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I've never seen this much outrage...
Out of any changes, even nurse this is the worst. Devs, I would take this to heart.
Comments
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I'd say exhaustion nerf was probably similar, outrage-wise.
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We don't need a PTB we don't like the ruin nerf.
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Because killers have been getting nerf after nerf after nerf after nerf.
What's completely pissing people off is the bias that the devs have shown on the survivor side. Everything was about their experience, NOT the killers. Except the emblem thing, but nobody honestly gives a damn about the emblem system.
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Dev's should pay attention. They're about to kill this game. Hour long survivor queues are going to be incoming.
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It's just compounding I think. Obviously survivors buy more cosmetics so get catered to. It's just starting to get old really.
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Err, I've seen lots of people complain about how it takes a 4k to black pip at red ranks. Fixing the gate keeper emblem is a step towards addressing that complaint, no?
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I hear that since 2016 and people still keep playing it.
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I still think the worst change they ever made was removing the timing requirements for pallet and flashlight saves.
But yeah, this one is bad too.
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They won't get better, they'll quit the game and survivor queues will become even longer.
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The main reason was the post explaining the changes and the "reasons" why for the changes was a flat out comedy. Much of the problems would be solved if they would fix map design and add a really good tutorial for each killer explaining their strength and weakness.
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I mean, just look at how the Dev Update was worded.
There is absolutely no way anyone can claim there is no bias here, I don't know how many filters that post had to go through before being posted but did nobody stop and say "hey, doesn't this sounds like it's focusing purely on the survivor experience?"
And what the new Ruin does is quite cool, but not on a hex perk. There is rarely a game when a hex perk makes it to end game (unless they activate on end game like NOED), and if they do the reward is usually insurmountable (5 stack Devour for example).
What does it matter if the new Ruin gets to endgame when endgame will arrive 5 minutes into the game, with all 4 survivors alive? The perk ONLY works on gens not being worked on, the killer has to chase 1 of the 4 survivors and the other 3 are free to work on any of the 3 gens without a single penalty.
The only build this perk will be mildly decent on is a 3 gen endgame build, which is far and wide considered the most unfun thing to go against anyway.
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It's mainly because the problem Ruin took care of will remain after its nerf, leaving the core problem of gen-speed to fester.
Last night I saw Umbra traverse a map and by the time she reached the survivors on a gen at the opposite side, they finished it.
That's a problem because there was literally nothing she could do about it.
This change wouldn't have been received so poorly if that problem was addressed at the same time.
I've never used Ruin because I hate the RNG of hexes so it's not a huge deal to me, but the devs are extremely out of touch with their playerbase and all these changes put it blatantly on display along with their bias against the Killer role.
The mods have been saying wait for the PTB and provide feedback...
Let's see what they do with it.
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Then destroying ruin immediately "unfixes" that issue. Fairly hard to have a match where you will pip when gens are being blown through.
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PTB will be very interesting tomorrow.
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If this absolute nerf to ruin even so much as goes onto the PTB tomorrow, I'm uninstalling. This patch note is an INSULT to half of the playerbase. I DON'T LIKE RUIN DEVS, I DON'T GIVE A ######### ABOUT YOUR ######### EMBLEM SCORES, I JUST WANT TO HAVE TIME TO PLAY THE GAME AT HIGH RANKS, STOP PUNISHING KILLERS JUST FOR PICKING THE WRONG LOBBY!
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I think Exhaustion, Freddy release and DS changes were the most outrage I've seen. Surprisingly not as much complaining with the insta-heals as I expected. With these changes though I think it's the second worst series of post but imo for good reason. The reasoning for Doc changes only had survivor in mind with how it's worded and is quite disrespectful. Not even a fake "We made this change for a quality of life reason for killers"
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We expected outrage when doing a fundamental change to a perk used in such a large percentage of games. However, after playing with the new version, we're much happier with how it functions in the game as part of the whole system.
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Except you all ignore the very reason why Ruin is needed in the first place, instead falling back to 'gatekeeper emblem' and 'new player experience' as valid justification.
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I guess as long as you guys are happy that's all that matters, right? I mean, you understand how the game is played at high levels and choose to ignore it, so at this point, I don't think we're surprised. I think you can understand why a large portion of the community, some of which have a ridiculous amount of hours, would be against a change like this before anything meaningful is done to address game length.
This is coming from a man that doesn't even use ruin anymore (and hasn't for some time). Take from it what you will, if anything.
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Not to be offensive here, Almo. But if you expected outrage for this perk to be changed, why change it?
Or better yet, why didn't you ask yourself why it was in such a large percentage of games rather than make a change that you think is better? Obviously despite how well intentioned you guys are, there has been some obvious misses in the past and the community knows it and remembers it.
Now, I don't use Ruin. I think it's a horrible perk. But clearly a lot of people do for a pretty good reason as well. Rather than just drop a bombshell like this so suddenly, why not just gradually introduce the idea and let the players help make the change?
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Well we are glad you like your changes, the question remains just how many Killers will you have once you ram it down our throats and tell us to smile.
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Personally I don't care about my emblems I'm still going to have a bad time if I'm playing an M1 killer that can't traverse the map by the time a gen pops.
Like emblems to me mean nothing when reaching Rank 1 doesn't even do anything so why should I care about rank?
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do you guys have any plans on looking at why so many killers run ruin?
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you did the right thing. i play survivor and killer
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So... Devs want it, devs change it? Because cleary no one is happy besides y'all and survivors from rank 20.
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But do you play Killer in Red Ranks, because I bet you'd have a different spin on it then.
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i have been in red ranks before the resest
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So you will continue making maps the size of Nebraska and making sure killers have no chance at gen pressure to better the survivor's chances at being successful? Unless you are Billy, Nurse, or a really lucky Oni, this will only feed this problem further. Yep, just "pressure gens."
Ruin is a craptastic perk. I feel like I HAVE to run it. I want to make better builds, but in some games I feel that if I don't have that line of defense, the game will be over before it even begins. How is this fun for US, the KILLERS? Sure it's great and grand for survivors, but we have to exist too.
Why did we use ruin so much? Did you think about it? Did you research it? Did you ask some of the more prevalent players and streamers that tout your game and give you advertisement about it?
i'm sorry if I sound pissed, but it's the pure fact I am. I am unhappy about the change, yes, but it's only a symptom of a MUCH larger problem.
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I don’t use ruin because I don’t like relying on a single perk to win verse lose, so please keep that in mind when I say I’m very not happy with the changes. I feel as though a Hex perk designed to be a lategame perk is fundamentally flawed. I enjoy running Devour Hope. DH is a midgame perk, as it activates its first noticeable effect after 3 hooks. And it gets destroyed before any noticeable effect in at least half the games I use it, if not more. Ruin will still have an immediately noticeable effect (sparking gen as soon as a surv lets go) and it’s expected to dominate the lategame? I’m just not seeing it.
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I hope you guys are going to be watching the metrics like a hawk when this hits open air. I'm willing to bet that the average length of games at any rank higher than green will tank hard. I agree that Ruin needed to get the axe but it was propping up something that was broken without it. People keep calling it a crutch. It's not a crutch: It's more like a structural beam that now needs to be addressed directly. What I really hope is that your intent was to fix the problem that caused so many people to take Ruin: Games can be far, far too short.
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The biggest reason there is so much outrage is how obviously survivor biased this update is. You can even see the insane bias in how the blog is worded. One of the BENEFITS listed for the new Ruin is that killers need to work harder. I had to do a double take when i read that. Devs, you cant except people to read that and go "No bias on that one :^)"
If there was something to address the reason why its used then there wouldve been less outrage but in addition to the Doc rework it just feels like an obvious "screw you killer, we are making it easier for survivors"
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Well as long as your happy. Never mind the people that keep spending their money on this product an what they want. Tho it wouldn't have been a problem if you would have spent some of that money on fixing the reason it's used so much in the first place, but that would have been to logical.
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The reason for the outrage isn't the nerf itself. The fact that you don't acknowledge that makes us feel like you're deafened to our opinions.
It's about the fact that you saw something that has been used on a large scale...and instead of asking WHY that is the case...WHY it's being used so heavily....and trying to remedy WHY...you just nerf it into obscurity. That's not how balance works. Then again - at this point, expecting BHVR to know about balance is like expecting an apple to taste like a peach. After all, your history with balance is atrocious. But hey, I guess we should just all go play Civilization.
I don't mean that as disrespect. I'm just telling it like it is. At this point, your studio has made itself into a living meme with a barrage of terrible decisions, and buggy updates over the last 3+ years. People would be more inclined to take you guys at your word more if you proved that you listen equally to both sides.
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Very true mostly why I'm mad feels non stop with the nerfs...an sounds have been bugged for killers for over a month
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Time for killers to get better at the game? Lol what ? There literally removing the hex SKILL checks for survivors keyword skill so you don't even need to worry about hitting them anymore.. but yea sure killers need to get better the logic on this guy
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I think the Doctor nerf was just absolutely hilarious. One of the worst killers this game has to offer, and he gets a nerf because of his "frustrating gameplay to survivors." I was listening to people yapping about it on youtube when driving home from work, and I about died from laughter during my trip home.
It is so baffling and bias it's unbelievable.
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they removed the "what" instead of addressing the "why"
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Did you expect outrage with how the wording was put in the notes, making it sound Survivor biased?
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Not just sounds. Almost every killer has major bugs, and they don't get dealt with, but nerfs for killers can be programed in at Mach 5.
Wraith still gets flashlight burned into his cloaked form instead of uncloaked, so you can be chain burned until their flashlights run out.
Billy still gets Ghost saws.
Hag randomly does 360s like she thinks she is a survivor.
Doctor's shocks are completely inconsistent on when they stop survivors from vaulting/dropping pallets.
Huntress Hitboxes 2020.
Plague can vomit on survivors who do the physical reaction and the coughing, then don't get sickened.
Ghostface can be broken out of stealth around corners and through some walls.
Not to mention just last game, I got stuck in 3 different grab animations as Wraith where I managed to pull someone off a gen, but they walked off while I was stuck in the animation, not only denying the grab, but also not even giving a hit.
And those are just the BUGS. Not the nerfs. Not the things done intentionally to make them weaker. These are the things that aren't supposed to happen. Some of these are absolutely gamebreaking for the killer, but killers are second class, so they don't get fixed.
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I have. The healing changes last year. The DS changes too. It is just different because it is killers this time. Seriously, wait to see how it functions.
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Your arrogance is going to be the death of this game. I know you're gambling that killers are still going to play, but I don't see it happening. Unless something gets done about the broken maps and gen times, no killer is going to want to play. Can you rebuild your killer base from scratch?
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So we really aren’t going to address or even comment on gen speed at ALL? We really aren’t going to look into why ruin had an 80% (80!) pick rate? Honestly this has to be one of the most incompetent, biased development teams I have ever seen in a video game.
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Imagine having tons of informed players telling you why this is a poor change -AT THIS TIME- and still thinking you know better. That level of arrogance, ignorance, or whatever we're calling it at this point isn't just astounding, it's a superpower.
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Good, cause killers are broken and deserve the nerfs. Every other game killer gets 4 kills, sometimes ends games in 3-5 min. Killers have so many advantages over survivors. Faster MS, blink abilities, gap closers, instant downs. Mori, busted addons that almost guarantee a win. No survivor addon guarantees you a win. Maybe a key is the strongest thing survivors have and you still have to fix 4 gens to even be able to use it.
Tons of passive perks that are extremely strong and "fire and forget" design. Meaning you just slap it on, and get massive use out of them, referring to lot of the Hex perks. That's why Hex: Ruin is getting nerfed.
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The only thing that is proven once again:
The DBD Community is the best in crying without testing. Neither of the persons who complain tested the new Ruin and neither of them tested to play with other Perks instead of Ruin.
Quite a shame that the DBD Community is such a whiny mess.
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Exactly.
I think the Ruin change is not needed at all, but what happens here at the forums right now is a little too much crying imo. Especially when I read that players want to punish other players with most toxic playstyles for the decision the Devs made. What the hell...?
I'm gonna stop playing for a week or so until they all calmed down a bit or used up their ebony moris. Don't want to deal with these outraged people atm.
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I mean, I also have no problem with current Ruin. I guess I will profit, because I cannot sit on a Gen with a Potato anymore who cannot hit Skill Checks (I hit them 9/10, so Ruin did not matter that much for me, but I also have 3K hrs, so I should be able to hit Ruin Skill Checks, lol). But I would not have asked for a change (more like that Hex Totems should be more hidden, but this is nothing that only I would like to have).
But I highly dislike the amount of Threads that is coming up with all this negativity. Most likely because 90% of those players will still continue playing the game and continue playing Killer.
And coming up with toxic playstyles.. Why punishing Survivors for a change they did not ask for? No reason to punish people with Moris, who might not even know that the Forum exist or never interacted with any Social Media Presence of BHVR. And those will most likely be the vast majority of players.
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Well... I don't really see a point in buying a skin for a first person killer i won't even see the whole game (if not using a mori). So, yeah...
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They changed Ruin because everyone is a god that can pressure 7 gens at once right
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