Hillbilly shouldn't be able to instantly cancel his chainsaw
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You don't say? But aren't Huntress and Plague lower in the multiple tier lists while Billy is always on top? Apparently having a range attack doesn't help them enough... not that I'm implying they NEED buffs of any kind.
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every other killer should be brought up to billy's level
it's also stupid to try and nerf killers in ways that lower their skillcap, you're making the game more boring to everyone
stop trying to make every killer identical for arbitrary reasons, it's sad and pathetic
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I don't understand why you say noise and bumping is as unreal as charisma since we all know sound and time is important. For me it would be perfectly fine if they remove these 2. Also there are ppl who try to make certain builds or combinations which may not be as powerfull as others. If i follow your logic, then we can remove everything that you consider useless if ppl only play the strongest addons. In the end its just mine and your oppinion and we'll have to wait and see what the devs decide to do with billy.
I really like the idea.
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"stop trying to make every killer identical for arbitrary reasons, it's sad and pathetic" How ridiculous of you to imply I would ever do such thing when I actively play Nurse.
Lower the skillcap? If anything that would make him harder to play and would require more skill to be used. Didn't Nurse receive the very same treatment to her ability? The change was harsh but it made better at playing her by trying my best to not do any mistake.
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Second time you ignored my reply addressing your nonsense and twice you pulled the same card of "I have reputation!, Look at me 1500 hours my opinion is better!" Sad.
Again go back to my recent previous reply, I even quoted myself addressing it. Don't play dumb.
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making him harder to play isn't black and white
just because he has less tools to deal with loops would make him harder yes, but in a bad way, (learn what a skillcap is) killers should have tools they can use to interact with survivors beyond just m1 looping, which is part of the reason so many killers are so crappy because they lack these tools, arbitrarily robbing billy of his tools just because hurr other killers don't have this is stupid, stop begging for nerfs over skillful aspects that can be used to mindgame and outplay survivors because you lost to them
billy does not need any nerfs, other killers like leatherface, who is one of the most pathetic killers in the game need significant buffs, so stop using pathetic trash killers to argue that other killers should be as pathetic and trash as they are, it's frankly embarrassing
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The sound of the chainsaw is irrelavent when you can still hear the TR, and since the chainsaw only MAKES a sound when hes actively using it. As far as the bump benifit goes...the goal is to not bump into things to begin with. This is why you dont see perks like unrelenting every refered to as "good". The effect has no actual benifit other than to minimize a screw up. Unlike cooldown addons on Billy, which can not only allow you to recover from a missed saw faster but also just be better at continuing a chase if you use the saw for movement, the bump addons are JUST for the mess up aspect. I can take advantage of the cooldown addons when I use the saw to cut someone off. Im never going to PURPOSEFULLY run into a tree, lol.
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Are you daft? I read your post and answered accordingly. What is that you want? Your way of discussing stuff is so aggressive smh. Have you even tried and read what I was writing to other people?
Your attitude is honestly so outrageous it's insane. What I'm asking for ARE NOT Billy nerfs but just some consistency with the mechanics that were intended for killers. If I do any mistake with the ability of killers I play that are Nurse, Plague, Pig and Hag I get punished for it with survivors gaining distance or lose LoS.
This isn't the case with billy where at loops you can press m2 for a microsecond to bait you're going for the chainsaw and get a hit out of it because of lack of animation on the ability cancel.
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As I pointed out above, you can't compare these abilities with one another and bring them on par like this because they're so different. I think both Huntress and Plague are fine as they are, but so is Billy.
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you are asking for billy nerfs
that's what "consistency with the mechanics" always is, NERFS, killers are supposed to be unique, their mechanics aren't consistent, that's what makes playing different killers fun
this would be a huge nerf to billy's ability to deal with loops and mindgame survivors in a chase, you being outplayed once does't warrant any sort of change, missing this ability is part of what makes leatherface so pathetic and honestly he should be able to cancel it just like billy
it's absolutely not a confirmed hit, a good survivor knows that billy can do it and will read it properly, such as waiting for him to cancel it and start walking forward and drop the pallet on him, perhaps you can learn how to cancel it instead of jumping on the forums and crying NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF
it's sad the way some people think
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Mate this is the third time you didn't address my post at all.
"Only thing who doesn't know how his power works here is you. There's already a skill curve on his Chainsaw imagine being forced to keep holding M2 in Loops if you messed up and you have no choice but to keep holding it because either scenario punishes you with a cooldown unless the Rev is guaranteed which I highly doubt if the Survivor is good. There's also the fact that you're comparing Leatherface to Billy who has to micro manage his Chainsaw bar at the same time or the fact that LF has zero skill involve?
Again he M1'd you and gave you distance then help you saved a Pallet for another day. He also has no choice but to play as any other M1 killer at that point. The only thing at a disadvantage here is Milly.
If you have to bring up the fact that powers is inconsistent is Freddy. When he's a better clown has no distance loss for spamming his power while moving."
Again you're the one whose daft here.
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You don't know me. Don't come here saying stuff like you would to any entitled survivor main, why are you being so passive aggressive when I have said multiple times that this is NOT a nerf request but an adjustement that needs to be done?
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you say it's not a nerf when it would 100% nerf the character, stop being obtuse, you know EXACTLY what you're asking for.
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Only because I didn't quote you? Do I seriously have to quote you to answer when I have to answer to multiple people? What the hell.
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Judging by the changes the devs have in store with Doc and removing his need to shift stances to shock ppl, I think the devs are actually planning on adding MORE power feigning in the game rather than doing someone like giving billy a cooldown when he feathers his saw. Currently with Doc, the only reason him canceling his shock and hitting you isnt more of a thing is because of the stance change. With the changes the devs have discusses...you'll be seeing alot more this power feigning from Doc, just like Demo already does as well as Billy is doing.
The big difference between Billy being allowed to do this and Huntress or Plague is Huntress and Plague would be able to hit you if you throw the pallet, while Billy cant. The downside behind throwing a pallet at the wrong time against Billy or Demo vs doing so against a Plague or Huntress is pretty big.
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Wasn't Spirit the very same thing? She didn't have a vault animation and that needed to be done for consistency because of, guess what, lack of counterplay. Immediatly canceling an animation IS not good game design.
I'm just gonna make an example: Imagine that you're playing Huntress, I'm vaulting a window while you're charging an hatchet and WHOOPS. I immediatly cancel the animation because it was just starting and you miss your hatchet, now I get to vault easily because of that and there's nothing you can do about it. Answer me this: Is this wrong or "fun mechanic"?
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huntress and hillbilly are absolutely not comparable in these circumstances, nor was the spirit change to vaulting, the vault change was not made to make her consistent, it was made to nerf her, so i'm glad you're admitting you just want hillbilly nerfed
in the case of hillbilly being able to feather the saw, it is a fun mechanic, it allows for skillful counterplay from both sides and makes one dimensional loops more dangerous and thus more fun to play, survivors being able to cancel window vaults would make zero sense and it isn't comparable in the slightest
stop. begging. for. nerfs. just. because. you. died. to. it. once.
learn the counterplay, because it absolutely is there, you're just too stubborn to learn it.
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I see your point. I do still think however that the animation cancel is a flaw that must be dealt with, most games take an immediate stance on this type of stuff.
@yeet @Tisfine Maybe you can learn from this guy on how to explain yourself. We could have been discussing like this from the very beginning.
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If you get baited by that all the time then you should really get to know Hillbilly more. That shouldn't get you every single time, it's very easy to tell when they're going to do this.
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it isn't a flaw, it's an integral part of what makes the killer have an in depth skill cap
most games keep animation cancels, they're considered skillful imputs by the user to outplay their opponent
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The only issue is I dont know how youd add an animation to something so instant beyond what he already has. If you do something along the lines of having him hold his saw higher based off how much charge it has, it would SIGNIFICANTLY hurt him in other areas such as when survivors jump into lockers to avoid the saw. If they could see your at 99%, theyd stay in the locker until they could see your at 20%, whereas now...both players have to guess.
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I would agree if it were like Leatherface, where you can instantly cancel the charge. As is, though, he has to wait for the charge bar to slowly empty before he can attack. It serves basically the same purpose, so having an additional grace period afterwards would be overkill.
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What games are we talking about tho? I come from a community built on a fighting game where whenever you make a decision your opponent has to guess while having the tool do it. I'll explain it further:
Am I going to do a low? If you crouch, you block the low and punish me accordingly. If you don't, you get hit.
Now, the animations are there and are difficult to react to but they're still very clear. Imagine now that the low attack can instantly be canceled into a mid attack without any clear sign of it... that'd be incredibly frustrating, no?
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If it as you say, then I'm just gonna guess the instant animation cancels are caused by a defect of the dedicated servers? Because if it is, then this would change everything.
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the thing is, you don't have to guess against a billy, since you are on the other side of the pallet you can drop it on him every time instead of getting greedy for another loop
stop being greedy and the problem solves itself
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Fighting games in particular use animation canceling ALOT, lol.Heres an example for street fighter.
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I never stated that I was being greedy to begin with. I know the importance of blocking Billy whenever possible and I'll keep using pallets early to avoid the situation further. I still stand by my point that it's not good enough reason to have it impossible to see.
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I'll admit I don't know anything about SF, I play SCVI where animation cancel is very limited or even non-existent. Once you go with something it's all or nothing.
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Im pretty sure SF2 pioneered animation canceling. It started off as a sort of glitch that caught traction, so they decided to keep it. Many fighting games have adopted it, but its best known in SF. Thats why I kinda chuckled when you brought up fighting games NOT using it.
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Billy is fast and less noise means less reaction time for the survivor. Im pretty sure you had enough moments chainsawing ppl on a gnerator or next to it because they began to run to late. I don't say that you run into a tree on purpose but if it happens accidentally you get the benefit from tuning guide and you can get faster back into the chase. Btw the spirits Yakuyoke Amulet was also improving overall stats and isn't anymore and that addon is purple. So yeah we will see what the devs decide.
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My bad. Should have specified from the start.
The "animation cancel glitch" you mentioned in SC2 is actually not a glitch but part of the game entirely. I'm pretty sure you're talking about a specific character that goes by the name Xianghua who can cancel attacks, this cancels however are not animation cancels but stance transistions.
EDIT: My bad! I read "SC2" instead of "SF2"
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Billy on top?
He is LITERALLY countered by looping, and Huntress and plague are not low tier
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Not kidding, Billy is always on top. Look at any kind of tier list of DBD and you'll always see him in top 5 at least... if not top 3.
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Billy imo is B tier, people always over think him as being some really strong killer when in reality is strong, but overrated, Billy may be able to go fast around the map but his chainsaw isn't going to be useful 24/7, with DBD's RNG, Billy is very map reliant and if he gets an indoor map he loses all of his map pressure almost as he almost turns into an M1 killer, lery's is a good example of this. He would be A tier if his power wouldn't get crushed on indoor maps, but he is B tier as he is good at starting chases. Most people that think he is in the top 3 haven't really learned that his power is crushed on loops
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He can't instantly cancel it; he has to wait for the bar to go down.
At worst, perhaps he could do with a slope in the volume/density of the chainsaw sound so we can predict; at best, it's fine because it allows for more fakes and mindgames.
Only thing I think needs changing is instasaw/curve add-ons tbh.
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I'll leave tier lists creation to the others. Some people think Billy is op, some don't. I'm just gonna say he's much more than just "viable".
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Kinda interested to see what the devs have in mind with Billys addons. Hes one of the few killers that still need UR addons put in. I doubt they'll really screw with tuning guide in any real way though.
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You don't mind if I add onto this?
CoD has a tactic for canceling a reload animation extremely fast by double pressing the weapon swap, this can also be used on some guns to reload even quicker, you can fire quickly after the swap ends
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Overwatch has similar reload canceling if you melee. The bullets get registered that theyve been reloaded before the animation itself finishes, which makes this possible.
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In BO4 zombies, the winter howl has a bug actually that the reload animation can be cut in half and get a full mag
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Actually theres a faster way. If you have it so when you run out cancels reloading all you gotta do is run and the rest of tbe animation is gone. Faster than the Y Y strat.
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I... suppose this is now a thread on FPS games animation canceling? :'D
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Billy cant cancel his chainsaw, he has to charge it, and if he doesnt want to use it, has to wait for the same amount of time he charged
so yeah he can cancel instantly if he didnt charge at all
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Best thread of 2020.
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I genuinely hope this wasn't written to make fun of me. :| I only tried to prove a point...
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Healthy survivor jumping in a locker as soon as Billy revs his chainsaw. Then jumps out and start running when he stops it and has cooldown. Yeah nothing wrong with that
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You know it. What's Dbd?
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...That doesn't work. You don't know how much Billy will be charging his chainsaw for and you'll probably get grabbed if you don't have head-on.
A game that deserves to be better.
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Some games won't allow you to run while reloading sometimes and even have run reloading, so I rely on this
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Doesn't matter how long he's charging and you are not gonna get grabbed if you fast vault out of the locker it if he has a cooldown after he stops.
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