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Statistics on Gameplay Balance

I recorded the results of 38 different Dead By Daylight matches from five days of gameplay because I wanted to know how the survivors fare against the killers. These stats do not include games in which players disconnected, gave up, fooled around, or lagged. I excluded those and only included games in which all members from both teams were fully participating and trying to win.

Games: 38 
Times I survived: 16 
Total survivors: 54/152 
0/4 survivors lived: 16 
1/4 survivors lived: 4 
2/4 survivors lived: 6 
3/4 survivors lived: 10 
4/4 survivors lived: 2 
Median survivors per game: 1/4 
Mode survivors per game: 0/4

In almost every game, all four survivors will die. The killers in this game are much more powerful than they should be. It isn't fun to play a game knowing that you're almost always going to lose or almost always going to win. I've also tried being the killer, and though I didn't record stats on that, I killed every survivor about 80% of the time.

Comments

  • yeet
    yeet Member Posts: 1,832
    might i inquire at what rank you tested this? Because low rank data is meaningless, killer is incredibly weak against players with even a tiny bit of sense.
  • michaelrandom27
    michaelrandom27 Member Posts: 100
    I was rank 30. My character was level 50.
  • Judgement
    Judgement Member Posts: 955
    I was rank 30. My character was level 50.
    He means your Survivor or Killer rank, not your character levels.
  • michaelrandom27
    michaelrandom27 Member Posts: 100
    My survivor rank is 18. Sorry I misunderstood.
  • jiyeonlee
    jiyeonlee Member Posts: 211

    well 18rank is considerable as unranked
    after recently patched players never lose rank until 15 so its not accurate to measure balance

    i guess you didn't even saw a tutorial and did nothing in game and only hided mostly

    you did nothing but died
    cause you told your games

    Games: 38
    Times I survived: 16
    Total survivors: 54/152
    0/4 survivors lived: 16
    1/4 survivors lived: 4
    2/4 survivors lived: 6
    3/4 survivors lived: 10
    4/4 survivors lived: 2

    so you did escaped 16times but you are still a 18rank?
    is very terrible for current overbuffed emblem system

    mostly people rank up easily no matter they died or not if they did something

    you should do something like repair gens,agro loop killer,rescue

    even slight touch generators and surviving would make you rank up

    you did absolutely nothing so you survived 16times but still a 18 ranked

    are you joking right? you should be 15rank or at least 16rank after those matches

  • Rtdib2
    Rtdib2 Member Posts: 22

    Sounds more like a personal matter to me or perhaps you need to change character as well. Not to mention it sounds like you were playing solo and not SWF which more times than not makes a huge difference. Change your playing method and your perks and if need be character. Hell even stake out the killer at the start of the match rather than going straight into a gen.

  • michaelrandom27
    michaelrandom27 Member Posts: 100
    Why is this community so toxic? All I did was give statistics and tell you what the results indicate. Have some dignity and learn to take criticism.
  • jiyeonlee
    jiyeonlee Member Posts: 211

    @michaelrandom27 said:
    Why is this community so toxic? All I did was give statistics and tell you what the results indicate. Have some dignity and learn to take criticism.

    the problem is you are not even try to be a logical

    you are very noob at this game maybe under 30hours for actual played, not a steam playtime

    than why you sure about your thinking can be wrong if people all say no at your opinion

  • jiyeonlee
    jiyeonlee Member Posts: 211

    consider you still stuck in noob zone and already talking like masterd this game

    and if your talking is unconditionally true why lots of average survivors exist at high ranked battle

  • michaelrandom27
    michaelrandom27 Member Posts: 100
    My friends are currently laughing their asses off as I read them your messages. I gave statistics and explained the results. What's not logical about that? Of course I don't have a Steam playtime because I don't have that version of the game. I have about 50 hours of experience in this game, and I was coached in SWF mode by friends who had been playing the game for months before I got the game. They die about equallly as often. Do they not count either? Then nobody who's stats disagree with your opinion will count, I'm guessing.
  • Dragonredking
    Dragonredking Member Posts: 874

    Your stat are flawed, not only do you have a sample size extremely small but there's also no proof that you did the game you claim and that fact that you are extremely low rank with a low ammount of hour doesn't help.
    Now here's a "couple" of video that help you reach the exact opposite conclusion you had.
    There's 300 game total, make with different parameter and they all got recorded and live streamed, all did at rank 1 where people that are "good" at the game and have lots of hour are.
    They even come with speadsheets.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEB9Rh6AtbI&index=1&list=PLoJokCjX7gozpIVDM1qjmXSC7M1SXSP3C
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T-NbLPKG2ExfGJoc5LIRE5uAlGcy438GEFB84SjfuvY/edit#gid=0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeWJcSWe-_0&list=PLoJokCjX7goxDLKGgKtbSAz81yIpy9Vr4
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fEcByNXR9qg_NJc9JacOomJxeH-hyUbyU9yJCSn0pFQ/edit#gid=0
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Nb66nPbMY&list=PLoJokCjX7goy1osh2j5jW2bepe1iZAxBU
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1--ynBWebOR-AqfV4OesP7uUjbbAVVeVVmWy0ihfYI-c/edit#gid=0
    To summerise out of the 300 game made there was only 3 4k.
    And even this experiment is flawed since they don't have very important stuff like a control group.
    So you can imagine how laughable your stats are in comparison.

  • Wolf74
    Wolf74 Member Posts: 2,959

    @michaelrandom27 said:
    Why is this community so toxic? All I did was give statistics and tell you what the results indicate. Have some dignity and learn to take criticism.

    First off, 38 is not a significant sample size.
    And playing rank 18 is another issue, since everybody knows that killer are more powerful at low ranks, but hilariously weak at high ranks.
    But that's where the problems come from: survivor start playing at low rank and get killed A LOT. Than they start to rank up and die less and less, but in their mind, they remember the killer to be extremely strong. Their conclusion is, they got better and that way deserve the escapes. Which is kinda true, if the game would be about skill. But the gamemechanics are so blatantly in favor of the survivor, that it doesn't take a lot to benefit from it. If both sides are on the same skilllevel, the survivor will always win, with the killer getting ONE kill max.

  • yeet
    yeet Member Posts: 1,832

    @michaelrandom27 said:
    My survivor rank is 18. Sorry I misunderstood.

    ah that explains everything thank you
    your data is meaningless

  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @Judgement said:
    michaelrandom27 said:

    I was rank 30. My character was level 50.

    He means your Survivor or Killer rank, not your character levels.

    This should be answer enough already. It tells you how much these statistic are worth :lol:

  • M2Fream
    M2Fream Member Posts: 288
    We, as a communitee, gather our own data  from all ranks to see EXACTLY where the power role switches from killer and survivor and why.
  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 996
    edited August 2018

    The problem with statistics like this - and equally marth's "depip squad", and the like - is that you are not getting data actually useful to "measure" gameplay balance; this data is only (somewhat) useful to indicatively say a few things about rank balance. Which, most people know that getting to rank 1 on either side is just a matter of time, not of proficiency, and that thus the skill disparity at any rank is "imbalanced".

    Similar to marth's squad, there are killer players in any region that get 3 to 4 kills 80+% of the time, at rank 1. Some of them streamers that you can follow and watch 3-4k at rank 1 consistently, hours on end, making survivors look hopeless. How? Because they are some of the better players at the game, with thousands of hours of experience, knowledge and skill, and they regularly go up against players that don't even match theirs when combined.

    In order to actually be able to derive from data meaningful things as far as gameplay balance is concerned, you need to have a competitive premise that is met: all 5 players on the server need to have a comparable amount of experience, knowledge and skill; all 5 players on the server need to be aware of what it is you are determining balance by, and try their best to fulfil their side of that equation (which in DbD terms to most people means number of escapes, where the game is considered balanced when two survivors escape and two other survivors do not). I'll ignore other formal and technical competitive premise stuff like latency, framerate, and such.

    My guess is, if you do run tests in meeting that competitive premise, the statistics will show the game to be noticably survivor-sided, still, because generators are just getting done too fast, but it will be decidedly less skewed than marth's statistics, for instance. It will also be in dependence on killers, maps, perks and items and add-ons as well as offerings used, of course, but the fact of the core gameplay balance is that gametime as determined by generators is just too limited for killers to consistently get 2+ kills, if the survivors diligently do generators.

    The fact of the game reality however is that the majority of players is not that good, on both sides. A lot of survivors do not repair generators diligently, or efficiently at all, hardly last half a minute in chases, make bad decisions in save scenarios. A lot of killers do not utilize tunnelling, slugging and camping properly or at all, do not chase efficiently or otherwise manage time well. There are of course degrees to which players are better at some of these things than other players, but the ranking system just pits them all together. So, as a group of four good survivors you will do well against average rank 1 killers, just like as a good killer you will do well against average rank 1 survivors. To put that into perspective: If even just 1 survivor is noteworthily more or less experienced, knowledgeable or skilled than the killer, the competitive premise is all but out of the window and the game result is not a meaningful measure of core game balance.

    Since DbD is not an esport with a distinguished pool of professional players, and since the ranking system pits all kinds of players with wildly varying levels of game experience, knowledge and skill against each other (as well as wildly varying levels of even building and playing to "win" (which is, survive vs. kill)), it's really hard to say what the game should actually be balanced for. The game at its core is certainly survivor-sided, but with the landscape of actual, average gameplay, adjusting the game too strongly with that in mind could very possibly make the actual, average escape rates end up being lower than what is considered balanced. As BHVR's presented stats have shown, the average escape rate is already slightly under two across all ranks, and all killers - to be fair, this is months ago and disconnects factor into this unfairly, but it is still indicative of the fact that in actual, average, day-to-day gameplay, the game is not as severely survivor-sided as people make it out to be, at all. Hell, the statistics they've released have in the past regularly shown that not even 20% of rank 1 survivors even use perks such as Sprint Burst and Decisive Strike - the by far most impactful survivor perks in the game (Sprint Burst certainly was, before the Exhaustion change).

    So, yeah, balance is a fickle thing to come by in a game like this, but it is hard to determine what to even balance for, when the competitive premise of the core game is hardly ever met, in actual gameplay.

    My opinion, for whatever it's worth, is that the game should be balanced around rank 1 escape rates, excluding games with disconnects, aiming of course for an average of 2, and keeping in mind that some killers are much deadlier than others (and potentially, hopefully buffing those weaker killers...). The vast majority of the playerbase is not rank 1, but they are also vastly less affected by any balance-relevant changes. The regularly-playing rank 1 minority develops a metagame around the actual, average balance, and are the ones that benefit and suffer from anything that affects core balance at least more-so than players at any other rank.

    Post edited by zarr on
  • ClementineS4
    ClementineS4 Member Posts: 17
    You can start documenting your games when you get to at least rank 14 or 9
  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 996
    edited August 2018

    Double-post due to permission stuff.

    Post edited by zarr on
  • ClementineS4
    ClementineS4 Member Posts: 17
    You can start documenting your games when you get to at least rank 14 or 9
  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 996
    edited August 2018

    Triple-post due to permission stuff...

    Post edited by zarr on
  • bambam
    bambam Member Posts: 0
    Killers are OVERPOWERED in General despite rank... And if you think otherwise you must be smoking crack or a fiend killer main. Killers move faster, can swing  360° and have no swing penalty.not to mention their perks and abilities.... Either there movement needs nerfed or they need an exhaustion from bloodlust cause something has to give...
  • Master
    Master Member Posts: 10,200

    @bambam said:
    Killers are OVERPOWERED in General despite rank... And if you think otherwise you must be smoking crack or a fiend killer main. Killers move faster, can swing  360° and have no swing penalty.not to mention their perks and abilities.... Either there movement needs nerfed or they need an exhaustion from bloodlust cause something has to give...

    Dont drink and text

  • se05239
    se05239 Member Posts: 3,919

    @yeet said:

    @bambam said:
    Killers are OVERPOWERED in General despite rank... And if you think otherwise you must be smoking crack or a fiend killer main. Killers move faster, can swing  360° and have no swing penalty.not to mention their perks and abilities.... Either there movement needs nerfed or they need an exhaustion from bloodlust cause something has to give...

    man I wish every survivor was as bad as you

    That'd make the game bearable.