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Just a comment about the motivation behind the Ruin update
Comments
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This doesn't fix the core issue of the game. You might as well not even run new Ruin at R1, because while one survivor loops the killer, the other 3 can still pound gens out in no time.
In fact, survivors'll do it easier because they (including myself) can hit just about every great skillcheck. Old Ruin at least GUARANTEED they had to spend 80 seconds per gen.
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1 week because they will write "OH BOY, RECENTLY POP PICKED TOO OFTEN ON HIGH RANK, AROUND 80%. OH BOY, NERF NERF NERF!!!"
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Sadly, that's the ass-backwards logic of BHVR these days, it seems.
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Oh wait, I can use it. But I need to get in time to a gen that is beeing worked on and if they stop repairing it should've the PGTW effect on it, right?
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As soon as it stops being worked it, ruin starts regressing it again. Theres no time that youd be able to kick the gen with Ruin active.
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I know, but a lot of people are acting like the game is unplayable when it's still playable, you just have to play with more caution. 😁
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But do I need to kick it? Bcs PGTW synergizes with surge too. So it SHOULD work, right?
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Watch TrU3Ta1ent video about those nerfs.
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Weasel does not work with Surge.
You have to kick the gen for Weasel to work.
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Your missing the point... If ruin is up, you physically CANT kick a gen. No Pop, no Overcharge and the only time surge would work is if you down someone near a gen CURRENTLY being worked on. If the survivor let go of the button right before you downed someone...surge wont work either.
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When a dev says "we're making it less frustrating for new players" they really mean "we're making new survivors lives much easier and in turn making killers jobs much much harder"
Unless they make Ruin a non-hex perk with this change, it's going to be awful.
What's unfortunate here is that even after the PTB and whatever surveys they do, they won't revert this change and may end up losing some percent of the player base.
Dead By Daylight is not a game that starts out easy and grows in difficulty with playtime or rank increase. It starts out difficult and will stay that way until you've played 500+ hours and understand things. I have 600+ hours on DBD and I still have trouble facing certain killers and using certain killers. Survivors should not be babied.
Unless they want to change how ranks work or implement a casual mode, they should not baby survivors or "reduce frustration" for them. I get frustrated against killers that are better than me, but I don't blame that on the character. I blame that on the skilled player im facing.
I hope the devs reconsider this change and listen to the feedback of the majority. Even if they have to listen to killers for once.
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The problem I have is that if feels like the devs didn't consider enough as to why killers rely on Ruin so much in the high ranks, and just blindsided all of us with this upcoming change. Here's the real reason why:
At high/red ranks, even a team of solo survivors are better at coordinating their attack on objectives, have all of the tools, skills and knowledge of maps to be more optimal at looping/routing while completing said objectives, and can easily get 2-3 generators done in the first 100 seconds of a match before the first survivor even gets hooked.
Old Ruin slowed that down, gave survivors an alternative objective/distraction in order to get the gen speed back to normal, and provided killers enough time to build up some momentum without losing too many gens. It was always a High Risk High reward perk; the risk being that it can be destroyed by survivors, the reward being that it bought the killers precious time in the beginning of the match to get things rolling. It isn't so much that killers actually "WANTED" to use Ruin at those ranks, It's that they felt they "HAD TO" in order to compete.
The only killers that didn't have this problem are the High mobility killers, because they can apply enough pressure on survivors in that first 100 seconds of the game.
Paradoxically In one decision, the devs just alienated "more than 80%" of the red rank killers, and 45% of the rest. Sure they did so for the sake of new/low ranked players, which I can understand and forgive, but when the average lifespan of of a Ruin totem is only 2 minutes (at best) regardless of rank, and it was the most valuable tool for "more than 80%" of killers to be able to compete in the red ranks... Is it any wonder as to why there has been such a huge backlash over this change from the community?
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There is no execuse for this Hex:Ruin change. Hex:Ruin helps balance the game time at red ranks. If anything, this perk should be a permanent effect for survivor/killers playing in red ranks(Rank 1 level). Landing great skillcheck isn't hard and it is basic skill in DBD. This "New player" joke is excuse. If you want to protect new players from the perk, than just disable the perk from green-rank to grey rank(rank 10-20). The biggest problem in DBD for killer at the moment is how the killers ability to apply map pressure(Earn hits/end chases quickly) has little influence for how fast the survivor can escape the trial through brute force. The crazy difference between Survivor and Killer perks is how most of the survivor perks are luxaries where as Killer perks are practically necessity. The perks that reward injuring or hooking survivors have complete trash numbers and over-time regression perks like Surge,PTGW and New Hex:ruin only help the killer when they already winning. If your passively able to regress generator as killer, than you've already won the match. why would anyone bother equipping perks when you've already won. This perk change just comes at really bad time and makes matters worse than they already are. Sadly speaking, I'm still going to use Ruin, but the game will go faster and it will suck for killer. This whole PTB will be one crazy failed experiment in the end that will be witnessed soon. Survivors are going to have fun being slugged on the floor I guess.
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In a short test?
Change?
Search the forum.
Have a long talk
Ignore again ...
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But if you cleanse it, it's gone so what's the problem? As repeated the reason people are reacting the way they are cause you guys aren't listening to them and to why people use ruin in the first place. People have been complaining for the past months about game changes from previous patches to this and it's continually getting ignored or feel that they are being ignored.
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Survivors after ruin nerf in queue.
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And then finally found lobby killer dodge because you an SWF.
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For new player, sure. I'm cool with that.
BUT YOU STILL IGNORE THE FACT THAT MORE HIGH RANK SURVIVORS ARE NOW EASIER TO GEN RUSH and MORE KILLER WILL PLAY CAMPING/TUNNEL
"make it less frustrating for new players" my ass, what about frustration of killer and survivor with no friend!?!?!?!?
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What!?
You need to damage the gen first to use the perk?
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Ruin automatically damage generators that aren't being worked on. :P
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Playing solo survivor can be miserable, but not because of skill checks or Ruin. It can be miserable because of teammates and tunneling/camping. Ruin was a non-issue. Even if I'm having a bad day and having a lot of trouble hitting great skill checks, I can still power through Ruin. I can still zen out while working on gens, considering it's an utterly mindless task. Hell, half the time I don't even bother with gens anymore because it is such a boring objective; I'd rather run around the map and have fun screwing around. Sure, I (and probably my teammates) die, but escaping isn't even necessary to pip, so what does it matter?
Meanwhile, playing killer is only mindless if the killer is memeing. If the killer is playing for real, it's a race against time, constantly frustrating and stressful. There's no moment to sit back, relax, and zen out while playing killer. Ruin was used to help relieve some of that pressure. New Ruin does not provide that same level of help, especially not to low mobility killers, the ones who really need it.
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Go watch the videos in their entirety from ScottJund, Ardetha, and Tru3ta1ent. All 3 care about this game, especially Tru3, and their videos each day the same basic message: “There’s a reason it’s in %80 of Red rank matches.”
Nobody in their right mind thinks you’re doing this to make it easy. You guys made it clear, it’s to stop Frustration. Specifically, Survivor Frustration.
In regards to your little mock up story about “imagine the rank 20 freaking out about the TR, and wondering why the gen regressed.” Yeah okay cool, in the 12 seconds the killer is by them it’ll regress... 3-6 charges. (Sarcasm incoming) Gasp “Oh no, whatever will I do? I have to work on this generator for an extra 6 seconds“
Even in theory, they don’t know what’s happening, oh well, it’ll hardly affect them. And if they run away, they’ll think he kicked it. Eventually they’ll learn. Which, Ironically, is what Survivors do/did with current Ruin. They learn to hit Greats, or how to find Totems like a God.
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Little poor creatures new survivors. Tears are streaming down my face. You are building game around new survivors and ruin game for the rest of killer players. These precious survivors you are now protecting by nerfs will become teabegging toxic garbage coz you are teaching them that game is easy vs killers from the beginning and total disrespect against killers. Great job.
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This content has been removed.
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Correct
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Balancing a game around new players is never a good idea. Please have a meeting with whoever handles game balance and show them the wonders that is trickle-down balance, the objectively best way to balance any game. Uncle Dane, a TF2 Youtuber, explains it in this video really well and in a way that applies to most if not all video games.
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I think you misunderstand. The problem with new ruin is not that it doesnt work on skillchecks, but that it doesnt work at all. I you are worried about skillchecks, make it flat debuff like thanatophobia, if you are worried about new surviviors then, Idk, increase skillchevks at low ranks, or just make matchmaking work.
New ruin is bad because its useless for killers that need to set up traos early game, like Trapoer and Hag, the ones that benefitted from the old ruin the most. Now it gives you no help early game. Please dont forget that this is HAGs perk, so it should work best on HAG and killers similiar to her.
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I doesnt help that the patch notes sound like they have been written by a survivor main, you could have done much better there and just read the patch notes before you released them.
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But surge would make gens go at normal regression speed, ruin regresses the double speed passively without breaking it.
Using surge would make ruin useless
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yes but you did nothing to address gen speed, the reason behind that 80% usage and the outrage. Do you guys care about high rank killer? Like at all?
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It doesn't really matter what the intentions are, but the results seem to show to players that: ''We won't take care of the core issues of the game, but we will make it easier for the larger core base of players so we can make new cosmetics for the money...'' because that is what it looks like.
It screams of: We won't treat the sickness, but we will treat the symptoms.
It won't help the game's life span later...
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I am going to mirror what many people have said here, and most likely this will get lost in the sea of comments....
When I first read the dev update I was insulted.. not because I use ruin at all, because I don't....but because of the blatant disregard for experienced survivors, and total disregard for all killers- and their experience and fun playing this game.
The entire post is pandering to newer survivors. Not once was there any mention of how "unfun" and clunky DR feels to play AS, or any recognition that ruin is a necessary evil for higher ranks. It's even stated ruin is being nerfed in the update....and go on to explain the emblem system needs to be changed to compensate for this nerf. Huh? No one gives a flying ######### about emblems. Killers don't run ruin because of their desire to get a dumb emblem.. they get it because the game goes too fast. Something that the people at BHVR refuse to even look at without vomiting a perk out to try to fix it.
The update and your own post just seem so out of touch with the rest of the community. Usually when major nerfs like balanced landing occur... there is outrage... but many people from both sides actually do state that they agree with the changes even if it's painful..... Honestly I don't see anyone really agreeing these changes (without changing the reason WHY ruin is run) except the same people who you invite to your studio quarterly. That says alot.
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I swear the games with ruin up were the most enjoyable ones as killer for me and also the longest. In the games with ruin up the whole time I could play fair and had the chance to go for 12 hooks with mid and low tier killers. The games where ruin is gone instant or where I played without it were just sweaty. I dont rely on ruin, I just enjoyed the games with it more.
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I was a "new survivor" one day and I hated Ruin. Then I learned how to play the game without choosing nerfs.
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Why do you think ruin was meta? Address that.
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Ruin shouldn't be any problem for new survivors, at all, because they should almost never see it.
Hardly anyone plays hag at rank 20, and rank 20s haven't unlocked teachables yet. What? Rank 20 survivors are getting matched with rank 1 killers?
Oh. I wonder what the real problem is for new players. (Better make it so you can't see other players' ranks post game, that'll solve the problem huh?)
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Yeah remove ranking so they won't see how unfair their match truly was!
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Exactly
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Or they could just learn how to do a skill check like everyone else has the gen speeds are super quick at red ranks ruin was pretty much the only thing that helped with that besides PGTW but even then you have to know what gen they’re working on and have to hook someone first.
You say its frustrating what about keys they’re frustrating to go against what about DS that’s frustrating too when survivors abuse it when you aren’t tunneling them ? Gens going to fast then getting teabagged at the gates that’s frustrating too or what about the god loops and huge maps like iron works or Crotus prenn, Cornfield or Wrecked shop that’s frustrating to play on too when are they gonna be dealt with.
Even the broken matchmaking that you decided to sweep under the rug by removing the ability to see what ranks people are so people stop complaining about it, your idea of frustration is very strange.
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Hex:Ruin is used in more than 80% of Red Rank games and 45% of all games. Can I get an accurate time that Ruin stays active in these games. You can round up if you can't give me an accurate number.
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Unexpected change, but welcomed. For me.
Developer comments are correct, and the change to Ruin was predictable. For me it was not a priority, but it was a problem.
Despite the ritual cries, this new effect is also interesting, and is surely easier to balance.
If the totem of the Ruin is destroyed very quickly today, it is precisely because it is unbearable and it has become the priority objective for many. Personally, the almost systematic presence of Ruin justified playing with Small Game. Particularly with the new maps...
Now, we can bet that Ruin will generally last longer but will become an important mid-game objective.
However, I have some concerns.
It will be even faster for survivors to determine if Ruin is in play, since there will be no need to wait for a skillcheck. We repair a generator for a second, and we look. This inevitable habit can prompt you to get rid of the Ruin as soon as possible. While the goal for developers, I believe, would be to make it a mid-game goal.
It may be time to consider some sort of temporary immunity for Hex totems, resolving other concerns about them as well. Whether they are active but not inflamed for a period of time, or before a condition, may be a solution. Survivors will have to destroy the totems blindly and may lose time, or may prefer to suffer the effect of the totem until it ignites.
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With the Gatekeeper changes, why would I need to run Ruin anymore? I mean, thats why 80% of killers run it, right?
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But what about us killers that only get nerfed???
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i doubt you will see us in the fog for long ;)
You have an idea of how fast we complete gens without the skill check break at red ranks?
gens will be rushed before this new joke of a ruin will even be noticed.
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"It's not even noticable that the gen is regressing twice as fast as if the Killer had damaged it."
Sounds great. It will help for sure in higher ranks if it goes down as slow as nothing. IF the totem doesn't get cleansed... WOW. Pretty good job so far
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His comment only proves how clueless and separeted from reality the devs are. They have absolutely NO idea what they are doing and how their game works.
Nobody will even bother cleansing ruin because the new ruin is pure trash. A waste of perk slot. Not to mention, it conflicts with other perks like Pop goes the Weasel or Overcharge. You can't use those perks because the generators are already regresing.
"What we wanted to do was not "make it easy for new players"- but that is exactly what you did. Again, you have no idea what you are doing and ignore the consequences.
And by saying "make it less frustrating for new players" you prove that you are incompetent and don't know how any multiplayer game works. When you are a newbie, in any game, you will struggle at the beginning because you only started to learn how to play the game.
It's obvious that they just care for newbie survivors (the majority) who always get what they want if they yell loud enough. They are just afraid of being review-bombed by angry survivors who are unable to comprehend that all you have to do is find the totem (usually takes 1-2 minutes because of laughable totem placement) and destroy it.
Go ahead, nerf killers and their perks and soon survivors will cry because they have to wait 15-20 min to find a game. And when they do, developers will add killer Bots and finally the game will be perfectly balanced for survivors, gg behaviour, keep it up.
Seriously.... Last Year is way better then this scooby-doo bullshit.
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If BHVR worry about new players miss skill check. Just buff "This is not happen" to be active without injuring. It will be the best perk for new players to practice skill check.
Survivals should pay at least 1 slot to counter Hex:Ruin such as small game, Detective's Hunch, (+new "This is not happen")
Killer have 4 perks, and Survival have 16 perks. It is really worth that only one survival's perk can destroy one killer perk.
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All I hear is "new player's this new player's that" When are y'all gonna address your veteran player's? Veteran player's have helped the game grow, and if veteran player's quit, new players will quit with them, or they'll quit because they have no one to show them the ropes and long queue times.
Secondly, it' seems that killer's are no longer part of y'all concern. Killer's are player's too and since y'all are nerfing Ruin without looking into why it's being used so much, y'all are better off making AI killer's since we seem invisible to y'all
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Almo: "In playtests with newer Survivor players, it was 4k with 4 or 5 gens up almost every time"
Everyone else: "yOu mAde iT eAsiEr foR sUrvIvoRs"
As much as I'd like to see the statistics @Almo . I feel this statement is true anyway. The only people having any standing issue, all while making assumptions that the devs will not fix the sound bugs, or address the core problems of the game, are the same people who just completely ignored that new players are NOT having an "easier" time just because the red skill checks are gone.
High rank complaints at its finest. We should admit the problems we face at high ranks are only at high ranks.
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That's why the specifically said FOR THE NEWER PLAYERS -_- *
Just find a replacement,I did,pop
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