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Why the DC penalty should not be implemented
One player has absolute control over the match. The killer. They DC, the game is over for everyone. They decide to farm, then that is the match you are in. If they want to facecamp a single survivor, they will likely be able to. If they wanna go afk staring at a wall - that's that. 4 other players experience, dictacted by one. You have to fall back on the old saying, and stop trying to please all, all the time. Not Possible so why try to force it on people who are paying you for entertainment.
So many people experience bugs each and every day. Look at the tech support / bug reporting / youtube videos that pop up daily. I don't know how you guys keep track of active issues, but there seems to be a disconnect in the company between the person that decided the game needed a DC penalty, and the person actually keeping track of the bugs/current state of the game. I'd recommend these 2 sit down for a meeting asap and Mr. DC Penalty be brought up to snuff. These are bugs present with every change. You fix 1, next release there is another. It's ALWAYS been like this. Always. From Day 1. You've jumped ahead 3 lines in your Project and forgot about step 1! Basic functionality and stability.
You've yet to every fully and long term address matchmaking and ranking. After 4 years, you guys basically have no idea how to accurately measure someone's ability in this game. Because of this, matches occur that can really rip the fun right out of the game on both sides.
You're taking resources away that could be used to help work on the issues above, so that you can focus on punishing people, for the issues above. That's insane.
Comments
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Yeah!
They shouldn't discourage to disconnect but encourage to stay in the game.
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Lol I'm sorry but calling breaking tos a tool is not ok
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did you reply to the wrong thread?if not then sorry, no idea what you're talking about.
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I get matches can be frustrating but acting like dcing is ok is a joke..and frankly survivor players get away with too much on this front..some killers do it too but its predominantly an issues caused by survivors
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I disagree with the premise. The game is over for everyone if a survivor DCs too. Killers do not get emblems, so they will likely black pip at higher ranks, if that. They lose out on a lot of BP, and their add ons can't be carried to a new game. And they can't even choose to just go get a better game. The survivors are now stuck in what is likely a losing game, because an early DC is going to be a death sentence against a decent killer. They will likely depip or black pip, and lose their items, and get very few points. And they can't even choose to just go get a better game without depipping twice and losing all their points.
Without the penalty, the only one who gets to go enjoy a new game is the one who threw a tantrum. The ones they screwed over are stuck in a game that has had its value removed. If anything, it should be more severe, except dedicated servers do kick people randomly. I have seen both sides suddenly walking into walls.
Additionally, as someone who plays survivor and killer, survivors can do all the stuff you said killers do. Stand and face the wall? That is called make yourself die on first hook. Try to farm? You can try to farm as both sides, and if the other side disagrees, you just don't get to farm. Survivors can deny killers farm, killers can deny survivors farm. Face camp a single survivor? Hook rush, or gen rush.
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This is not a discussion on when / IF DC is ok. It's irrelavent for this topic.
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I see no point in arguing which is worse, 1 survivor DC'n or a killer. While a huge portion of the game is taken away, chases can still occur, points can be had, the basic game functionality is still there. You sound like you have an issue with the ranks and how DC'd are handled which can be addressed by BHVR so they don't affect killers / survivors as much. It's just not debatable that a killer has the final say on a match.
Again, I think you're missing the point. The game is not in a state that is anywhere close to being able to ONLY punish people who rage DC. It's never been in that state.
But let's cast aside my first point on the killer. The last 2 points are facts and more than enough on their own merit, to prove the game is not anywhere near being ready to punish DC's.
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That is Begging the Question. You are assuming that the bugs and the lack of solid matchmaking are a strong enough evidence. I completely agree with both premises. I do not believe the lack of solid matchmaking is in any logical way related to DCs (Though, the DCs are causing it, as described below). And if you are experiencing bugs so frequently that you crash every game, don't play and screw over your team. I can't count how many times I have seen Exhaustion come up for Dead Hard, but then I still get hit and spasm on the ground like I am having a seizure. I didn't DC because the servers screwed me, I stopped running Dead Hard. I have a bug folder for this game more than 20 individual events long, and yet I never ragequit over them.
The disconnecting issue, however, is costing them player base fast. Games are taking minutes to get into at all ranks, and matchmaking is putting us against people from a random mix of ranks, just because there aren't enough players anymore, and people getting tired of the ragequitting is a huge reason why. Watch streamers, play killer. It is rarely someone who was just standing there, walking into a wall, or not moving. It is usually the person you beat fair and square disconnecting as you put them on your shoulder or get to a hook.
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"That is Begging the Question. You are assuming that the bugs and the lack of solid matchmaking are a strong enough evidence."
I didnt read past that. There are 0 assumptions here. Matchmaking, and a long list of bugs are indisputable. Furthermore my own experience in seeing other players and infinite loading screens, extensive waits during matchmaking only to be against rank 20's as a rank 1, is incontrovertible proof.
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nice job debunking his argument by reading the first sentence numbnuts
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"One player has absolute control over the match. The killer. They DC, the game is over for everyone. They decide to farm, then that is the match you are in. If they want to facecamp a single survivor, they will likely be able to. If they wanna go afk staring at a wall - that's that. 4 other players experience, dictacted by one. You have to fall back on the old saying, and stop trying to please all, all the time. Not Possible so why try to force it on people who are paying you for entertainment."
I dont agree with this at all.
They DC the game is over, yes because one the 2 sides completely dropped, what else would happen. (The DC penalty also goes for them btw, so equal punishment.)
They decide to farm? ermm you dont have to join into that at all, to gens and leave. They want to facecamp a survivor, they will likely be able to...yes and get no points whatsoever and everyone does gens and leaves, how does that mean they have control?
If they wanna go afk stare at a .... ok lets reverse this:
If the survivors want to farm but the killer just kills them, fine, die on hook, moving on to the next game sooo survivors controlled that in the same way the killer controlls it in your scenario.
If the survivors choose not to run away and just die right away on the hook, well there ya go, guess they control the match now?
If the survivors choose to stare at the wall well there ya go, guess they controlled the match again...
DC penalty is a good thing, the only thing we do need is give the survivors some way to bleed out faster without it being unfair so as to not be stuck with a slugging killer just waiting for everyone to bleed out
Claiming it should not be done because of bugs is just skewed beyond believe, nobody is going to make videos saying "yep, everything is working fine...soo really nothing to report here....dont really know what I mad this vid/post". How often do you actually crash in this game that you think a time restriction is going to make it so much harder for you, if you crash all the time you have bigger issues anyway and should solve that rather then ruining matches you are DCing from intentionally or not.
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"One player has absolute control over the match. The killer." : wrong , the time management is in survivor side not in killer side. The killer can just influence it at some point but it didn't have the control.
"They DC, the game is over for everyone." : and with the dc punnishment he will be punnish as you will get your reward : the bp you earn, the item you get and keep your pip in the worst case.
"They decide to farm, then that is the match you are in." : this sentence didn't make sense.
"they want to facecamp a single survivor, they will likely be able to." : small correction, facecamp didn't exist, we talk about camp. A killer can camp but there is perks to counter it and the gamecore to punnish him.
"If they wanna go afk staring at a wall - that's that." : so ? Were is the problem ? What is the link with dc ? I mean if he is afk , get your point and leave. You didn't even need to give him point.
"4 other players experience, dictacted by one." : no that is wrong for two reasons :
=> the experience you get , you acquired it through playtime. You can't erase who you are because of someone else.
=> It is YOU who choose how you want to play. The only thing that will change is how the game will run and how you will be able to adapt. You are not to do so ? Well bad for you, you didn't respect the basis of survival.
"Not Possible so why try to force it on people who are paying you for entertainment." : you paid to play a game with rules. By paid it and accept the contract with behavior, you engage yourself to respect them. If you can't , maybe you should change game.... For a solo player game for exemple ....
"So many people experience bugs each and every day." : bug ... Only part where i can say YES. Yes there is bug but if you manage to get bug nearly each game and so not be able to play at all ... Ask yourself some question .... I mean imagine play another ranked game and make the same thing (exemple : cs go) ....
"I don't know how you guys keep track of active issues, but there seems to be a disconnect in the company between the person that decided the game needed a DC penalty, and the person actually keeping track of the bugs/current state of the game." : could be, but to actually have made some test to "force some dc" ... I NEVER get any punnishement (lobby where handle with some people i know in order to avoid to totally gamethrow games).
So far, i am sorry but i see no valid reason to be agree :
=> Crash ? Ok but again if you play without crash again, you will not suffer from it.
=> KILLER BEING THE MAIN ROLE ? A good joke but not a valid argument as explain
=> Others survivors ? Could be but do that justify everything ? No.
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The only problem there is with dc penalty is that people who are affected by bugs are punished too. Which kinda makes you wonder, they declared in the past they know the diffrence between a rq and a bug related quit. Other than that, dc punishment needs to happen because of too many snowflakes who can not be bothered to have it their way for 100% of the gameplay experience.
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I wasn't trying to debunk anything. I don't argue with people who think the world is flat either. The detachment to reality they suffer, makes it pointless.
I'm just not interested in having a discussion with anyone who wants to argue that matchmaking, ranking, and the stability of the game are OK.
Everytime I hear the word numnuts I think of one of my favorite actors, Lee Erny. Rip buddy.
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You literally backed up all my points. I can't tell if you're trying to help me or not. You trolling bro?
Yes, when a killer DC's, the game ends for everyone.
If a killer decides to farm, then yes, like you said do gens and get out, because the killer has decided the game at that point.
"Claiming it should not be done because of bugs is just skewed beyond believe"
Yeah, we're definitely done here, This game is still in a beta state, by every definition of the word. Go read the tech support forums, or um, patch notes? rofl.
Again, I can't and won't bother to argue with people who think the world is flat. Enjoy that reality brother.
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Well then you should probably not make posts anymore if you can't handle people disagreeing with you.
You always do Gens, a killer wanting to farm does not mean you have to join in, a survivor wanting to farm does not mean you have to join in.
A survivor staring at the wall ruins the match, a killer staring at the wall ruins the match, both have equal control.
The DC penalty will come back, if you have issues that make you crash so many times that its an issue, then fix your stuff instead of attempting to play the game.
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Look I'll deal with your first line because honestly at this point this thread seems to be troll magnet.
Look, I'll play killer, you play survivor. I'm gonna DC 1 minute in. You're job is to prevent that. When you can explain to me how you'd do that, than I'll concede a killer doesnt have the final say on the match.As you said yourself, 1 person makes up an entire side. Thank you for helping me? I think?
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I have no problem with people disagreeing with me. I have no problem with people who think the world is flat either. Good for them.
I'm just not interested in discussing it.
"The DC penalty will come back, if you have issues that make you crash so many times that its an issue, then fix your stuff instead of attempting to play the game."
Yes, infinate loading screens, basement bugs, getting stuck in pallets, infinate mending legions, random computer restarts, the latest getting stuck crouching bug, getting matched with rank 20's constantly while in red ranks, getting stuck in tome farming matches, not having a wiggle bar, not being able to interact with objects as killer and survivor, not being able to pick up survivors and LITERALLY COUNTLESS other game breaking bugs, are all my fault and I should fix my #########.
Get outta here troll.
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If a killer dc, the match end and you escape with bp, the item you got and in the worst case a black pip. In two words : you win.
So yes killer don't have the final world as the result is the win of the other side if he dc. Also if you put the system to punnish, he will ALSO be punnish for that.
Care to explain me SERIOUSLY why dc punnishment shouldn't be in place with that argument ?
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Does the match go on when the killer DC's. Nope, There, explained. That is the ultimate control of a match. If a survivor DC's after the match starts, it continues for the other 3 people.
However even conceding the killer argument and what level of control they have, the other 2 points are more than valid enough, as I stated earlier.
Not sure why I'm here at this point. My feedback was for BHVR. Not to argue with dilusional fanboy's who likely have a playtime of less than 20 hours.
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"Does the match go on when the killer DC's. Nope, There, explained. That is the ultimate control of a match. If a survivor DC's after the match starts, it continues for the other 3 people." : but if killer dc, the game is over and survivor win ... So no the control is not in killer hand. Also as explain before the killer will be punnish for this ...
"However even conceding the killer argument and what level of control they have, the other 2 points are more than valid enough, as I stated earlier." : which two argument you have bring before are valid ? I break down all your argument ...
"Not sure why I'm here at this point. My feedback was for BHVR. Not to argue with dilusional fanboy's who likely have a playtime of less than 20 hours." : thanks for the free flame but you know you can easily check if my profile exist on steam or check on my profile if there is a link to my steam account (and it is link). So sorry but i get the feeling you are just trying to attack to try to make me pass for the bad guy ...
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Yes, that's my goal. To make people look like bad guys.
You just compared DBD to CS:GO. You invalidated your own arguemnt in one sentace as it shows your lack of knowledge of video games and the development process. No need to continue and please don't confuse people making themselves out to sound ignorant and ill-informed, to me doing it for them.
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"Yes, that's my goal. To make people look like bad guys." : so what is the point to make suggestion / feedback if whatever someone is not agree with you, he is bad and he need to be flame ^^ ?
"You just compared DBD to CS:GO. You invalidated your own arguemnt in one sentace as it shows your lack of knowledge of video games and the development process." : Ah :). So the problem is just a problem of reading and understanding .... Ok i will make it differently as it is either a bit too complicate for you or my senteance weren't clear (if it is the case i appologize). So i didn't compare DBD to CSGO , i use CS go as an exemple of punnishement for dc in a game with a rank system. By that you can see that your whole argument , and your attack is pointless.
" . No need to continue and please don't confuse people making themselves out to sound ignorant and ill-informed, to me doing it for them." : confuse people ? I mean .... If i take ONLY one exemple : you are the one who don't want a punnishement for dc because the killer is suppose to have the uperhand as he can dc... Should i tell more or is that enough ;) ?
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Feedback to the developer was my intention, as I've already stated.
I do not care to engage in discussions with people who deny actual factual data.
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"Feedback to the developer was my intention, as I've already stated." : ok fair enough
"I do not care to engage in discussions with people who deny actual factual data." : but where are the "facts" ? I mean if you tell me that your fact are the info you give in the main post ... I am sorry but there is no fact, at least nothing that fit with the fact definition
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Ok man, sheesh. Let's try this another way.
So you are saying matchmaking and ranking are OK? (even though the developers have said themselves, otherwise??)
So you are also saying DBD is in a state that it could be used for competitive e-sports? (Please answer with a link, to a major DBD release that did not have a 100 percent game-breaking bug mass-affecting it's players)
If you reply with YES to those 2 questions, then we just disagree too much to have a discussion. Nothing personal.
Facts my man. In just this last release, can you imagine how many people would be absolutely irate if they were banned for being stuck falling through the floor (the basement bug) as was mass-reported by hundreds of players. EVERY release has had one of these.
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Just had a greeeeeat game: first survivor hooked, purposely died on hook. Second and third got downed within seconds of each other. Second d/c, third hooked. Killer bbq&c and got me. All in all, 5 star game.
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"So you are saying matchmaking and ranking are OK? (even though the developers have said themselves, otherwise??)" : no i didn't say that as it is not link to the topic and you didn't talk about it. It is an interesting topic as the gamecore , but as we have some difficulty to understand each other, i think we can both agree that we should stay on the main topic.
"So you are also saying DBD is in a state that it could be used for competitive e-sports? (Please answer with a link, to a major DBD release that did not have a 100 percent game-breaking bug mass-affecting it's player)" : no but i guess you get this feeling as you didn't understood the first message and the second. Re read again please and tell me if there is something you don't get.
"If you reply with YES to those 2 questions, then we just disagree too much to have a discussion. Nothing personal." : it is a no to both questions as both question are not really link to the topic and the second seems to be cause by a missunderstood...
"Facts my man." : ok so found yours facts in the next argument, shall we ?
"In just this last release, can you imagine how many people would be absolutely irate if they were banned for being stuck falling through the floor (the basement bug) as was mass-reported by hundreds of players. EVERY release has had one of these." : so here are my answers :
=> First that is not the definition of a fact.
=> Second i make you remember that the system of punnishement for dc decrease as you don't dc for a few game... So unless you get these bug EACH game (which honnestly i barely meet even if i play way more survivor recently with archive) you have nothing to fear. Also that would be a reason to justify a quick action or an unban motive.
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Literally proved my point to be true.
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I love that you state I am detached from reality, despite me agreeing with you on those subjects. The level of arrogance here is astonishing.
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Guess you should stop playing the game then because if you really are suffering from all of that on a regular bases something is really wrong.
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You don't understand the line between fact and opinion. The difference between acknowledging there are issues with matchmaking in the game, and believing that those issues are justification to quit a team game. The first is fact. The second is opinion. And you are so arrogant, that if people say that they don't agree with the opinion part of your post, their discussions should be dismissed as not understanding the reality of the situation. Your opinions are not fact.
But you won't engage them. Despite doing so frequently. The only troll in your thread is you.
The fallacies you are engaged in are called 'Begging the Question' (Assuming you are correct as part of your argument) and Hasty Generalization (You frequently discuss only your experiences, rather than bringing up a wider range of evidence).
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yeah..yeah well....I know i am but what are you!
wait. I think I screwed that up. Been a while since 2nd grade. Even then a pointless one line response was at least followed up by a funny face or rude gesture. So. Got pics you wanted to add to or should I just use my imagination to picture you sticking your tongue out at me and going nanananaboooooboooo
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Like I said, the only troll here is you. Now you aren't even hiding it.
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Everything I've mentioned regarding the bugs, matchmaking, ranking etc. is documented by the devs themselves in their release notes / known issues. How is that in any form, a generalization.
So I'll ask you another way and we can call this a day.
If you are stuck in the basement, unable to move, and have to sit there and wait out the game, you feel that's OK and the game is ready for a DC penalty even under those circumstances, am I right? Even if historically, it's happened EVERY release.
It's not arrogant to not want to get into a discussion with a person who has such drastic difference of opinion. It's not arrogant knowing that it would lead to an exchange, just like this one where 2 sides see so far apart, it's better to just agree to disagree.
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You deserved that and you know it. That was a stupid response. That's why you replied with an unnecessarily elaborate response right after.
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I already told you how. You already said you don't intend to listen.
Yes, I have been one hooked in the basement. No, I didn't DC.
Yes, it is arrogant to dismiss a person's opinion as being delusional because they disagree with you. You did not attempt to agree to disagree, your reaction was to turn up your nose and begin insulting people who disagreed with you.
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I deserved to have you say my opinion should be ignored because you disagree with me, despite you admitting you didn't even read what the opinion was?
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From what I've read so far, you refuse to take part in any thoughtful discussion around your points, and you'd rather defend your right to automatically have the power to say someones point is completely moot because.. you disagree with it?
That isn't how change happens, nor is it a great way to debate your own ideas. It just makes you look like an idiot with staff come into these discussions for feedback, and see the way you lash out at anyone for daring to disagree with your opinions.
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There's been plenty of thoughtful discussion here and some points I just don't want to discuss. Offering up your unwanted thread summary analysis and opinion on my responses while replying with 0 relevance to the original discussion, is also not how change happens. It's how forum posts get derailed and locked.
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