My Hope
Just me giving my speculation on the reasons for the Ruin changes and the future of the game.
Obviously a lot of people are upset/confused over why Ruin is getting such a major change despite that it was used so much because there is a problem with gen speed. It feels like the devs are catering to one side instead of addressing a core issue. I'm pretty sure BHVR isn't trying to sabotage their own game, so what would be the reason behind such a controversial decision? I think it was actually a very hard call for them to make and a lot of it can be tied to the Stranger Things chapter.
Getting Stranger Things into the game has been a huge milestone for DBD. Whether you love the show or hate it, it's easily the most well-known depiction of modern horror they could have brought into the game. It's doing for the game now what the Halloween chapter did a few years ago, but on a larger level. The makers of DBD want to capitalize on all of the new players coming in as much as possible and I think it affected some of their decisions on priorities for the game.
Ruin is a perk that been accepted by the community for a long time. Most veteran players can just work through it or they know where the usual totem spots are. But to a new player, I can see how it's frustrating. They're either blowing up the gen or they're not making much progress because of the constant regression, which feels unrewarding. They probably don't even have the opportunity to get better at skill checks because Ruin is such a common perk that it is weird seeing a killer not run it.
BHVR wants to retain as many of the new players as possible and I think it caused them to make a hard call. They wanted to do something about this commonly run perk that turns off a lot of new players, but they didn't have the time to address the survivor's objective as a whole on top of the Lery's map rework and the Doctor update (a killer many new players also find frustrating to go against).
I sincerely want to believe the devs have plans to do something about how fast the games go without ruin. Whether it's gen speeds, another survivor objective, or buffing killers, I don't know. But with ruin skill checks no longer stacking with other perks such as Pop Goes the Weasel, Corrupt Intervention, Dying Light, or Thrilling Tremors, I think that will provide a better baseline for the devs to balance the game.
That is my hope. I would love to hear if you agree/disagree.
TL;DR I think the devs made the controversial ruin change to make the game friendlier for new players b/c of Stranger Things and they didn't have enough time for this update to balance how fast gens go. Hopefully they have plans in mind for future updates to balance gen speed since old ruin is no longer a thing.
Comments
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I think the solution is pretty obvious. They are getting ready to introduce AI into the game to take the place of Killers.
In all seriousness, the developers don't actually play their game, and get their information from a select few number of influencers, which more often than not have the same views on the game and are biased toward one side.
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Could have fooled me to be honest. Then please tell me how can 1 person be in 4 places at once?
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I think he's referring the the vast majority of the devs shown to being ranks 19/20, even if a few DO in fact play the game, they are still the outliers in this case.
Additionally, the ones that do in fact play the game, are also shown to not be entirely knowledgeable of certain elements of the game that a devoted individual would know.
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I always thought you were the AI the devs were developing :O
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Doesn't matter. They haven't done anything about the current gen speeds. Ideally a change to the most popular perk for slowing down the game would come with... You know... A less frustrating way to slow down the game. But it didn't. About half of my friends list is putting down dbd for good. We're talking people with anywhere from hundreds to thousands of hours. What can I say? Hope the change draws in enough new players to make up for everyone leaving. I'm sure the game won't die just because they changed ruin. But I get the feeling a lot of people are going to have a less enjoyable time.
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I always thought you were an AI developed by BHVR. Are you telling me your a real human being, with a job and everything?
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I get it if you're angry over the ruin changes. A lot of people are. But claiming the devs don't play their own game and are gonna turn the killer side into AI is just ludicrous. I can't really take your comment seriously.
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Against swf... Ruin was never strong
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Yes. And having to deal with a one sided scenario, 4 survivors to 1 killer, is already stressful on itself. When the game has been morphed to tell you you did badly at almost every turn, that doesn't add much to the experience, on top of the "developers" basically stating that your opinion is invalid because they have "their data". Data doesn't explain away everything. If it was just a few people here and there, you could call it anecdotal, but when it's a huge part of the community, and you still ignore it, that is a clear sign of bias and indifference.
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The AI thing was a joke comment. Hence why the followup statement was "in all seriousness". And honestly a lot of people know that the devs don't actually know what happens in their game. They look at "data" and call it a day. Or they go based off of the top streamers/youtubers, which are a majority survivor biased.
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Playing Killer is definitely going to be more frustrating at high ranks after the mid-chapter goes live. I hope there is enough evidence of that for the developers to take it seriously with the next full chapter update. Tell me though, if they make the changes to gen speeds or whatever else in the future, would that bring you and your friends back to playing? Or is this the final straw?
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People are going to keep saying this stuff until you quit dodging the questions they are asking. The consistent dodging of relevant questions serves only to either make you look like you don't care, or like you haven't actually played your own game and don't have the knowledge to answer. Of course we all know it's not the latter, but at this point we consider it comical so we just poke fun at you for it.
And you guys wonder why the community takes jabs at BHVR at every turn. You guys actually wonder why you're a meme in the gaming world.
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Oh that's nice and all but what if this comment responding to the original post and not someone begging for a sarcastic response from a comminity figure to give this person the hope they need?
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OMG my 950 hours in DbD aren't real! Nor are my streams! ;)
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Shhh, he wasn't supposed to know this.
The questions have been answered repeatedly. Doesn't matter if you do not like the answer. At this point, I cannot blame a bit of snark from the staff. 7000 posts saying the same thing, getting the same answers get to wear on a person.
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Bruh...link that twitch. I wanna watch you dominate with Pig 😂
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I still find that hard to believe, especially because I know of several devs who stream their gameplay. But I don't know what the majority of the development team does in their free time, so maybe you're right. It's more than just "data" though. They've said several times they always look at multiple factors, including data/statistics, player feedback, and their feeling of the state of the game.
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No - the questions have not been answered.
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I was mostly joking with Peanits because his comment was funny.
However, as someone who has never run ruin, the change does not affect me. I would like to point out, its hard to fix many of the issues the community complains about in regards to gen speeds due the fact that there stats say there is no issue.
If I remember correctly the devs at one point said the average kill rate should be 2k however there stats are saying most killers are averaging a 3k per game. However most killers at that rank are also running ruin. Does that mean ruin is what is causing the killers to get that extra kill on average? Or is it being cleanses so quick it doesn't matter?
You honestly can't tell unless you change the perk. However much backlash they are going to get. The next thing the developers should work on is what messages are displayed. You shouldn't see a message that says "Entity Displeased" or de-rank if you got a 2k if that is what the developers think is average.
These are all changes that have to happen one after another so data can be gathered between them. If you make it all at once, you have no idea what change causes what effects.
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950? Amateur 😉
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Yes, it has. It was answered in the notes, by Peanits and Almo even made a thread on the reasoning. Again you may not like the answer, but it is still the answer
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Honestly I think I'm ready to bury the hatchet. I'm sure a lot of people would stay if there were some solution. But I think it wouldn't make a huge difference for a lot of people. The ruin change isn't a mountain that's crushing killers. For a lot of people, its just the straw that breaks the camals back, or the final nail in the coffin so to speak. Its a myriad of issues, the ruin change is kust what pushed them barely over the edge. I can only speak for myself, not anyone else that's quitting, but those are my thoughts.
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Kindly show me to where they answered why instead of nerfing ruin they didn't fix why it was used so much to begin with? THAT is the real question. Nobody cares WHY they nerfed ruin. They nerfed a killer perk to make it easier for new survivors. People want to know why it was nerfed before the reason it was used was fixed.
(Spoiler: you can't, even with the white knight armor on)
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Sorry, but these devs have no excuse. They deserve all the criticism they are getting.
If new survivors don't want to deal with Ruin skill checks, they have plenty of options:
Survivors can level up Detective Tapp and get his perk Stake Out. That perk basically lets you bypass Ruin skill checks.
Or, new survivors can use Small Game, which will help them find totems much easier.
Or, survivors can use Tapp's other perk, Detective's Hunch, which reveals totem auras.
OR, bear with me here, survivors can learn to hit Ruin skill checks. It's really not that hard.
.....
I started playing Battlefront 2 over the Holidays. And let me assure you, that game is a lot more casual than DbD. There is no ranking system, which means new players can get matched with veterans.
Do you know what the devs told all the new players on social media?
They basically said: Hang tough when you first start playing. It will be challenging at first, but pretty soon you'll get the hang of it and be able to play with everyone.
And guess what? That's exactly what happened for me. That's the sort of attitude developers should have.
But not these devs. They've shown they are unwilling to admit that optimal survivors are a problem in this game. Instead, we get a nerf to important killer perks like Ruin (which helped to somewhat remedy poor balance).
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IIRC, they said they were pleased with how the changes were going because their experimental group of players were having more fun with the new ruin even though 4 or 5 gens were up almost all game. They are most likely going to go through with the changes. I've given my speculation for why they may have done it, but we as players have to move forward with the change instead of constantly harassing them for answers. At the very least, instead of asking "Why?", we should be asking "What Now?". I don't care that old ruin is dead and gone as long as they make changes to accommodate it.
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I love you both guys XD,so funny <3
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Nobody cares about their internal experimental research. They want to know what will be done to fix killers ability to apply gen pressure on huge maps. That is the issue, and it always has been. It was never the ruin nerf - and that is what they keep dodging. They are also have a bad enough track record with balance decisions for people not to trust them.
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Ruin was the main reason most of my friends, that I wanted to get into this game left, because of how flustrsting this game is not only where there is ruin in the game, but also when they got tunnled/camped or when a killer used an op add on. Example:
-"Wait, what? Why did she downed me with only one hatchet when I was healthy?"
-"Oh, because she used that super ultra rare add on that allows her to do that"
Seconds example
-"How did he saw me?! I was hiding behind this wall all the time! Does he have wallhack or something?"
-"Well, this killer probably has a perk that can allow him to see you for x seconds after he does x action"
And notice that these sentences aren't said calmy. These words are said with pure anger and flustration. This game is do new player anti-frendly. There shloud be much more hints and clues within 20-16 rank games. Example?
When your aura get showed to the killer, you shloud get a notification that killer sees you, information about perk that allows them to do that, and a short description. Maybe even a way to counter it. Anything will help. There is just do much to learn for new player. They won't experience the full potential of this game because how flustrsting it is at the start. Devs just listen...
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And I have 1368 hours in the game. And that is with about a year break in between. So while i might not have the same amount of time as the people you take your suggestions from (spoiler alert: majority of their playtime is on survivor) I have the time in the game to have a good ideas with what is wrong with it. Again, you guys are discounting my opinions because you have the idea in your head you know what is wrong, and the rest of us are wrong for our opinions because you have roughly 10 guys reaffirming your ideas in a bubble. It should be obvious just based on the increasing complaints on the wait times for survivor queues. It's only going to get worse.
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Where do people get the idea devs don’t play their own game? Stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.
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I'd argue that instead of making such a drastic change to the perk just tweak what is already there. I would have honestly proposed decreasing the penalty on hitting good skill checks with ruin applied to a percentage or two less. Or perhaps decreasing the delay on progressing after a failed check by a half second or so. THEN determine if there is a change from there. Just taking out what is there and replacing it with an inferior version isn't the way you ease into change.
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Thank you so much for noticing the armor. I put it on just for you.
And yes, they did answer it. The reasoning for the changes they did to Ruin and how it was done gives you the answer. Again, you do not like the answer, so you have ignored it. Thank you for playing, please try again in 24 hours.
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Because they are literally changing a killer that no one with experience has a problem with, and nerfing a hex perk simply because "new players find it frustrating"?
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Are you mad? It appears you are wanting to fight or argue with someone/anyone and it makes me wonder why? Are you unhappy? Experiencing hardships? Seasonal depression?
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True and agree. I still have hopes as a killer main but it still sucks to know that now we have to play without any early game slowdown except corrupt but this perk doesnt effectivly slow down the game.
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I wish instead of insulting people and making snarky comment's you'd update us on the game. You guys do that almost every comment you reply too.
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I have a similar hope..buffing the killers would be the most fun for everyone and make the game more exciting..look at last year..their killers are way better at controlling the game simply because they are less predictable and have the tools to fight back
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So you'll take the time to make sarcastic remarks here, but everyone everywhere is asking what the duck is up with matchmaking- and it's total silence? Well okay....
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From what I've read, CI isn't really worth the perk slot. Unless you play Trapper or Hag.
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Although I think the Ruin nerf call is a bad decision making, it is rude and irrational just to blame devs this way. Several days ago I checked Peanits’ s stream and he was playing a rank 2 huntress game in which he got 2 kills. In the end game chat survivors were asking why you camped and tunneled. Peanits’s response was “oh I saw you guys brought in a key and I assume we are gonna play sweaty”. So based on this fact, I think devs do know about the state of the game. The decision making, however, is a bit off the right track.
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Nice ad hominem to deflect.
Let's look at the facts. Killer queue times are instant. Survivor queue times are going up and up and up. The reason this could be happening is?
A. A bug
B. People taking an extended Winter Vacation
C. The game is gaining a disproportionate amount of new players that are choosing to just play one side.
D. Playing Killer is becoming less fun and the incoming changes don't look to be addressing any reasons for that.
Which of these seem to be more plausible? Do you think people are just venting their displeasure with the game to make it one sided or the other; or do you think that ultimately, people who actually know and have been playing the game for years want the health of the game to improve and not just keep churning people in and out of the revolving door?
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Just what an AI would say.
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I personally would like a little more transparency on issues like this. You clearly have the data but I haven't seen anything anywhere explaining the REASON, just "We are aware and looking into it". I think the community is backlashing because there are so few details. BHVR used to communicate a LOT more back in the day. What happened? Was it us? Did you get sick of the fans being asshats? I mean, I get it if so, but tell us!
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For the record, the intention of this post was to promote a healthy discussion about the changes that were made and the future of the game. I apologize angry players are using it as an excuse to call you out and make unrelated accusations.
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XD
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I'm wondering why the devs, the people this post is directed at, aren't actually referencing the material of the post but instead are replying to hate in the comments. :|
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It actually bothers me that I see some of the DEV's respond to this thread, just to talk about things that are almost entirely irrelevant to the main post. Which was a very thought out OP.
Still, left, with, more, of, the, same...
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