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So the official stats for DBD came out...
And honestly It's pretty useless info. Every time someone tries too use the official stats in a post, a dev will come in and say "they aren't actually accurate, so don't rely on them for info." Why even post them then? What's the point of giving people data too simply throw it all out the window?
Can we get accurate Data that goes into all the details? I want too know with accurate information who are the weakest and strongest killers by accurate numbers, not what feels almost random numbers.
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Since when killrate is useless info ?
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I’m going to disagree and thank those responsible for the data again.
We weren’t owed this.
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I believe they said "numbers aren't everything, there's a lot of factors etc." Not that the numbers were inaccurate.
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Yeah, if we're gonna be given data I'd like it to at least have all the nuances pruned.
Also if we could get rank 1 stats and NOT red rank stats that would be wonderful as those will be extremely different numbers. Separate those by system as well as that is skewing numbers also.
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its hard to do rank 1 alone because one depip and youre out. its way to small of a sample size
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sense kills stopped being the only factor in pipping.
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Those factors will change the numbers, especially since they combined console and pc stats. I would of enjoyed seeing console and pc stats seperate, what are the most used addons for killers, what are the most used perks, etc.
And they didn't even do anything with survivor besides the map, I want too know what perks are most used, what's the most used items and addons, what's the most picked survivor, what are survivor average survival rates per survivor, things like that.
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In 2016, the Devs showed a kill rate of all killers, where it was said to be 60 and 70% (remember this was the dark times, where pallet vacuum, double pallets, infinites, etc.). Survivors said it was fine and that the game was balanced at that time. It's the same situation now, where some survivors are saying that the game is balanced, while SWF is still the same, gen go by way to fast, too many safe pallets, etc.
This killrate doesn't even show the different platform killrates, as all platform killrates are put together.
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Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
The Demogorgon is in the same boat. His shred attack takes some practice to use well (timing, aiming) much like the Huntress. In the right hands, he can still do well.
When a Dev straight up tells you it's useless, the data is useless.
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ironically, This was the post that made me feel like I needed too speak about how pointless the stats are.
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Its pointless to give us statistics that's a combination of all platforms splattered together. It should be PER platform.
At least the extremes tell somewhat a truth, in that a weak killer perform bad across all platforms. Clown buff when?
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During 2016-2017 dark times killrate was around 50-60 % .
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I rather have stats that show amount of hooks before all gens are completed and then amount of hooks after completed gens.
For all we know this kill rate is basicly camp 1guy for 2mins and camp 2nd guy during exit gates. Ye x amount of hooks aint perfect either, but its sure as hell alot better than the current stats imo.
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Where did they say it was not accurate?
All i heard was that they don't base patches only on numbers.
As for sharing the data: People love getting data, regardless of how worthless it may be.
I mean, the proof for that increases with every discussion started based on these stats.
So why not share it? It keeps conversations alive.
That said, it's not like i'm against getting ALL the data...
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I know it probably requires alot of effort but I wouldn't mind stats specific would like to see all of the stats for xbox
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Now that would be eye opening.
2 kills could be multiple hooks and 2 kills could be be 1 hook followed by camping each guy because the killer can't do anything. Not to mention freebie kills gained after gates are power because the survivors were trolling around because they'd already won, or NOED. All of which may effect kills but are not related to how balanced the game is.
There are so many factors that make those kill numbers look way higher than they actually are realistically in terms of determining balance.
While the devs say they don't use them directly because of this, posting them with so many flaws to the forums misleads so much of the player base as to the game actual current balance even if this stipulation was stated. Kinda like "These stats are completely untrue...but here are the stats guys".
Sorry I just further elaborated on what you were saying.
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You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
This is a direct quote from peantis when someone made a Demogorgon post. She legit says that they are inaccurate and that you shouldn't rely on them.
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what are you even expcting from them?
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They are accurate. The reason why you shouldn't draw conclusions from there is because they are very broad. They don't tell you what perks, offerings, or add-ons were used, what maps it was played on, etc.
To give an example, you shouldn't look at it and go, "Wow, Freddy is OP!" That's a blanket statement. You should only use it as we do, to see where a problem might be. Is it Freddy himself, or is it a specific combination of add-ons and offerings? Is it the snares or the pallets? These are the sorts of questions you should be asking.
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tell me your logic pls. you say its balanced when two die and two escape. but you cant pip as killer with this logic (at least not in high ranks) explain pls thank you.
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In the case of Freddy can you enlighten us on what you know so far about why he's doing well?
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My bets on slowdown stacking perks/add-ons
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I'd argue that your gripe is then with the emblem system, not with the balance itself. Although if you get two kills, you shouldn't necessarily pip. That's as close as you can get to a draw. You should be pipping when you do well and not pip once you get to a rank where you're comfortable.
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no, its because he is unfun to play against so ppl just DC.
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I doubt they included DCs in the stats
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its not only me its the whole community in this forum that "gripes" about it. but you guys are ignoring most of them... start being more transparent with us already (and a bit more honest if possible).
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i forgot to put Kappa in the end of my post about the DCs.
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It doesn't matter what stats they give some will never be happy.
The problem with any stats is the fact it can show how the game played out, what add-ons or items could be used, what perks ett I mean how can you account for if survivors throw themselves at a hook, rush gens, use perks or items to do gens faster compared to not. Killers using the best add-ons, camping, tunnelling etc rank disparity per match there is just so many ways it can go.
There is so many factors in how a game plays out no matter the stats they will always be in a way useless and why the devs simply stated not to draw conclusions from them in terms of balance for the game as they take in many more factors.
No stats will ever show what people want. For example some people want swf only at red ranks but what if that showed killers on average still got more kills per match? Would you then want it show the best swf players only? What If that still showed the same? would it be show us the best swf using the crutch perks? Or using the best items? It would be never ending.
The above also applies to showing only the best killer players.
The only stats I see changing a mindset is when they show the thing some want to see or believe. If they don't will forever be disregarded as people will just not believe them.
Damned if they do and damned if they don't is all I can see with most posts about all and any stats.
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They didn't
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🤷♂️
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They can't be accurate and broad, it's one or the other. If they are accurate then everything should be accounted for, if they are broad with many factors that weren't checked, then they are inaccurate. The fact that the stats are mixed between console and PC alone make it incredibly inaccurate because it's two very different playstyles. Old Nurse was the best on PC, but the worst on console, if you mix those two stats together it would be a very inaccurate and not tell the full story.
This is a direct quote from you on a Demogorgon post:
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
When you even say "They don't show details and account for any amount of factors." then you can't say they are accurate. You can't have no details and it be accurate.
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I will be happy when we get accurate stats. My post is simply saying that the stats are useless since it doesn't cover anything. I agree that it is hard too look at stats with so many factors, but too post them and say "They are accurate. The reason why you shouldn't draw conclusions from there is because they are very broad." it tells two different stories. You can't have accurate stats if you don't account for many, if not all the factors in said stats.
I am happy at some things the devs do, but the things I'm not I'm gonna talk about it, as people should. I am happy they are trying too post stats, but the stats are useless if it's not accurate.
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The stats are accurate for what they actually represent. What makes you state they aren't? broad stats after all doesnt mean inaccurate.
Peanits simply said dont read too much into them as the be and end all of balancing as they take in many many more factors nothing more.
Of course they are broad and as I said all stats will always be that way for some as can never be what people want. The game is so varied on what can be used each match a stat on every single possible perk, addon, offering, killer, survivor, rank, skill level, saves, hooks, gens done, gates opened, totems done etc would be impossilbe. The devs have these and if we actually think about it its why things can take so long.
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You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
This quote from Peantis. they said "They don't show details and account for any amount of factors" which means they aren't accurate. You can't have broad and accurate stats, if you can't factor in everything in a stat/stats, then it is inaccurate.
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I see people are still trying to find excuses until they get very deliberate data that supports their stance.
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That's what I stated in my first post 😉.
The stats are accurate for what they represent.
The devs have said not to draw conclusions from them regarding balance as they basically don't show the whole picture.
That means anyone who does draw conclusions on either side are not thinking about anything and everything and are just using them to try and fit what they want to believe but not what is actually the case 😁.
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1. Can you define what types of matches constituted as being 'Red Ranks' matches? (e.g. - a.) All 5 players started the match in Red Ranks, b.) Killer started the match in Red Rank but not necessarily survivors, c.) All 4 survivors started in Red Ranks but not necessarily the killer, d.) at least 1 player started the match in Red Rank, e.) majority of the players (3/5) started the match in Red Ranks.)
Just to clarify (since I've asked this several times without any answer) , what criteria did you use to determine that a match is a 'Red Rank match' to be used in the data?
2. Why were the Nurse's kill rate statistic only given for PC? Can you provide them for the other consoles?
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Idk, I think that if they're aiming for 50/50 and we're not even seeing 50% survival rate on the 'best' maps I think there is probably a problem.
I dunno what it is, or what the solution is, but they're not hitting their goal.
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Yes, and its funny to observe.
"The stats don't show what toilet paper killers/survivors use, so they are inaccurate and meaningless!".
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If they are accurate that would mean killers are averaging like 70% or more win rate and that can't be right, you said it was closer to around 50% for all killers.
That is the problem people have with it, on the steam forums everyone is freaking out saying nerf EVERY killer because every killer so so high above that 50% marker according to that sheet.
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That's the problem with making a conclusion with just the stats as they don't show any reason.
For all we know the majority of survivors just might not care about dying as much and throw themselves into situations which enable this to happen.
Then we have these stats which include the event and archive challenges which as we know the players have been farming instead of playing the game objective itself. Both these can heavily skew the stats.
I stated this before challenges came out as it was the same scenario in other games and it severely hinders your chances of escaping.
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accurate and precise are synonyms, and if they are accurate, then why can we not draw conclusions from it? you are telling two different stories here. You can't have data that is both broad and accurate, it's simply not possible. If killers have around 50% win rate with everything factored in, but the data posted says they are in the 70% range, then it isn't accurate. It's simply not possible.
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That's the problem, they aren't accurate. You can't have broad and accurate stats, it's simply not possible. If you exclude factors that would change the data from the data, the data is inaccurate. All it does is give us a very, very vague idea of where killers sit. Someone said that the actual killer win rate is 50%, but the data says it's up too 70%, which is causing people too say "nerf x killer." If this is true, the data is off by 20%, which is the farthest thing from accurate that is possible.
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Of course they are as that is what a broad stat is.
These particular statistic show the kills over all ranks, platform along with popularity. That itself is still an accurate statistic for what they represent.
Whether they are accurate to use for overall balancing is the question (which we know they are not)
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Thxs for the info, but my point still stands. Just cause the kill rate is around 60 to 70%, doesn't mean that play killer is fine.
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It can't be accurate if there are factors that change the result. And it doesn't even show kills well because they combined Console and PC together, which completely ruins the data. If they were separate then that would be one thing, but having both combined completely changes how the data looks.
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A friend of mine recently posted a fairly active thread on the state of Demogorgon, and cited the fact that he's one of the least played Killers with the lowest win rates as one of the reasons Demo needs buffs.
Peanits comes along like "lol actually the stats aren't accurate, and the reason Demo isn't played is cause he's hard lol. Also way less people play Hag lmao."
The devs specifically release stats to explain to us why they make balance changes but then completely ignore their own stats when balance changes are suggested. Again what's the point of releasing stats then? Why tell us that post-rework Nurse is the only Killer with a sub 50% kill rate just to tell us "she's hard lol that's why she isn't getting kills", or to tell us that Clown is one of the least played Killers in the game just to say "he's hard lol that's why people don't play him."
"They're hard lol" isn't a good reason for a character to be dogshit tier.
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You are completely missing the point.
These are stats simply to show the average kills by killers across all platforms and who is used. They show exactly what they are intended too and for that reason they are 100% accurate.
What they include or don't is irrelevant as like they stated
"Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers."
Can they be used as a tool to balance? No
Should the players use them to prop up any arguments? No
Do they show what the devs chose to show? Yes
What they include or don't doesn't matter as they show what the devs wanted to show. Even numbers which may include dc's are 100% accurate in that regard. Not what they should use for balance but accurate for what they are none the less.
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Agreed. Plus the devs keep saying "The stats are accurate, but we didn't remove any factors that could alter a killer's kill rate." which means it isn't accurate. The devs said that all killers are around 50% kill rate, but the stats posted go as high as 70%, so now people are calling for those killers too be nerfed.
Honestly they just need too remove the stats and give us stats that are actually accurate, not random stats that don't even work because they are combined from both console and PC.
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