Would you rather have gen times slowed down or toolboxes nerfed?
With ruin being reworked and some people threatening to stop playing because of it, just thought I'd ask if either of these were done would you be more accepting of the rework.
Comments
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Toolboxes, personally. But that's because I'd rather lose to people playing well or being efficient rather than bringing better items.
Then again, I wouldn't say the two need to be mutually exclusive. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it could be both if it needs to.
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Yes
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Id say some kind of cap should be in place with how much of a speed bonus or debuff can be in place. Toolboxes are the main culprit for survivors, but not the only factor.
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Does this mean you guys are actually going to do something about gen times? First I've heard of it if so
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We've mentioned it a bunch of times, but after this update, we'll be able to see how things typically play out without a perk covering it up and make adjustments if needed. Not necessarily a guarantee that gen times will change, but we aren't just dropping this update and moving on. If we find that we need to make a change, we will.
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I'd rather have all toolboxes + Addons that have generator repair speed severely reduced if not removed and replaced with a new mechanic. Games need to be more consistent with game speed so BHVR can adjust the game accordingly.
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Personally, I only play Freddy and I put 3 perks against the generators and bbc. most of the time it goes very well (I play rank 1) (I am main survivor)
the "gen rush" is very rare, it is occasional, for example, on 10 games, there will be 1 single or 2 big maximum where there will be "gen rush"
After that, I play Freddy, so it’s a lot easier to get by playing Freddy than it is to play spectrum.
I don’t feel "gen rush" often, the problem is that I don’t play other killers, with other killers these statistics are necessarily different.
all this to say that I think playing killer with 3 perks against the generators is a good idea.
PS : I am really sorry for my bad english, its very difficult for me to speack in english, i use translater for writing this comment.
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What about PTB data? All my matches in the PTB had the gens getting repaired extremely fast, when I played as both killer and survivor
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PTB data isn't very reliable since ranked matchmaking is completely disabled (there's not enough people playing on the PTB to support it). Beyond that, there's a lot of people playing with the changes for the first time, so it would be unrealistic to expect them to play well right away. Many people might only play a few matches before switching back to live.
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Mate, I've seen you be the frontman of the game for a few years now, and while I respect you. THis is the absolute dumbest change I've seen yet. Adjustments are GOING to be needed. 100%. As bad as this patch is, they might as well revert to Last Breath era Infinites for all the good it's gonna do. Killer diversity is going to plummet outside of the big streamers/faces of the game, and the average player is going to be slotted into 1 of 3 killers if they want even a REMOTE chance of pressure. You claim BHVR isn't just dropping this update and moving on, but it's incredibly obvious that the devs are going to drag their feet as long as possible as per usual with major fixes, and by the time they release it, another generation of new players come in, oblivious to how hard the dev team is going to screw them if they don't play as survivors.
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Thats great! I wish you made it the explanation in the patchnotes instead of the gatekeeper emblem and low level surviviors not hitting skillchecks lol. Maybe you could have avoided the outrage this way
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Toolboxes, i'd prefer for the Generator times to not be made more boring.
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Toolbox nerf wont change a thing, just saying
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I don't know about that. Even a Commodious Toolbox with Socket Swivels and Instructions makes you repair 30% faster, and it'll typically last you the whole game (if your teammates are helping with gens). That'll bring a solo generator down to ~61.5 seconds. An Engineer's Toolbox will take it down further to ~57 seconds, though it'll run out much faster.
If you end up in a match with several toolboxes, that's a lot of time to knock off of your main objective. I wouldn't undersell how much they can do.
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Toolboxes. Killers already will tunnel and camp any item bringers to death so let's make it official. No items at all.
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Im glad you understand and can see the issues that toolboxes can bring, even more so when 3/4 can be active within a trial and even be found commonly in chests. I feel a similar tweak like the medkits got would be the best way forward, so reduce the repair speeds for each one and make the sabotage speed/efficiency higher. this would make them more balanced yet still providing a good use for them, i feel the sabotaging hooks is a dead play style yet is a very fun one to play and even go against.
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Nerfing items is not the same as removing items. Toolboxes getting nerfed would be a good thing in my opinion, being able to decrease your objective time by a big amount is not healthy for this game, since the game needs to be balanced around it's objective time.
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Both but not just braindead reductions, some smart changes that still make toolboxes worth and gens more interesting to do as survivor.
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Toolboxes are so op dude. Before the Freddy add-on nerf, the best two Freddy’s slow down add-on stack up to 15% slow. While even a brown toolbox can repair 15% faster. People were so mad at Freddy’s add-on and they nerfed it to the ground but the toolboxes are still op.
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I don't want gen times adjusted at all. I make most of my BP before 15 minutes is up and I know adding to gen times will just draw out the game past that. Not worth my time and I will get bored of matches if the average game time goes up.
I would rather them adjust toolbox speed. Hell, survivors don't even need items in game... although I know some items and combos can make it fun for them. The way I would change it is that if they wanted to bring items into the game, they have to equip it in the lobby, but can't use it until they loot it from a chest.
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For me definitely both I will explain why:
Toolboxes:Definetely the repair speed buff with em its noticeable.If several players with toolboxes and Prove thyself join gens just are made really fast. Killer have to find the survivor, have to break pallets (soon or later), killer have to go hooking...
If you wish toolboxes would help to hit great skillchecks to new players but nulify the benefit for geat skillcheks with toolbox so it wont be a great skillcheck genrush in higher ranks.
Gen rush:The problem is not gen speed for solo, the problem is the speed while 2 or more are repairing thats the real deal.
My max rank as killer is 4 and Ive noticed sometimes people run to you becuz they know that only by repairing and barely altruism they arent gonna pip.
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Both things should be addressed:
Toolboxes
I'd like to see them reworked so that the higher their efficacy, the lesser their charges, with no toolbox having more than 80 charges. this would lead to something like
- Brown - slight increase to repair speed - 65 charges
- Yellow - slight increase - 80 charges
- Commodius - removed and merged with Mechanic's Toolbox - moderate increase - 65 charges
- Engineer's - tremendous - 50 charges
note that brown and yellow toolboxes now repair with a slight increase in speed, instead of moderate.
Gen speed
Make the early/mid game slower by increasing repair speed of those first generators, or, in other words, decrease the charges needed to repair a generator the more generators are completely repaired:
- 5 generators to go: 90 charges to fully repair (→ 90 seconds without add-on/perks/items)
- 4 generators to go: 88 charges
- 3 generators to go: 86 charges
- 2 generators to go: 83 charges
- last generator: 80 charges
New Early Game Slow Down perks
Lastly, there is always the band aid solution: add new perks that are oriented to slow down the early game.
I copy from one of my previous topics (here's the full post: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/119348/a-new-early-game-slow-down-perk )
Isolation
While repairing a generator alone, you suffer a 28/32/36% penalty to repair speed. For every generator completed, the penalty is reduced by 7/8/9%.
(Note: current numbers are just a suggestion, point is that the penalty will come to 0 once only one generator remains, and the more generators the team completes, the lesser the impact of the perk)
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Toolboxes are not the core problem, they are simply an aggravating factor to the gen times issue. Early game is very Survivor-sided, because Survivors can start progressing their objective immediately while Killer spends time patrolling, chasing, downing and finally getting a Survivor in the hook, not to mention the actual pressure to unhook won't start until the second Survivor is injured except for 1-shot Killers. It's no surprise that in high level matches, 2 or 3 gens pop by the time the Killer hangs the first Survivor.
Old Ruin addressed many gen speed questions:
- It increased gen times by punishing good skill checks and preventing great skill check bonus.
- It created a secondary objective since many Survivors didn't want to power through the perk.
- It soft-countered Toolboxes, because the item's skill check rate increase made hex skill checks more present.
Hex: Ruin was to DBD what the Force of Will card is to the vintage/legacy format in Magic: the Gathering: the (overpowered) glue that holds the gameplay together, a necessary evil. In other words, now that the glue was removed, devs have to manually fix each problem band-aided by it.
My suggestions:
- Give each Killer their own gen time and make 90 seconds for Billy as the standard. Generators for every Killer stronger than Billy should take 80 seconds or less to complete (this would allow baseline Old Nurse to come back at 70 seconds or less, for exemple, and prevent Spirit from getting further nerfs). Killers weaker than Billy should take 100 seconds or more. It would be a lot more balanced for someone like Clown if Survivors needed 110 seconds to complete a gen.
- Start designing a legit secondary objective ASAP. It would probably take a long time to release, something like setember 2020 or beyond, but better late than never.
- Make Toolboxes require more skill to use. For example, instead or passively increasing gen speed, make them give a greater bonus upon hitting a great skill check.
If those problems are not addressed, or if devs keep don't do anything in a very timely manner, this game is gonna get boring really soon for both sides. Having to hold back as a Survivor so your opponent has time to breathe on one side and feeling like a helpless, bullied NPC on the other while also having to deal with an oppressive grind: if that PTB is a representation of DBDs future, we are in very dark times indeed.
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Instead of any of that, the killer and all 4 survivors should spawn together in the killer shack, and straight away early pressure and hearts racing lol
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It's a map issue guys. Not the generator repair times.
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As long as sabotaging speeds don't get nerfed I'm cool. I don't really see people complain about it much if at all. I use my toolboxes mostly for that.
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I can't see the difference between toolbox and normal repair speed except for the progress bar's color so definitely not toolboxes.
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What would be the point of hitting greats then ?
If greats did the same as good skillchecks there'd be no benefit of hitting them, so it'd be pointless to bring in an item to make greats easier to hit.
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Don't make regular gen work even more boring. Look at toolboxes instead
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Brown are 10%.
I don't think gen times should be increased as that would be boring. I think the best way to approach this is adding another mandatory objective to repair gens. When you spawn in you have to find a toolbelt for example. There could be 4 special chests, they'd need to look completely different than the regular chests. Each one containing a toolbelt. The extra time at the beginning would help killers get going.
As for toolboxes, that's a tricky one. Unless new uses or special traits were added they'd be hard to nerf without making them useless.
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Lol pure chaos 😂
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I rather see toolboxes just go. I don't think anyone wants to sit on the gennys any longer than necessary. It is perhaps the most boring part of the game. Increasing gen times makes no sense if you chose to Nerf ruin. Ruin already did that. If your going to increase gen times newer survivors are just going to get caught and have no fun anyway.
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Toolboxes. Even if survivors were to find toolboxes in chests it wouldn't hurt killers as much if they are nerfed. Extending regular gen work would be super boring especially for new players
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I'd rather just have another objective, for example maybe gathering parts in order to repair the gens for survivors.
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I wonder why so many games had that perk "covering up" actual gen issues.
Perhaps because gens went way too fast without it?
Shame we change things based on statistical usage and not the core cause of the symptoms.
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In my opinion i would increase the amount of charges per gen. Every generator needs 80 charges. If one survivor repairs a gen, the gen speed is 1 charge per sec. And my change would be that you need 100 charges instead of 80. So one survivor needs 100 sec for one gen. The Toolboxes have to be changed too. Instead of 80 charges they will have 100. So the gen time is nerfed by 20 sec If only survivor repairs it.
If the survivors don't like this change and the gen times are too slow, it can be buffed. In this case you choose the middle between 80 and 100. Right 90 and the Toolboxes would be changed too.
This is what i would do with the gen times and so
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Just bring Franklin's Demise, lol. If I see four toolboxes or 3 toolboxes and a flashlight, I'm bringing Franklin's, whisperers, monitor and abuse, and make your choice. Usually four K or get some DCs but it's a good counter.
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At some point the repair speed effect of toolboxes will need to be removed, and them made to just help with something like skill check zones or something less game breaking.
I don't know when devs will realize and implement this; but I know it is going to happen eventually. It has to.
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Tell that to michael myers, hillbilly, and ghostface. And huntress.
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Just make toolboxes have another function. I think game time is a delicate thing and anything that swings things too hard one way or another is bad for the game. Gen times can stay as they are imo.
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Id prefer toolboxes to be changed first.
The reason for this is to reduce the impact they can have on the game so gen speeds are easier to gather stats on without as many varying factors.
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Unless additional objectives are going to be added, both gen speed and toolboxes need to be looked at.
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As a killer, I think gens need to take longer. As a survivor I think gens are the single most boring aspect of any game i've ever played and don't want them to take longer. So honestly, idk lol
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Not until they start looking at kill rushing pink add ons. They already nerfed bnps and insta heals. Killers already have the upper hand items/add on wise bc they can see when survs grab toolboxes or flashlights and change their build accordingly. Survs go in blind every time. Know what its like bringing a nice purple medkit and then its plague with a pink mori?
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I'd rather they just revert the ruin changes, and focus on making a sub objective, with you know, actually intelligent design. Otherwise this game is going to revert back to 2017 levels of absolute horse radish to deal with as a killer, but an absolute cake walk as a survivor
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Wouldn't the best approach have been to drop the ruin rework along side a map size/gen speed overhaul?
Not only would you have avoided all this uproar in the forums, but you'd also have improved your relationship with the community by a ton.
Instead the dev did the completely opposite and released a terribly biased (intended or not) dev update, and now have to throw bones at the killer community in the hopes everyone is patient enough to suck it up this ruin rework and wait for map/gen overhaul, which might take as long as it took to rework Freddy.
Awfully timed.
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Toolboxes only grant 10% increased repair speed.
But they can be shared now. If other survivors does not use a Toolbox to repair, your toolbox uses 50% more charges for every survivor cooperating granting 5% increased repair speed to them. They are affected by the toolbox's benefits and backdraws (if it has any). Sabotage speed increased.
Worn Out - Decreases success zones, increases Great Success Zones.
Toolbox - Increased Success and Great Success Zones.
Commodious - Increased Charges and Increased Great Success Zones.
Mechanic's - Repair sounds reduced by 4m and increased Great Success Zones.
Engineer's - 1% Bonus Progress with Great Skillchecks and increased Great Success Zones.
Alex's - Increased Sabotage Speed, slightly increased Repair Great Success Zones.
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Wait what? I don't quite get your point here.
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I would like for gen time to increase but implement a secondary objective that you could finish to get a buff that will increase your gen speed to the normal speed.
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