DS Balance idea, Gen times opinion
About DS: I guess the problem its not all about time he remains active cause 1: low time = killer not discouraged to chase you and wait to put you down and on the hook again. 2 : more time= killer getting DSed after chasing others, or founding you in a ramdom patrol. 60 seconds of DS is the standart time a chase takes on a uninjured survivor so its balanced.
The actual DS problem is getting saved with bt, taking a hit on purpose, getting down and not picked up by the killer, filling up the help bar and use unbreakable or getting saved for other survivor (its a 4 x 1 game).
To avoid that abuse we should do something like "while DS is active the survivor can only recover 40% till DS be used or desactivate".
My opinion on Gen time is that is nice time to do alone but too short for teams (with boxes or addons), regular teams repairing with nothing isnt broken cause the game already has a different gen time calcule to that situations so its faster but not like 2x speed. I guess we should at least for the perks make something like " the gens ignore more than 2 people prove thyself", or something like that.
Devs should hire testers or something like that to calculate the most balanced gen time while 4 people are repairing with everything. and fix accordingly the calculator based on the perks and addons of the survivors
The fun on the game will only be made being balanced, not nerfing or buffing too much everything, a survival game needs to have collateral effects on every decision of kit on the trial, and rare itens need to be rare cause they will not have collateral effects to the user.
Comments
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Where is this "60 seconds being a standard chase" being pulled from?
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Usyliss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD5fobnF4Zw&t=22s
5:57 to 7:15 If you want to put someone down instead of hitting leaving strategy this will happen.
9:30 to 10:50 already injured
16:15 to 17:00 another match, chase win using mind game
Monto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbA7TvK7BWo
2:50 to 3:30 He used pallets?
4:35 to 5: 13 almost 40 seconds chase and not downed, i guess you can imagine a full chase time
Noob3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVpnzUdHlJs
0:36 to 2:10 how many gens were made in a 1:34 chase? (in one minute i count 2 gens)
7:20 to 8:02 manage to get exposed in 40 seconds, loses the chase
9:12 to 10:39 all red ranks killers are having a bad day and you are right i guess
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I think the right way to balance DS is simple:
- Deactivate it when another survivor is hooked.
- Have a faster tick down time when:
- in a locker
- working on a gen
- healed at full health
I think these changes would be better than what you proposed for DS.
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Just make it go down only outside chase, and goes faster when working on gen or full healed.
when slugged and inside the terror radius your recovery will be cut to 40% but ds timer dont go down or go slower.
also missing DS does not deactivate the perk, reason one : you have only 2 oportunnities to use it on game, 2 getting tunneled twice is a good reason to have a second chance dont you think?
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but yeah you re right
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DS only needs to last 20 seconds, not deplete when you are down, and maybe even not work at all if you just unhooked someone with your DS still in effect. Simple. If 20 seconds has gone by and you aren't being chased, you are not being tunneled.
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this
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perfect. a man of culture, i see.
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DS is fine the way it is and changes are not really needed. I think the majority of the people find DS a majority issue during ENDGAME which I know that it can be frustrating I do play killer too, but sometimes we get those games. I love it when I run an endgame build, but I hate it one by one I hook everyonewithin a 15s span and everyone’s DS is activated, the exit gates are open, and you can’t pick anyone up cause they have DS even though you didn’t tunnel them, but all you can do is hope they don’t have DS or they miss DS.
Now if you are complain getting hit with DS mid-game honestly it’s not a big deal it’s just 5 seconds and it’s not let they are escape anytime soon so once it’s gone it’s gone.
As for the Idea of DS deactivating after someone else gets hook this is a terrible idea and see so many people suggest this and here why this is a bad idea
Imagine you’re being farmed you get pulled of the hook killer downs the savior survivor and goes after you and downs you. Killer goes back an hooks the other survivors guess what?
If DS was activated you could’ve potentially saved yourself or bought time eventually getting picked by another survivor because the fear of DS
VS
DS is deactivates because he hooked another survivor he comes back a pick you up an there’s nothing you can do to save yourself.
See the problem?
Here’s another example Imagine being you got saved and Killer Decided you know what They’re gotta proxy/ FaceCamped there’s 1 generator left. You’re friend 99% the generator and your DS is activated. You got in a get grabbed on purpose while you’r grab you hit DS while the other person saves the hooks survivor. Friends pops generator boom hopefully you have adrenaline and sprint away. As for if DS was deactivated you couldn’t make this epic play. You can’t even continue this is unfair because killer was FaceCamping. I’m not making up these scenarios These thing actually happen quite occasionally/often.
DS is complicated.
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I agree with all the people who say the current state of DS needs an adjustment, it just doesn't feel balanced and fair to the killer in its current state. It can punish him or her for playing efficiently. The other day I ds'd a Huntress that had already chased and hooked someone else after I got unhooked, healed and started working on a gen. Really felt bad for her, because it strucks me as bad game design and bad balance that benefits survivors too much.
But I don't think DS should deactivate when the killer hooks someones else, that on the othe hand just benefits camping and tunelling too much. I agree that the timer could be reduced to 30-40 seconds and it should deactive once you are fully healed, start healing someone else, unhook someone else, start working on a gen or start opening the exit gates.
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I agree. Someone gets unhooked and body blocks for their savior, I leave them to chase, down AND hook the other player then come back to pick up the first person... eat a stun because it's only been 50 seconds... please tell me how that is tunneling @Peanits
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So here's my more fleshed out DS rework idea:
Decisive Strike stuns the killer for a duration of 3 to 5 seconds (could even leave it at 5, because this will actually punish TRUE tunnelers)
- The effect lasts 20 seconds instead of 60.
- Decisive Strike does not proc if you are grabbed out of a locker, or off a trap.
- The timer freezes if you are in dying state, so killers can't slug you and wait it out. Do NOT attach it to chase mechanics, otherwise stealth killers will negate it. This does not apply if what downed you was a protection hit.
- If you unhook another survivor or stun the killer while Decisive Strike is still in effect, it is revoked.
It's up for debate, but I think this is a good start and would both deter tunneling/slugging, and would also completely deter survivors and their little sense of invincibility because they have DS. 20 seconds is more than enough, because honestly, if it's been 20 seconds, and you're not being chased, you're not being tunneled, and therefore don't need DS.
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Number 1 is excessive.
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How so? If it's anti tunnel, someone else being hooked effectively removes the possibility that you are being tunneled.
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Double slug scenario. Guarantees no ds. Guaranteed tunnel.
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Okay, compromise - if you're slugged, the timer freezes; but in exchange, DS only lasts 20 seconds.
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Good idea
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I don't actually think DS is a problem. However if I was going to change I'd simply disable it if another survivor got put on a hook, unless the DS user got slugged.
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man, you said so many words about DS. why don't we just focus on the Enduring...
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Why? Hooking someone else is literally The opposite of tunneling... and survivors claim they need DS because killers are tunneling pieces of crap right
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Good idea
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This change is bad in my opinion because sligged survivors will be able to crawl the entire map once the gates are open, and the killers will still be able to wait 20 seconds following the unhooked and just down him with zero punishment
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Why would they still be slugged if the timer doesn't deplete and the killer goes after someone else?
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ds should be gone if the survivor goes inside a locker u cant wait there (gens will be done) u cant slug them u cant do nothing but give them a free card to ds u and escape also if u have time to do gens you are not being tunneled should deactivate as fast as u touch your objective, if u have time to do gens pretty much you are not being chased even less being tunneled. also 60 seconds is way too much 35/40 and 45 seems more about right. 60 is way too much pretty much 2 survivors can do 1 gen in that time and about half of another if the other is close, at the same time there is a 4° survivor at the game doing stuff.
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Because lets suppose you are on the end game, and they unhook a survivor. You will hit the survivor and they will try to crawl to an exit gate, which in the current game state with ds basically ends with a garanteed survivor escape. So you can try to wait the 60 seconds, but if it is imfinite you just lose
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I guess it is really hard to balance this perk and I really don't like it, cuz many people abuses it. There are already enough second chance/ crutch perks in this game (DS, BT, Unbreakable etc.).
Imo DS is only legit for solo survivors who are getting farmed by their random mates (without BT in front of the killer). How about giving DS the same effect like BT? I'm playing both sides 50/50 btw..
The idea deactivating DS after hooking up another survivor sounds good, but it won't work. Too many killers would abuse this by slugging the rescued person and hooking up the rescuer...
Reducing the timer of DS won't also help. Lot of killers are watching on their clock and will pick up the slugged person, after the timer is over :/
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They are literally the best survivors against bad killers. When Ayrun plays killer he doesnt even take 10 seconds to down people.
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Makes sense... but some people could take advantage of it because of how the game counts a chase.
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Not really. It's an anti tunnel perk. If someone gets chased down and hooked before you in the 60 second period, or you hop in a locker in front of the killer (ex. basement) and another survivor gets hooked, they're not clearly tunneling you, just taking advantage of your bad luck/choices. It's supposed to have a niche role, and it does way more than that right now.
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Enduring is rather weak. It doesn't work on DS or Head On stuns, so it really only pairs with Spirit Fury. To the point where if you run Enduring by itself, people assume you have it and drop the pallet early, making the bonus less useful over time.
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How about you can't recover if you have ds
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If this change make it trough it would make DS worse than deja vu.
And if devs consider changing DS they should as well fix tunneling and camping :)
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Exactly, you are totally right. But what I want to say is how did the Enduring work in the past...It was used to counter the DS and the other kinds of stuns. So maybe we can pull back the past Enduring.
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If anyone complains about DS still, i feel bad for you...
the devs literally said it would be permanent and not be changed. so get used to it because it’s not going anywhere...
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DS is a 5s stun, which 1s of them is an animation of getting out of the killer hands.
And btw it is bugged on some killers like freddy which reduces 1s of the DS stun...
so enduring would decrease it by 2s (like it was before)
So 5-3
2s of stun?
No thanks, and this is why devs make it to dont affect Head On or DS.
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This would be useless. I don’t get your logic here with the 20 seconds. So typical scenario takes place with a proxy camper waiting for an unhook. Unhook happens as they make their way back to the hook, and they go after the unhooked guy. You are saying if that person doesn’t go down within 20 seconds, they aren’t being tunneled? That doesn’t make any sense....am I missing something? They are 100% being tunneled in this very common example.Tunneling doesn’t mean just being downed immediately. If the killer chases after the unhooked guy, whether they go down in 3 seconds or run them around for 2 minutes....it’s the very definition of tunneling.
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why don't we just allow the Enduring to have two kinds of reduction rate for the different situations? one is for the perk stuns, and the other one is for the pallets.
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Decisive strike doesn't bug me unless it's after all generators are done and the gates are open. If you play one of these survivor teams and you don't get a single hook until the very end. They always troll you with decisive strike. Why can't decide to strike be disabled after all generators are finished? That way Killers can't tunnel survivors from the start but then survivors cant abuse
it at the end
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So you just slug the survivor with absolutely no penalty for doing so? How about people who use ds just get auto hooked when they hit the skill check so your life is easier
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I think DS should immediately deactivate when the Survivor interacts with something (no more invincibility lockers), another Survivor gets downed before the DS user (if the Killer had time to down another Survivor before getting back to you, then that means you failed to run away in time and don't deserve the escape), or the exit gates are powered (the stun is way too crippling at that point).
It shouldn't activate if the Killer is more than 32 meters away (let's be honest, if the Killer is looking for Survivors halfway across the map and is able to come back and still find you after you're unhooked, then that's you just being bad at hiding, not tunneling).
These changes will prevent DS from being abused and actually make it a fair perk.
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Ds has no other counterplay besides slugging and they get picked up quickly because of recovery and still are able to have ds this removes the abuse of hopping in lockers or doing gens in the killers face while creating map pressure since other survivors need to hop off gens to pick up the other person
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But it should be less abusable in that case. DS is incredibly powerful at the moment, and easy to use.
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Well, you're already forced to slug with the current DS, so it's not like you're doing anything differently...
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Not when another person gets downed, but when they get hooked I think is more fair.
But the part about interacting with an object, especially locker or generator, is a good one I never thought of.
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You need tunneling more easy. DS need buff
90 seg
8 seg stun killer
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No tunneling. Done
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wat?
Typical survivor main answer. It's not always a matter of tunneling. Tunneling = ignoring everyone else to go for you. If they hook someone else in the mean time, you are not being tunneled. Period.
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Typical main killer. Nerf good survivor perk.
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I'm a survivor main. Bill, specifically.
And it's not a nerf. If DS was "anti tunnel" as you continuously claim it is, why should it still be active after someone else gets hooked? At that point, clearly you're not being tunneled, as the killer hasn't ignored you and gone for someone else.
Please, back out of this debate. You have literally zero chance of a logical standpoint in your favor.
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Than basically you agree with having a 2s stun? which will as well reward killers for tunneling?
Dont you remember the PTB where everyone was complaining about DS not having enough time for survivors to make distance..?
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