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Killers and Tunneling
(Edit)
since the discussion keeps going off topic, or my point to be exact, here’s an edit.
my main point is about the penalty instilled on survivors that are tunneled without the killer going to other survivors or attempting to kill other survivors. 5 gens still up and the killer targets one individual, even if gens are completed during that time and the one survivor has kept the killer distracted BECAUSE he’s tunneling, that survivor is not rewarded and more so penalized post-match or death
A survivor loses pip, time wasted in the match, and receives little to no BP.
Oh, and for the record since it matters so much to the toxic majority, I am a killer main. I see the issue with this sort of tunneling.
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(Original Post)
Why is tunneling not penalized? Or hook camping? It’s quite irritating when you play back to back games with nothing but killers that tunnel causing you to lose rank.
if as a survivor, I loop a killer for an extended period and get tunneled and killed, why am I penalized more than a killer?
Yeah, it’s part of the game, blah blah blah. But there can definitely be some system involved to not award killers for chasing the same survivor for “X” amount of time or for hooking a survivor “x” amount of times before messing with other survivors. What is more aggravating than playing in a game, spending 5 minutes running from a killer that’s tunneling and end up de-pipping because of it?
Survivors can be just as toxic with advanced looping but once a killer gets a hold of you, they can ruin your entire game out of spite. It’s happening too much recently on Xbox, to say the least.
Comments
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Both side can do "efficient" things that annoy the other side yet arent against the rules. If you dont like it get DS, i hear its an anti tunneling perk, apparently.
Also face camping a hook is penalized... slightly.
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its not...if a killer isn't running an obession perk and someone is the obession..EVERYONE gets slugged
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Killers are allowed to play efficiently.
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Its always funny how the community adapts to certain changes in a way the devs did not intend. The hatch was meant to give the final survivor a chance yet most just slug the third and hunt the 4th. DS was meant to be anti tunnel but people just tunnel and slug for a minute.
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Remember, kids: if you don't walk across the entire map and face a corner for 60 seconds, you're a tunneling camper!
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then penalize:
- genrushing
- gen camping, tapping gens during chases (it take a lot longer to damage gens)
- using BT on survivors who have DH and DS, lol. And the healthy survivor doesnt care to get injured, because 2 generators were done in 1st minute and the healthy guy must be chased and put on hook 3 times, LOL
- survivors can loop killers for all 5 generators without any penalty, so penalise them for every generator done. -10k bp for every generator done during chase.
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it’s got nothing to do with that. I main killer and when I play survivor I see this too often:
killer gets looped because he chases too long, finally catches the survivor, hooks, waits around or constantly circles the hook. When a survivor is brave enough to unhook them, the killer will literally ONLY chase the injured.
DS isn’t necessarily a counter because it’s a one and done perk. If you miss the skill check, gg. I literally am a killer main and tunneling is all to an abusive tactic as well as slugging. It’s completely unfair to Survivors.
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penalizing for gens done during a chase? That’s an ignorant statement. Considering a survivor will always be chased while gens are being repaired. As a killer main, I drop a chase if it lasts too long. If you’re not smart enough as a killer to do that and they knock out gens, that’s your problem. There are also perks to counter gen rushes. Ruin, Thrilling Tremors, Corrupt Intervention, Thanatophobia, etc. Killers have plenty of counters to survivors and vice versa. The topic is penalizing hook camping and tunneling more. You can’t penalize a survivor for looping when that’s their only survival tool besides hiding.
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You’re missing the point.
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Who?
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you do realize he's taking the piss out of survivor mains... right?
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Why do chases last too long? Is it because you are bad? There are no counters to genrush. You can only slow down repairs a bit. Also, killer can chase only 1 survivor at a time.
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You unfortunately. He was twisting the argument against survivors to show how flawed the argument is.
Quol above said it best.
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The argument is not flawed though. Penalizing killers for tunneling or camping hooks is a legitimate argument. I killer main and I can see where it’s unfair to a survivor.
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That’s good that you have perspective but the argument is flawed.
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Depending on the survivor set, playing "fair" will cause the killer to get no kills and depip himself.
There's no easy way to say this... If you run a killer for 5 minutes, you deserve to be tunneled and camped. The only way you're doing that is by running him towards the god loops, which is just as much BM as tunneling. I won't run someone like you, I will hit you, let you go to the strong loops and then go patrol the gens, but when I finally catch you, rest assured that you're going to die.
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You’re exactly what’s wrong with the game then. If you spend your time chasing a survivor that’s better than you, you deserve to not get them. It’s very simple to avoid that survivor and go for another. If you have to tunnel out of spite because a survivor was better than you, you should reevaluate your standards on gameplay. Being toxic because someone’s better than you is pathetic.
i just proved to myself, how easy it is to not tunnel nor slug and still get a 4K. I did it in 2 games with 2 separate killers. Played reds/purples that attempted gen rushes. Here were my builds:
Mirror Mike (Lvl 34):
Hex:Ruin, Hex: Haunted Grounds, Pop Goes the Weasel, Hex: Noed
Wraith (Lvl 15):
Predator, Ruin, Sloppy Butcher, Bloodhound
Did not slug, did not tunnel, killed all 4 survivors even chasing the last without closing hatch. So killers are already viable and tunneling just enables a toxic community.
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Go back and read what I posted, I won't chase you that long. As soon as someone like you books it to a god loop, I back off, but once I pick off the weaker members of your team, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you.
That said, it's good strategy to get rid of a strong survivor if you get the opportunity. Besides, if you're "better" than the killer, you wouldn't be griping on here.
Lol, you run literally the strongest perks possible on meyers, which most survivors will give you crap about, and you run a map controlling beast of a killer and act like every killer can 4K while playing "fair". Go get clown or trapper and see how well you do.
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go back and read all I’ve posted. I’m an average red 4 survivor and main killer. I main clown and get 4ks nearly every day with him. So... what’s the problem? And you prove my point, killers are already stacked with perks, so why boost tunneling?
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If tunneling/facecamping is to be punished, gen rushing needs to be punished as well. Both finish the match very quickly.
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@28_stabs Lets stop THIS in 2020. Theres always that one post that steers way off track of the topic trying to compensate "Well then nerf this/that." Why not just open your own thread mentioning this? Or better yet, give actual feedback to OP about why tunneling and camping is a legit strategy and not a penalty.
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Just because you can, doesn't mean others can as well, especially with matchmaking bugged so horribly. Fact remains that tunneling is a valid and effective strategy. I used it quite a lot as a rank 13 killer going against red rank survivors, because it felt so damned good to kill the guy that ran me ragged. I've changed now, because there are more effective options, but if I get that one guy that knows the maps well, he will die once I catch him.
The bottom line here is that survivors will gripe about anything and everything when the game doesn't go exactly as they want. If you're good enough to run people for that long, then you're good enough to avoid them, do gens, unhook, and THEN run them to death and get your pip. It sounds like you want to poke the bear, then get mad when he bites you.
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Thanks, it’s aggravating that nobody has a legit reason for tunneling.
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There is a penalty
The person who made the unsafe unhook gets less emblems and bloodpoints
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First, I’m far from mad. You’re a rank 13 killer and you’ve already started tunneling. At that rank, you should practice playing without tunneling. I play in red and I don’t tunnel and I get 3-4K every game. You have no legitimate reason for tunneling except the fact you get looped and have no counter for it. That’s toxic. Which is my point. Killers like you are toxic because someone is better than you.
If I’m being looped and cannot catch the survivor, I leave. I only worry about them when I catch them off guard. Looping is a survivors tool for survival. Very few survivors intentionally get into chases with a killer, and I avoid them as well. Survivors are limited in avoiding tunneling because it’s just that, focusing on one survivor. I’ve had survivor teammates body block for me and the killer still focuses on me.
It’s a terrible strategy actually and will only make you less effective at the game when you face a gen rushing team. If you can’t effectively kill off a squad without focusing solely on one survivor then you’re not a good killer. As I’ve listed, there are plenty of methods of clearing survivors without tunneling. I don’t even care about slugging because survivors have counter perks to that. When you tunnel, you eliminate a survivors chance to pip, gain BP, and enjoy the game. It’s a toxic tactic.
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why? genrushing = killrushing
yes, this is the feedback. If you dont understand it, play the other side. The bottom ranks do not count.
If I do not take Rancor, survivors piss all over my hooks and me. Am I killer? Who is the killer?
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He doesn't have to do anything. it's a game with multiple ways to play it. he can play how he wants.
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That’s a survivor penalty and it’s actually counterproductive for a survivor because it takes away from a survivors potential for a “safe hook”. You all are literally making more excuses for a killer tunneling and I’m assuming it’s because you lack gameplay on the other side.
I’ve achieved red rank on both sides and mostly play killer unless I’m with my group. It’s very very unnerving to be tunneled and as a killer I find no fun in chasing one person. I’ve tried it before and lost because of the team completing gens. My argument comes from it being completely unfair to the survivor on the other hand.
They can be a great survivor and lose rank because of a toxic killer. It’s unfair. Killers are given many tools to beat survivors and yet most of the community finds it completely fair to tunnel. That’s sad.
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Do you just choose to ignore the fact I’ve consistently labeled myself a killer main?
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and Im survivor main, lol
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if i see 4 tool boxes i bring an ebony, if i see 2 or more flashlights, lightborn to piss them off. if i see 2 or more medkits, sloppy / franklins, keys, franklins / ebony
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Actually I'm rank 9 now and routinely get brutal and merciless against red and purple ranks. Again, you're not reading, I leave when a survivor runs to the strong loops, I'm not stupid, but if I catch a strong survivor out in the open, the smart play is to eliminate that survivor early. At bare minimum, I tunnel them to get the DS out of the way, so it doesn't bite me at the EGC. Plus when they're on death hook, they tend to get a lot less bold.
Quite a few survivors intentionally get into a chase with the killer to buy time for the rest of the team. Looping is one thing, but being able to loop a killer for 5 minutes, which is literally all 5 gens, is what's getting you tunneled.
You say looping is a survivors tool for surviving, but can't recognize that tunneling is a killers tool for killing. Survivors have a ton of toxic tactics that they have NO PROBLEM abusing.
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You admit you intentionally tunnel because a survivor is better than you. Take a minute to realize how toxic that is. If you play killer and you get looped for all 5 gens, that’s literally your fault and not the survivors. There are COUNTERS to LOOPING, there are NO COUNTERS to TUNNELING.
Killers are blessed with perks and add ons to eliminate survivors fairly quickly. A Mirrored Mike with the perks I’ve listed is a prime example. Survivors have no method of countering tunneling or hook camping. Yeah, there’s DS, but as I’ve mentioned, miss the skill check and gg and it’s a one and done perk. Meanwhile, a killer can stalk down the ONE survivor they chose to tunnel and rid them. You can’t complain about survivors having the capability of gen rushing when you risk all your time tunneling.
Maybe I should’ve specified my peeve against tunneling. You cannot counter it. No matter how good of a survivor you are, it takes one half-decent killer to ruin your game. Name a toxic survivor tactic that can’t be countered and is on the same level as Tunneling?
DS? One and done perk, possibility of missed skill check.
DH? Puts you in exhausted, if you fail you’re caught, slim chance of escape.
BT? Have to be in killers radius (Hook Campers) and lasts for one hit, has to mend self and can still be tunneled.
Gen Rush? Ruin, Thrilling Tremors, Corrupt Intervention, Thanatophobia, and probably missing other perks
It takes a really good 4-man survivor team to win or troll a killer. Most survivor teams consist of solo players or 2-man coms. So it’s 1v1-1-1-1
Most survivor speed perks result in exhausted. Tunneling is a legit unnecessary and toxic tactic that killers use as a petty maneuver as you’ve vastly expressed.
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You are such an entitled survivor, it's not even funny. The counter to tunneling is to not get caught in the first place. Use stealth, use the 20+ pallets, use DS, use the exhaustion perk, etc. Your counter to looping is "don't chase that survivor", my counter to tunneling is "don't get caught by the killer". If you're rank 4, you shouldn't be missing a DS skill check.
As for me, I am using past examples, I absolutely tunneled before I got more experienced and I will still do it now if the game is lost and I am trying to safety pip. Had a survivor on The Game that knew the map well, he used every safe pallet optimally and ran me ragged. I switched targets, but he was always right there. Once he was out of pallets, you bet I tunneled him to death, because the doors were open and I had no other choice.
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Far from an entitled survivor. You obviously choose to ignore my constant, constant reiterating of me being a killer main. Not chasing a looper isn’t the only counter to looping... you must not be very experienced at killer. Plenty of killers are natural anti-loopers and with a few add-ons completely nullify looping except for the occasional pro-looper.
I actually don’t use DS. I mostly run perks for altruism since I try to help my team as much as possible.
end game is different. If you tunnel from the get go that’s the issue. Each survivor is bound to be caught or at least chased by the killer once unless they completely just scale the walls and hide, which gets nothing done in favor of the survivors.
Your excuses for tunneling are:
- Survivor is better than me so they deserve to be tunneled.
- Don’t get caught.
- Decisive Strike, a one and done perk.
In reality, I’m not an entitled survivor because I mostly play killer as it’s the fastest method for BP right now. I don’t tunnel, I rarely slug, and I don’t chase a better survivor unless I corner them or surprise them. I play with aggressive killer perks to prevent the need in tunneling.
You are an entitled killer because you don’t see the unfairness in tunneling. You claim to be a survivor main but defend something that makes it difficult to play survivor. Regardless if a killer kills everyone, tunneling is a petty tactic to target and eliminate one survivor. I main killer and I see the issue in tunneling. DS is not the cure all to it.
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Ok i was not that helpfull with that last post
I'm sorry
I play both sides too and i get it, getting tunneled sucks, same as getting genrushed sucks
But it's a strategy in the game and like (most) strategy's there a counter strategy
There are 2 ways to get chased as a survivor, you can chase to stall for time for your teammates and you can chase to try an lose the killer
While the latter is harder that's the one you want to do to counter tunneling
If you find you get tunneled a lot try running more anti-tunnel perks
While DS+unbreakable is the most popular it's not really that effective in terms of losing the killer, that's more of a stall chase perk combo
A combo that really helps me against tunnelers is Lithe+Dance with Me. Just vault a window and dissapear
Iron will also really helps
Try and get in the mindset of if he can't find you he can't tunnel you
Perks like We'll make it, borrowed time, MoM also help to prevent your teammates getting tunneled, same with bodyblocking, and medkits to give the unhooked person another healthstate, wich doesn't make them such an appealing target
This all assumes ofcourse that the killer wasen't right there when you got unhooked, if thet were then you should blame the teammate that unhooked you, not the killer who took the most effecient way out
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No problem. In order for BT to work, you have to be within the killers radius. We’ll make it is good, but it doesn’t prevent tunneling. Bodyblocking doesn’t either. I’ve played killers that legit tunnel one survivor. Which is my point, I understand tunneling to an extent, as in, you’ve hooked everyone once or twice and now want to eliminate survivors. I’m not for 3 hooking one person right away. Also, lithe works to an extent as it knocks you in exhausted.
Anyways, I’ve yet to get reason why killers tunnel besides “i can do what I want” “the survivor looped me” or “don’t get caught”. It’s just a toxic tactic and I’ll leave it at that. There’s nothing more that I can say that i haven’t. This community is obviously filled with toxic killers that have no reasoning.
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Can i just say this one thing? If you are a survivor and get tunneled, its tike to use that to draw the killer away from your team so you cam be accomplishing something instead of crying that its happening. And likewise for killers if you are being looped then leave and dont chase that person anymore, all they are doing is wasting your time. I know people are upset that killers have all these killing and tough perks, but so do survivors. Could you imagine is survivors had hex style perks that a killer could remove? The killer is the power role and has to kill to win and the survivors have to survive to win. Stop complaining about how it isnt fair that the killer has to tunnel someone sometimes and make use of it. Or go piss off and let the rest of your team lose cause you go full moron
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Go and read the full discussion. I’m a killer main. The point is, killers abuse tunneling. I played 4 straight matches where I died within 5 minutes and was the only survivor hooked. My team attempted body blocks, crossing paths, etc and I was tunneled. It has nothing to do with complaining and more so bringing awareness to how abusive it is. You can only run from a killer so much before you’re caught. On console, you get hit when you really shouldn’t have. I don’t care about perks that was never my argument. I said killers have perks to be viable without tunneling. Survivors have perks to be viable without trolling s killer. However, killers are vastly above survivors in viability for gameplay. Tunnel and you win regardless of getting a 4K. Survivors are solo when it comes to rank, I lost 4 pips because I was tunneled from start til I died in 4 games straight, without a single other survivor being touched. 3 gens eliminated. I don’t care cause it’s simple to regain rank, but I try to enjoy the game and it takes away from the enjoyment. From a killers perspective, tunneling is unnecessary to win.
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Truth
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You died, because you are too careless. Your teammates and killer didnt waste their time. You were outplayed by all other players (killers and survivors). You are the worst player in all 4 games you talk about. Killers are not guilty that you died 4 times in a row. It was YOU. I repeat, it was YOU. You didnt hide well and you expected to have an easy game.
Also, killing more than one survivor is not a rule, its a gamble. If there is enough time, killer can choose to try to get more kills. If there is no time to get more kills, nobody have to go after all survivors.
And Im survivor main!
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Exhaustion refreshes when you are hooked so you always have it available when you need it
The reason killers tunnel is because of effeciency
It's not really a toxic tactic, just like genrush isn't
3 survivors is just easier to deal with then 4 most of the time that's the sole reason
Try getting better at losing the killer, you would be surprised how many killers can lose you just by hiding after they lost line of sight
Try and get in this mindset of 2 different types of chasing
If a killer puts all their pressure on you and can't actually get you in the end that's almost a garentied loss for that killer
That's the weakness of tunneling so that's what you need to exploit to beat it
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DS is garbage and you REALLY think smart killers don't know when you have it? Killers don't mind slugging because they do it everytime at green, purple and red ranks. DS would be better if it didn't have a time limit.
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Punish killers for trying to get someone lul
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punish killers for killing. punish survivors for surviving. there fixed.
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I know how to shut down loops with most killers, but since you're a killer main, you know that it's a constant time crunch. Say you have trapper, sure you can shut down the current loop, but the survivor will see it and bail, costing you precious time.
Yes, it's A ok to tunnel a survivor that's better than you, but if they're truly better than you, it's going to take a while to do it. It's a HORROR GAME, hiding is the whole idea. How many horror movies do you see where the killer gives the survivor multiple chances?
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Okay this probably isn't going to be a popular opinion, but I tunnel when I feel there is a reason to. I'm a survivor main and typically only do killer when I have dailies or challenges for some sort of event. If I am playing killer and I get survivors that loop me I leave them, it's not worth my time to get constantly looped while everyone else is doing gens. That's fine. What I have a problem with is when survivors are toxic for no apparent reason. I'm sorry if you sneak around using Urban invasion and hide around corners from me just to wait until I pass by and drop pallets at me when I'm not even chasing you and don't even know you're there and then proceeded to flashlight me over the pallets? That's just bull.
This literally happened tonight I chased the person for a little bit, they started looping me so I went off to check on the generators and cut my losses with the chase. Then as I'm going to chase another survivor the same person comes along and starts trying to flashlight me from beside me to get my attention. They basically proceeded to follow me around the whole match to throw pallets down even when we weren't in a Chase and flashlight me even when I didn't even know they were there. If you go into a match with a flashlight and do you intend to not do gens not unhook people and not heal people and you just want to go around the killer and drops it on them and blind them repeatedly? Yeah I tunnel the ######### out of them until they died after the third or fourth time they did this.
I didn't just do this because I was frustrated with being followed and screwed with, I did this out of frustration as a survivor main with somebody who was obviously doing absolutely nothing to contribute to their team. I literally ended up letting the other three go because I ended up hooking them all twice and this person didn't even bother to try and save any of them their only mission during this match was to bully me with not one not two but three different flashlights. If I get a survivor like that that is just creeping around and doing nothing, or deliberately screwing with me instead of actually participating in the match? You bet I'm going to tunnel them to death. Then I'm going to let their teammates go because they're a piece of crap and dragging their entire team down with them.
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So, I would like to give my opinion on this. I have been red rank survivor and killer. Lower red rank survivor and usually rank 1 and 2 killer. There is 100% times that it is a good idea to tunnel. If you are not running an obsession perk and there is not an obsession that means there is no Decisive Strike and if that person is a weak link then you can kill them to slow down the game. There are definently perks that help killers slow down obviously such as ruin, pop goes the weasel, thrilling tremors and so forth but there are going to be points where those will not be effective. Ruin could be taken out at any time and for Pop sometimes you see another survivor and either go for the gen kick or the survivor. Sometimes you cannot do both as the survivor will gain too much distance and it is pointless chasing. If the gens are being worked on then thrilling tremors isnt that useful. This being said, there are many perks as a survivor that allows you to make multiple mistakes in one chase and still get out. There are too many scenarios to cover one by one. Easy ones to mention that tunneling is viable is that there is no DS, waiting out borrowed time to insta kill someone on a hook to slow down the game later since the killer has to wait the 15 seconds, or just an easy survivor to catch and so forth. Killers should 100% not be punished for this. If a survivor is getting tunneled then they are making a mistake or the person who saved them is. If you are solo queueing I can understand how this gets infuriating since they might go for the save without borrowed time and yes that does suck but there isnt much you can do about it unless you have DS which at high ranks is very common. All in all, killers should not be punished for the survivors mistakes because they already kind of are. Survivors have perks to save them from their mistakes that killers have to already deal with. So if a killer sees a weak link or a strong survivor that is in a bad position they should capitalize. It shouldnt just be "Oh, I just hooked that person. I cant hook them again" If you want that to be the game or thinks that is how it should be played then I'm sorry. Killers are there to kill and punish. Survivors are trying to escape.
To comment on one thing you said that there are counters to looping which is true sometimes. There are safe loops and unsafe loops for survivors. Against some of the best loops in the game and if the survivor runs them right there is almost no counter to them. Ironworks of Misery is one of the worst maps of this. If there is a survivor that is doing these things well they need to die, and they need to die fast so if you see them start messing up then you should punish them.
When you say Killers are more viable for gameplay than survivors that is simply not true. Both sides have their hate towards the other side. The "crutch" perks. There is a difference from killers crutch perks and survivors. Survivors can easily find ruin if they know common totem spots, doesnt take too long to find. If you expect NOED, do totems, not difficult. If you consider Pop as a crutch perk then the survivors are just doing that gen fast and the killer has to earn that kick. Survivors on the other hand do not have to earn their crutch perk, just like killers dont have to earn Ruin but have to hope they dont lose it. Survivor get one use of DS which the killer has to eat through it giving them another chance or the killer has to wait 60 seconds. They dont earn it, they mess up and the killer has to pay for it. Adrenaline you do have to earn but if you use adrenaline and the killer has NOED you dont have a right to complain as that is the counter and you get an additional sprint burst with that pretty much that doesnt matter if you are exhausted or not. Both sides are definently viable to play for gameplay, just depends on which side you like more. Just remember both sides have things that are annoying.
I am 100% aware you are not talking about perks but if a killer is tunneling it is either perk related or just punishing survivors for mistakes. Yes, killers have perks where you dont have to tunnel which most good killers know when it is or isnt a good idea to tunnel. If you are a survivor and are on the receiving end of tunneling all you can do is buy your team time. Survivors freak out when they are 1 person down and killers take that to their advantage. They start playing very scared that they will be next. I do not see killers that will only focus one survivor at a time. If you see that I am sorry but that should be a very easy win for survivors if they have decent perks.
Killers cannot abuse tunneling like you are saying, there is a time and a place for it and usually killers do not like to tunnel but they want to win also so if you see tunneling they are most likely just trying to create a possible winning scenario for them.
This was a very lengthy response and you will most likely disagree with it buy here it is.
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Hey, you know how deal with face camping? Do gens. Seriously if the killer is just gonna stand there n watch the survivor go from first hook to dead, get the like 3 gens done in the mean time.
Seriously calm your tits with your altruism.
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Killers don't want Gen rush then come to the forums demanding we Gen rush when they camp and tunnel then cry here gens go to fast. They demand we use DS/BT etc and they can't tunnel then come here and cry about how DS and BT are too strong. The bottom line is most are hypocrites and I watch most of them comment against survivors then cry when survivors do exactly what they say. Survivors want a chance at a fun game the killers in these forums act like survivors want a free pass to escape every time and act like they want survivors on hook starting the game. Survivors aren't demanding free or easy escapes, they're demanding their perks work as they once did and penalties exist so killers will finally make those perks useless instead of crying to devs for nerfs of those perks 😂 😂
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