà Vu
Detective's Hunch
Left Behind
Lightweight
No Mither
No One Left Behind
Open Handed
Prove Thyself
Saboteur
Slippery Meat
Sole Survivor
Streetwise
This Is Not Happening
Technician
Tenacity
We're Gonna Live Forever
Botany Knowledge

Nerf needed :
Decisive Strike (Need a rework)
Self-Care (Maybe put a slow scaling more it is used)
Sprint Burst (More change than nerf, acceleration can be good)

Balanced :
Adrenaline (Just remove the insta heal after unhook ?)
Balanced landing
Bond
Borrowed Time (Maybe put a limit)
Dead Hard
Empathy (Improve early tiers)
Hope
Iron Will (Improve early tiers)
Kindred (Little buff)
Leader
Lithe
Object of Obsession
Pharmacy
Plunderer's Instinct
Premonition
Quick & Quiet
Resilience
Small Game (little buff)
Spine Chill
Stake Out
Up The Ante
Unbreakable
Urban Evasion
Vigil
Wake Up!
We'll Make It

Thank's to Soulkey and Vayne Hellslinger for their help.

W'll do killers perks later.

I would personally put self care in the balanced tier. While the perk is insanely strong, it is counterable.

SC is a really strange case. Some argue its totally OP. But as you say, it is counterable. Early game its neglibibly better than nothing. But late game its a life saver. The problem comes from the fact that its a very selfish perk. Because it doesnt really benefit the team very much at all, but benefits the individual a lot. Especially late game.

Its hard to know what to do with it. I would either make a very slow heal possible without any perks. Thus it would be a small upgrade rather than a game changer.

Or i would just nerf SC to 30% and ensure med kits were plentiful in the chests on every map. Not sure how many chests there are usually, but i'd make it so that if there were 5 chests on a typical map - 1 would have a key, 1 would have a flashlight, 1 would have a toolbox, 1 a map and any additional chests would have med kits.

Or i'd make a game changing alteration and put a place on the map that survivors can go to heal. A slow heal, but a heal none the less. If the killer knows where it is, that they can use it to find survivors. Perhaps it could even be in the basement, or the shack.

The people have spoken loud and clear. They want to be able to self heal!

@Visionmaker said:

@OxyReap said:
@Visionmaker Wake ups is not only about opening doors.
Botanic knowledge is not that bad when you put another perk with it. I'll let you think wich one.
Lithe need to be fixed then, but no up.
Agree with two lasts. I wasn't in the same opinion of my two mates, but they have more experience than me.

Uh.. I guess the aura from Wake Up is ... niche? Still don't think it justifies a perk slot at all. It is bad.

It is not necessary. It is a waste of a perk slot, and should only be used if you want to look cute. 20% longer med packs can be replaced with Pharmacy or decent add ons, and 20% extra speed is trash in comparison to other perks... I'll let you think which one. It is trash, even as a supplementary perk.

Isn't it the point then that it does both (giving you a weaker Pharmacy and a weaker whatever perk)? Though I do not know if it is worth it just for that (probably not). I have no ideas about the numbers, but 20% does indeed sound underwhelming especially compared to We'll make it.

The fact that it is "not that bad when you put another perk with it" proves that it does indeed need a buff, since there are many perks functioning without the addition of other perks, so if Botany Knowledge indeed only works in synergy with other things and even then it is just mediocore, then it needs a buff.

I hope they don't slow Self-care. With "Nurse's calling" perk, killers would have an even more huge advantage.

@Kiores Hello I'm one of the co-writers of the list. When we first started writing our list we came to an early consensus that every perk should have some form of viability to it, enough that it justified using a perk slot. As such most perks that we agreed needed to be buffed had to done so utility wise. Just a quick rundown for our thought process for the first couple perks you mentioned.

Detective's hunch: We really liked the idea behind it but disliked how a map was required for full utilisation. Agreed upon idea that some objects, we thought totems, within the radius should remain permanently marked, even after the normal perk duration was over.

Streetwise: Another really well balanced perk. We just wanted a slight range increase from 8 to something along the lines of 12-15m.

Calm Spirit: We had a lot of fun with this one. We had a bunch of ideas to make using it feel more rewarding. Eventually we settled on any crows the killer scared off were notified to you via visual cue after which the ability would go on CD).

Left Behind: Due to the random nature of whether or not you ended up as the last survivor, we wanted a bigger reward for it. If you wished to fight as the last man standing, we really wanted to make the killer go into a frenzy when you had this perk, so we thought to make the increased repair speed % a ludicrous amount.

I could go on explaining our thought process, and if there is any specific perk where you would like to see how we examined, I would be happy to elaborate, but for now I think this is enough.

Killers have no advantage tbh but I do agree that it shouldn't be slower. Instead it should just have a set number of heals instead. At tier 3, you should have 3 heals.

Speaking of Tenacity, something i wish the devs would do to balance SWF with solo queue is to reveal which perks everyone is using. Tenacity and Unbreakable would be much more useful if each of us knew who has those and could distract the killer to enable it to work.

@VayneHellslinger said:
@Kiores
Detective's hunch: We really liked the idea behind it but disliked how a map was required for full utilisation. Agreed upon idea that some objects, we thought totems, within the radius should remain permanently marked, even after the normal perk duration was over.

Calm Spirit: We had a lot of fun with this one. We had a bunch of ideas to make using it feel more rewarding. Eventually we settled on any crows the killer scared off were notified to you via visual cue after which the ability would go on CD).

Left Behind: Due to the random nature of whether or not you ended up as the last survivor, we wanted a bigger reward for it. If you wished to fight as the last man standing, we really wanted to make the killer go into a frenzy when you had this perk, so we thought to make the increased repair speed % a ludicrous amount.

I can understand the reasoning behind left behind, as I've tried 1v1 in KYF using Left behind, and it's not often you can even get away from the killer, let alone hide enough time for killer to walk away, and then you don't have enough time to fix a generator before their patrol has gone a lap, sure, it's less gens and less time per lap when you're alone, but I think I usually have time to fix a third of a gen, maybe half by the time they walk around all the other generators, aka, they do still walk a lap around the map, which means it's not fast enough to be viable

Calm spirit is a good perk for a sneaking build, if it only did what it was intended to do, it doesn't actually do what it's made to do, as most crows can still be alerted by your presence, and the ironic part is that the perk was made to accompany the pale rose map variant of swamp, to hide the fact that you stepped near/onto the large boat, which it doesn't even do...

Detective's hunch is Extremely powerful, as I stated in earlier message, my reasoning is that I have mained it since pig came out, and it's an easy replacement of a few perks, "Small game", "Deja Vu", "Plunderer's instinct" and the map item entirely
as the perk reveals your next targets every time you pop a generator, it has a ludicrous range of 64 meters, revealing like 60-70% of all the items except hooks a maximum of 5 times per game, if you do gens
of course, the perk isn't useful at all the games where you're chased until all the generators are done, but with the help of detective's hunch, I've defused many NOED killers well before gates are powered, and opened many chests that have been revealed by the perk.

with this said, if you had a ranking of perks that needs to be fixed, you should consider exactly why each and every perk need a rework, and then list them accordingly, the more/heavier reason at the top and less important at the bottom, I could help to rank them a little, but it's not like you can number them up, just more or less put them into categories of "important", "less important", "Quality of life" etc

@OxyReap said:
@kiores you have very interesting point of view. Let's do that again together with my mates when I'm back home. Are you up too? 

Sure, dm me details if possible

@Nickenzie Here is some Math that the potential change will theoratically make. Lets take a scenario where all 4 survivors run this perk. When one dies the other three get a boost in repair equating to a total of 30% repair speed. We can be generous and assume at a given time, 2 survivors are working on a generator, so 20% on average is saved on gen time. Gens take 80 seconds to complete as a base, great skillchecks non-withstanding. Assuming a survivor is likely to hit a great skillcheck on average 3-4 times while fully repairing a gen, each one adding 1.6 seconds per survivor, so between both survivors a total saved time of 9.6 second there. Chases will take average 30-40 seconds to reach completion, regardless of the end result. That nets a total survivor advantage under these conditions of 36% for two gens while under the effects of the perk. This, of course, ignores the notion that both survivors aren't working on the same gen.

Math Non-withstanding, the core of the perk becomes lost. The idea that you are the last survivor is the high risk, and a proportional high reward should accompany it. Getting to this point should give you a crazy advantage, like 250% gen repair speed, or something to that effect.