Oni ''flick'' changes
Hey guys,
There is currently a lot of questions and feedback about the Oni control changes that were released today on Hotfix 3.4.2.
We've had a discussion with our design team because some questions were left unanswered. Here is some clarification on the intended mechanics and our next steps:
- The controls, both on console and PC, are now working as intended.
- Using keys and mouse at the same time no longer stacks while turning after using the Dash.
- The angle the player can turn after dashing is capped to 90 degrees and is planned to stay that way.
While we think these changes are introduced to improve the game, we did hear a lot of feedback on the turn speed and controls changes. We feel there is something to improve there.
Our design team is planning on changing the turn rate ratio to improve on the feeling of the Dash, allowing you to freely move your camera within the limit. This will be included in a later update.
Some players are asking if these changes will impact on The Hillbilly's controls. They will not.
Hope this clarifies what we did for this change.
Comments
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Sounds like a happy nerf so he cant turn corners esy to get a free one hit on us. If so good it was very frustrating and annoying feeling like i outplayed him by moving at an angle he cant turn only to be surprised when i get hit.
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Thanks for clearing up the ambiguity. Is the turn rate ratio applied when he's at the end of his sprint, or is it his turning ability while he's sprinting?
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Both, currently. There's a limit to how quickly you can turn while sprinting, and there's also (currently) a limit to how quickly you can turn your camera while attacking. You could whip your mouse across the room like it's on fire and you won't turn any faster. The idea here would be to allow you to move your camera around freely while attacking, but keeping the 90 degree maximum.
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That would be perfectly acceptable IMO.
15 -
Thanks for clarifying.
Can we get one of these for his ultra rare? Why allow the survivors to effectively remove his power?
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Thank you guys for listening. It is appreciated. This change was way too harsh.
4 -
What do you mean?
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A 90 degree flick is honestly all he needs. I felt a bit dirty after landing some ridiculous flicks on people who did everything in their power to juke
3 -
Survivors pass the blood orb, the blood orb disappears
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Survivors now absorb his blood orbs if they touch them, but give Oni 2 seconds of aura reading per orb. This means that an organized team can take his power away completely without actually risking anything.
Not sure how likely that is in practice, but that's the position people are taking.
10 -
The triple nerf is too much.
Fair enough, he definitely needed a change from the ptb to release. But not all this. Now, what you basically have is a negligably better Billy, that doesn't have access to his power for a portion of the match. The pallet speed nerf and changes when he picked up survivors were great. I honestly felt he was in a perfect place after that, but now that his power has been gutted he just feels clunky. He's leagues weaker, but also feels more broken than in the ptb. I don't think another change was warranted, but if it was, definitely not this. I honestly feel that removing his aoe would be a better change. He'd still feel responsive, and reward timing and accuracy, but survivors would have a chance to use some known methods of dodging, hopefully making him more fun for both sides.
I know I don't speak for everyone, but I feel a lot of people would agree that what made oni fun wasn't being able to mega snowball and 4k every match, but how fun and satisfying his movement was.
17 -
It's an add-on, so you'd be opting into it. You're not forced to use that. But more importantly, it's pretty nutty for tracking. You're making your power harder to get, yes, but you're also getting a ton of tracking in return. It's a different way to play him, if you want.
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I'm interested in seeing how people feel about how it stacks up next to Myers' scratched mirror. Totally different beasts, but I love builds that give you power through information rather than just adjusting numbers.
3 -
Why make one of the Oni ultra rare addons be in survivors hands? Not the killer? It's an ultra rare????????
21 -
But plague haa no negatives , and tracking ia even more important to her than oni
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Yes but plague has a much harder time capitalizing on it. Remember that Oni isn't completely denied his power by the addon, it's just a bit harder to get.
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This sounds great. Currently, he is still able to turn 180 degree with his dash lunge, but only at the very end of the lunge, where you suddenly get insane sensitivity again. I guess that will be fixed as well then, and instead he'll be able to turn faster but only up to 90 degrees?
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@Peanits There was already a reduction of aura reading, I also think, of course, it is a nice addon that changes gameplay, which I like on addons. But reducing the aura reading effect twice and adding the fact that you only get to your power with hitting survivors now seems again like a useless addon. The other ultra rare is already not worth the BP as half of the time when missing a hit you are looking at the ground, now both are not really worth it.
I will try it but really feel that you cut your power for a minor reward. Oni is already weak as long as he has to refill his power, now you need to down two people before you can make use of it. Of course aura reading is good, but I'm not sure if 2 seconds is really worth it. At which rate do they spawn?
Also, on killer instinct I notice that you may not look around too fast as you might catch the phases where it is invisible. Then you look to the next corner and the killer instinct pops up again outside of your sight. I think this will happen with a 2sec window as well, and you don't search for these as you don't have an audio cue that a survivor is highlighted
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@Peanits will this change also go live on console? if yes does it means that we will finally get increased sensitvity for killers? i think it should be about time..
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Doesn't sound like increased sensitivity for all killers, just a change in the way Oni in particular is controlled.
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To be fair a free global Nurse's Calling is kind of absolutely insane.
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So ... buff the turning speed of ONI a little? @Peanits
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So you want the plague ultra rare nerfed as well I guess. This one doesn't cut the Plague's power, it just has no downsides
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Yeah cuz if it's active then the Plague doesn't HAVE a power.
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its impossible to flick on console now can y’all look into making higher sensitivity settings on Xbox and ps4 oni hardly playable on console now
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This all seems a little harsh but I play on ps4 hopefully it's not as bad in practice I will see in bit when I'm home and test him my fingers are crossed
1 -
How many more nerfs sheesh y'all are literally gonna gut him into Oblivion at this rate. He doesn't feel fun to play on console and you're making him worse it makes me sad cause asthetically he is my favorite killer.
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I want to sincerely thank you for the changes you're looking into, the altered camera sounds like an extremely healthy change, and I look forward to seeing that change in the future.
I truly appreciate the open dialogue here as well, so thank you.
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For the life of me I cannot believe that a blood thirsty demon in a fury can't turn fast enough towards his prey. Another killer to the entire roster for SWF to laugh at while he is genrushed and looped. I have no hope for your upcoming changes.
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Sorry, what? Im talking about the aura reading addon. Plague always has the vile purge and the corrupt purge is not affected by that addon in any way. What do you mean?
But back to the changes. I just think the ultra rares are allowed to be strong. Currently there is a trend of adding these downsides. That was not an issue before. Currently the addons go from unusable / not worthy to totally OP. There are a lot of killers that don't have downsides at all and I was happy about the Oni having these again just being good. Then this double nerf.
I mean if there is a survivor that is able to loop, he will gladly suck up all the orbs, being visible for a minute and then heading for the loops where aura reading doesn't help at all. Sure this will not happen in every game, but for an ultra rare that should not happen at all. And now pls noone say "then don't chase him". He still will deny me my power AND addon. So the benefit should be big enough. And as said before, 2 seconds are easy to miss. And don't forget that survivors see the orbs and can play around it most of the time. The only assured scenario is that survivors can't do gens injured without being noticed.
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Addons with downsides are the best kind of addons.
Remember, ideally addons will be completely unneeded, and there is a limit to how strong a Killer can be before it becomes problematic, regardless of the rarity. Prayer beads, iridescent hatchet and Mori's are great examples of this gone wrong.
So for a Killer to have super strong addons and be balanced their basekit needs to be weaker, however we don't want this. So it's much better for the Killer to instead have weak addons and thus their basekit can afford to be stronger.
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So was the flick intended? Was it not intended?
There is a thread were Janik initially states it was never intended and few posts later, in the same thread, he says you should be able to flick 90 degrees as intended. What?
Also it was not mentioned, but Scott Jund demonstrated you can only flick at the last few frames of the attack of the demon dash, so instead of going a sharp 90 degree turn it's more of a slow 10 degree curve for 95% of the attack and then a sharp 90 degree turn on the last moment, which means if the survivor turn a corner they cannot get hit at all since you'll overshoot them initially while trying to turn and then just smash in their general direction but meters away from where they are.
I hope your upcoming change reverts this, as you're planning, because right now the Oni feels like you're trying to turn a 16 wheeler around a Micky D's drive thru.
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@NuclearBurrito Still don't get your point before, that made no sense.
Prayer beads got changed for a reason and iridiscent hatchets are only OP in combination with the +2 belt (which of course everyone combines). But that's it. People complain more about Clowns exhaustion gas (which is uncommon) than about Scratched mirror, even a lot of people love to play against scratched mirror.
The Demogorgon addon is nice with slower teleport but longer stealth. Less map control but you get a different playstyle and may place your portals differently and get some free hits. But beneath that he has still the Shred for the chase. The Oni has nothing until he has downed two survivors. Not sure if the aura reading helps out this much compared with being double the time in Demon Mode. That's why I think the duration should be at least long enough to catch a view on it, without rotating your camera 180 degrees per second.
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Or you know, you could just make mouse and keyboard inputs not stack and leave his power as it was.
Not making conflicting statements on forum in the span of minutes would be also nice.
Also, the glove addon is pretty weak now, it's on the level of power of speed limiter, so now oni is a killer with the most useless ultra rare addons in the game right now.
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*Nurse wants to know your location*
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Why would people complain about Scratched mirror? It has an appropriate downside which when combined with the upside makes for a really fun playstyle. If the addon was just free info with no downside then it would be extremely unfun and boring.
As for this addon I think you missed the part where the orbs stack the duration. So if they run into 3 orbs all at once they will be revealed for 6 seconds, and if they run into a cluster of 20 then you won't be losing sight of them any time soon.
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Really bad change. Why was this killer put into PTB and initial release with a flick that wasn't intended and which made him massively more powerful? It's downright deceptive, intentional or not. You can say "X amount of flick is unintentional", but we're not developers and we don't know how much of what we're doing in game is intended or not.
15 -
Thank god for these changes. The flick was insanely overpowered. It took basically no skill to use oni with it.
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STOP NERFING KILLERS
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ps4
90 does not turn.
Nothing has changed.
Was it really adjusted?
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can anyone explain to me, so Oni will have better turn rate than Hillbilly now right? I had to refund the DLC because it's hard to control him while using demon dash, which is the same reason I don't play Hillbilly.
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Was hoping he would be better to play on console but he still feels weird to play except now I have less control during the dash.
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this is ridiculous never has a killer been nerfed twice so quickly this game will eventually have no one wanting to play killer because it seems its all about the survivor. I play both sides and i find the survivors always have the advantage when they bring certain items.
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Whoa a killer that is viable and balanced with high reward for skilled play and dealing with a weak early game? And he's fun??? Sorry guys, we messed up on this one. We should have this patched out real quick.
21 -
Get rid of the lunge you added to the dash attack.
Before this nerf to a loopable killer, you would instantly attack out of the dash if you tapped m1, now he will do a small lunge no matter what. this just allows survivors to just 360 the oni.
Who am i kidding, these devs balance around "FUN" and spinning in a circle around the killer is fun for survivors, so balance achieved right?
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They are currently working on controller sensitivity
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this game is made for survivors to have fun if you didnt already know. we have to deal with it and play survivor or CIV5 :c
7 -
This change should have been done in the "PTB" or at least before the new chapter release. What's the point of having PTB and testing killer if you can't fix the new killer before its release. The Legion or Mom were also changed after many people bought DLC. I feel like this is fraud. You could have demonstrated upcoming The Oni flick changes before the new chapter so people could consider whether they want to buy The Oni or not. It's not a big amount of money but we still PAY to buy the DLC or your service. I really don't see this company's sincerity toward customers anymore.
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Therein lies the problem with generally balancing around the lowest common denominator majority's nebulous concept of "fun" in a pvp game: many players define "fun" as "I win". They should have long ago clearly defined what a win is for each side and balanced around fair win rates for higher skilled players. You know, like every other pvp game does.
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but thats what makes dbd and bhvr so special: being something else than every other game!
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