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Play with your food and Dying Light rework ideas
Play with your food
You become obsessed with one survivor. Whenever you injure your obsession, but do not down them, gain a token.
This token grants 2/3/4% increased movement speed, with a maximum of 3 tokens. When your obsession is downed however, lose ALL tokens.
Reasoning
Play with your food to me is a good perk concept with bad execution, simply because it doesnt feel like the effects of the perk are very present in the match, and it has a boring way how you build up tokens. This small rework would make it so that you can apply pressure on your obsession, but still must be careful about downing/killing them, and allows the speed increase to be much more effective. I have given a smaill increase to the speed buff also from a total 9% right now to a new total of 12%, if bloodlust does get nerfed then I think this speed increase is justified.
Dying Light
You become obsessed with one survivor. If your obsession is the first survivor to be hooked, ALL survivors suffer IMMEDIATELY from A 15/20/25% action speed penalty. If the obsession is killed, the penalty is removed. If the obsession is NOT the first survivor to be hooked, then Dying Light becomes a token system. Each time a survivor is hooked that is NOT the obsession, gain a token that grants 5% action speed penalty for the survivors that have been hooked, with a cap at 3 tokens. If the obsession is hooked, lose ALL tokens.
Reasoning
Again, Dying Light is a good perk with bad execution. Right now you have to tunnel your obsession to kill them and get Dying Light into effect. With this new idea it would admittedly mean you have to tunnel your obsession at the very start of the match, however the difference now being that they DO NOT need to be killed and so it promotes going after other survivors after you have hooked your obsession. This rework is also more helpful for killers as Dying Light can come into effect much sooner in the match. If the obsession is not the first survivor to be hooked then Dying Light still has a use, but the effect is harder to activate and has less power.
Conclusion
I hope you guys like my suggestions, I have more perk rework ideas ( mainly for killers ) so if you like these these then I will post some more up.
Thanks for reading!
Comments
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Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.2 -
@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.I consider obsession perks to be a unique form of perk like hexes, if you use a hex perk, then there is the risk of it being destroyed but if it stays active it is a very powerful perk.
Obsession perks are a case of a unique survivor that if you meet certain parameters then you become much more powerful, but if something happens to the obsession then you lose that power. Save the best for last is a great example of this
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@IronWolf115 said:
@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.I consider obsession perks to be a unique form of perk like hexes, if you use a hex perk, then there is the risk of it being destroyed but if it stays active it is a very powerful perk.
Obsession perks are a case of a unique survivor that if you meet certain parameters then you become much more powerful, but if something happens to the obsession then you lose that power. Save the best for last is a great example of this
What's the risk for DS ?
STBFL is actually different, because it FORCES the obsession to bodyblock and such to make the killer to lose stacks, which can eventually put the obsession at a risk.YOur version of the perks is just like "Hey, you already got DS which is a second chance perk, take more chances as I have to let you get unhooked because reasons"
Not to mention it also empathize hook rushing for your Dying light stuff, which will nullify its effect for the most part.1 -
Let's also talk about a simple scenario. You have dying Light, and you catch your obsession early game. What do you do ? Stay by the hook to exploit the debuff as much as possible, or allow the survivors to unhook and get rid of the debuff ?
How I would use it would be pretty simple : camp the obsession till the end, so people have hard times to repair with the debuff, and take minor advantages, and then, get NOED to clear up the remainings.0 -
I don't know if PWYF would work well like that. There's really nothing forcing you to lose your tokens, so it's more or less a permanent 12% speed boost. Even if the obsession catches on and tries to block you and force a down, they're going to have one hell of a time catching up to a killer moving ~5.15m/s.
12% does a lot more than it seems. (Assuming 4.6m/s base in this example) You'd go from closing distance at 0.6m/s to closing distance at 1.15m/s (catching up almost twice as fast). That's a little too much for something that can always be active. I would maybe lower the speed boost a little (taking notes from NOED, where the lower speed boost still makes a massive difference), but otherwise that sounds way better. The current perk is too hard to get stacks and too easy to lose them.
Dying Light sounds okay, but maybe a little awkward to use. I don't like the current perk. Like you said, it encourages tunneling that one guy, and that's not fun. Taking someone out early in the match is already a huge deal, having a perk reward you for doing so just promotes something that's not fun.
The part I find awkward: You have to hook the obsession first. So you'll see killers walk up to survivors on generators and then 180 like they should have knocked first when they notice it's not the obsession. I would just make it "the first time the obsession is hooked" and get rid of the token system here. That way you'd still have a reason to go for the obsession, but not so much to ignore everything just to find them.
With that said though, that might be a huge buff to an already pretty good perk, so I'd maybe see how that plays out first. Currently it's not that great because it takes a pretty decent amount of time to activate, but with this, you'd just need one hook, allowing you to get that bonus much sooner. Might need a slight reduction to compensate. A slightly smaller penalty over a greater period of time to balance it out, basically.
I like the ideas though, they sound like huge improvements. The numbers might need some tweaking though.
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For Dying Light, cant we just make it so the debuff is applied to everyone permanently after you hook the obsession? It is what you were suggesting, but without overcomplicating the perk. The biggest problem I have with it is that if you just happen to not find the Obsession early on (because RNG, unless you are Freddy), the debuff is potentially useless depending on the generators left.0
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I had one in mind for PWYF if you guys are interested. :P
It would be like this:
You become obsessed with one survivor. Chasing your prey and playing with it fills you with excitement. After letting your obsession escape a chase, gain three tokens instantly. Letting a normal survivor escape grants one token. Doing an offensive action against a survivor takes one token. An offensive action that doesn't down your obsession doesn't take away tokens.0 -
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@Runiver said:
Let's also talk about a simple scenario. You have dying Light, and you catch your obsession early game. What do you do ? Stay by the hook to exploit the debuff as much as possible, or allow the survivors to unhook and get rid of the debuff ?
How I would use it would be pretty simple : camp the obsession till the end, so people have hard times to repair with the debuff, and take minor advantages, and then, get NOED to clear up the remainings.The debuff does not go away when the obsession is unhooked, only when they are killed. I apologiswe if there is a miscommunication there but that is what I meant
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@Peanits said:
I don't know if PWYF would work well like that. There's really nothing forcing you to lose your tokens, so it's more or less a permanent 12% speed boost. Even if the obsession catches on and tries to block you and force a down, they're going to have one hell of a time catching up to a killer moving ~5.15m/s.12% does a lot more than it seems. (Assuming 4.6m/s base in this example) You'd go from closing distance at 0.6m/s to closing distance at 1.15m/s (catching up almost twice as fast). That's a little too much for something that can always be active. I would maybe lower the speed boost a little (taking notes from NOED, where the lower speed boost still makes a massive difference), but otherwise that sounds way better. The current perk is too hard to get stacks and too easy to lose them.
Dying Light sounds okay, but maybe a little awkward to use. I don't like the current perk. Like you said, it encourages tunneling that one guy, and that's not fun. Taking someone out early in the match is already a huge deal, having a perk reward you for doing so just promotes something that's not fun.
The part I find awkward: You have to hook the obsession first. So you'll see killers walk up to survivors on generators and then 180 like they should have knocked first when they notice it's not the obsession. I would just make it "the first time the obsession is hooked" and get rid of the token system here. That way you'd still have a reason to go for the obsession, but not so much to ignore everything just to find them.
With that said though, that might be a huge buff to an already pretty good perk, so I'd maybe see how that plays out first. Currently it's not that great because it takes a pretty decent amount of time to activate, but with this, you'd just need one hook, allowing you to get that bonus much sooner. Might need a slight reduction to compensate. A slightly smaller penalty over a greater period of time to balance it out, basically.
I like the ideas though, they sound like huge improvements. The numbers might need some tweaking though.
Thank you for constructive criticism! And yes I agree with what you said on PWYF. I don't know exactly what the numbers should be for the speed but it is mainly the concept of the speed being hard to lose that I wanted to put forward.
With Dying Light I was trying to think of ways to make the perk effective for prolonging the match, without it being the strenght of ruin and I just kind of thought that if you get the obsession first, it would be a quick way to get Dying Light into play without forcing any tunneling afterwards.
But thank you for the detailed response and the ideas here are just food for thought so obviously this is not me saying that this is exactly how the perks should be.
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@PigNRun said:
For Dying Light, cant we just make it so the debuff is applied to everyone permanently after you hook the obsession? It is what you were suggesting, but without overcomplicating the perk. The biggest problem I have with it is that if you just happen to not find the Obsession early on (because RNG, unless you are Freddy), the debuff is potentially useless depending on the generators left.Yes I see what you mean' I just wanted to think of a way to add some uniquness to the perk rather than it simply being that Dying Light is useless unless you completely tunnel someone. If everyone is on board with the idea of Dying Light being able to be activated at anytime during the match then absolutely I will change the description to match that, I just want to make sure Dying Light is not a tunneling perk really.
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@Runiver said:
@IronWolf115 said:
@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.I consider obsession perks to be a unique form of perk like hexes, if you use a hex perk, then there is the risk of it being destroyed but if it stays active it is a very powerful perk.
Obsession perks are a case of a unique survivor that if you meet certain parameters then you become much more powerful, but if something happens to the obsession then you lose that power. Save the best for last is a great example of this
What's the risk for DS ?
STBFL is actually different, because it FORCES the obsession to bodyblock and such to make the killer to lose stacks, which can eventually put the obsession at a risk.YOur version of the perks is just like "Hey, you already got DS which is a second chance perk, take more chances as I have to let you get unhooked because reasons"
Not to mention it also empathize hook rushing for your Dying light stuff, which will nullify its effect for the most part.DS is just a broken perk i'm sure we agree so taking that out of the discussion, then yes STBFL is exactly as you say and that is how I feel obsession perks should be, risk and reward, which is what I want to accomplish here.
I don't want PWYF to be this weird perk where you have to keep finding then purposely losing the obsession for it to take effect, and then you can easily lose stacks. I want it to be that you find your obsession, hit them, get stacks but then still be able to apply pressure by hitting them without losing stacks.
Dying Light I replied to you on a seperate post so I hope that clears any confusion.
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@Mercury said:
I had one in mind for PWYF if you guys are interested. :PIt would be like this:
You become obsessed with one survivor. Chasing your prey and playing with it fills you with excitement. After letting your obsession escape a chase, gain three tokens instantly. Letting a normal survivor escape grants one token. Doing an offensive action against a survivor takes one token. An offensive action that doesn't down your obsession doesn't take away tokens.That's actually quite good.
Damn you I wish I had thought of that
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No hard feelings, but i don't like these at all, especially your PWYF.
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What I would have done is the speed buff but and a max stack of 20% maybe 15% but only against the obsession and I would have added another passive with it like "each time they get away" you have an increased chance of doing mangled or something you know? Punish the obsession.
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@Boss said:
No hard feelings, but i don't like these at all, especially your PWYF.If I may ask why?
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@Mesme said:
What I would have done is the speed buff but and a max stack of 20% maybe 15% but only against the obsession and I would have added another passive with it like "each time they get away" you have an increased chance of doing mangled or something you know? Punish the obsession.A 20% or 15% movement speed increase would be too powerful if it is going to be a constant factor into the match so that is why the speed buff should be lower
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@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.because perks that encourage tunneling are awful for gameplay.
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PWYF is currently garbage. Your proposal wouldn't change that. Killer loses to much time tracking, hitting and then losing the obsession.
My approach would be to get a 3 or 4% stack for every first hooked survivor. Just like BBQ.
Lose all stacks when you kill your first survivor.0 -
@SenzuDuck said:
@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.because perks that encourage tunneling are awful for gameplay.
That is what I want to try and eliminate from Dying Light
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@Tsulan said:
PWYF is currently garbage. Your proposal wouldn't change that. Killer loses to much time tracking, hitting and then losing the obsession.My approach would be to get a 3 or 4% stack for every first hooked survivor. Just like BBQ.
Lose all stacks when you kill your first survivor.At that pont though you are inevitably going to lose your stacks for simply doing your objective and then it would be much harder to build up stacks again because it requires multiple survivors to be hooked. The obsession needs to come into play with these perks to add the risk/reward factor to them so that is why I put up these ideas.
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No, you wouldn't be able to regain any stacks.IronWolf115 said:@Tsulan said:
PWYF is currently garbage. Your proposal wouldn't change that. Killer loses to much time tracking, hitting and then losing the obsession.My approach would be to get a 3 or 4% stack for every first hooked survivor. Just like BBQ.
Lose all stacks when you kill your first survivor.At that pont though you are inevitably going to lose your stacks for simply doing your objective and then it would be much harder to build up stacks again because it requires multiple survivors to be hooked. The obsession needs to come into play with these perks to add the risk/reward factor to them so that is why I put up these ideas.
The goal would be to hook everyone twice before trying to kill them. It's risky, because the more survivors are alive, the faster gens get done.
It would drastically reduce tunnelling. Since the killer would want to keep survivors alive as long as possible.
Maybe add a condition, that when all 4 are alive when the gates are powered, killer gets to keep his stacks.0 -
@Tsulan said:
IronWolf115 said:@Tsulan said:
PWYF is currently garbage. Your proposal wouldn't change that. Killer loses to much time tracking, hitting and then losing the obsession.
My approach would be to get a 3 or 4% stack for every first hooked survivor. Just like BBQ.
Lose all stacks when you kill your first survivor.
At that pont though you are inevitably going to lose your stacks for simply doing your objective and then it would be much harder to build up stacks again because it requires multiple survivors to be hooked. The obsession needs to come into play with these perks to add the risk/reward factor to them so that is why I put up these ideas.
No, you wouldn't be able to regain any stacks.
The goal would be to hook everyone twice before trying to kill them. It's risky, because the more survivors are alive, the faster gens get done.
It would drastically reduce tunnelling. Since the killer would want to keep survivors alive as long as possible.
Maybe add a condition, that when all 4 are alive when the gates are powered, killer gets to keep his stacks.I dunno, I dont think it would be worth it personally.
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I think this thread (a lot of @Runiver) exposes a potential new path for Killer obsession perks, though. Maybe there should be two specific types of builds at play instead of just trying to balance them all equally? Have some obession perks be dedicated “Keep the obsession alive for long term benefit” ones (Remember Me, STBFL, PWYF) and then others be the “Get the obession killed asap for early game but weaker advantages” group (Dying Light). Maybe by looking at perks in those specific build categories we could get to a point where there’s an endgame obession build and a early game obession build, just like there’s a hex build, an always know where survivors are build, a late game build, the meta build, a terror radius build, etc.
Additionally, I think they should add 1-2 generic obession perk(s) that isn’t/aren’t tied to any killer so that there’s another obession perk and to introduce new killers to the mechanics sooner. Like how TOTH and NOED are generic. With 4 more total obession perks you can have those two dedicated obession builds and this could help get them out sooner as they aren’t tied to a chapter.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.because perks that encourage tunneling are awful for gameplay.
I'm not sure why you think these version will discourage tunneling.
This Dying Light will just make the killer to tunnel the obsession to hook it first, then camp it to death to full exploit the debuff. The limitations (having to hook obsession first) makes the perk even weaker and more situational, and not really worth using since the obsession has 90% chance to have DS, and chasing a DS user first usually mean an extended chase, which is very oftenly a game losing gamble.
This PWYF doesn't reduce tunneling either. Once the obsession is on the hook, it means you downed it and lost all of your stacks, and I doubt letting it to heal to hit it and get more stacks to be a viable option to win a round. You'd better simply kill it at this point, since having a kill is still superior to a "potential buff".
The gameplay itself encourage tunneling and eventually, camping, mostly due to the chase length compared to the generator repair speed.
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@Runiver said:
@SenzuDuck said:
@Runiver said:
Play With Your Food :
Yet one more reason to allow the obsession to survive. I just dislike the whole system of "Hey, you're obsession, so you're allowed to live longer because reasons" on every obsession perks except for Dying Light.Dying Light :
Yet another "Hey, you're obsession, so you got to live", no thanks.because perks that encourage tunneling are awful for gameplay.
I'm not sure why you think these version will discourage tunneling.
This Dying Light will just make the killer to tunnel the obsession to hook it first, then camp it to death to full exploit the debuff. The limitations (having to hook obsession first) makes the perk even weaker and more situational, and not really worth using since the obsession has 90% chance to have DS, and chasing a DS user first usually mean an extended chase, which is very oftenly a game losing gamble.
This PWYF doesn't reduce tunneling either. Once the obsession is on the hook, it means you downed it and lost all of your stacks, and I doubt letting it to heal to hit it and get more stacks to be a viable option to win a round. You'd better simply kill it at this point, since having a kill is still superior to a "potential buff".
The gameplay itself encourage tunneling and eventually, camping, mostly due to the chase length compared to the generator repair speed.
I have explained to you already that you do NOT LOSE THE DEBUFF once the obsession is unhooked, only when they are outright killed.
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These are great0
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@M2Fream said:
These are greatThank you!
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I feel that Obsession perks make the Obsession feel safe and have no fear against the killers, here is my idea as well, cause Play with your Food needs a HUGE rework.
You become obsessed with one survivor.
Each time you hook your obsession, Play with your Food receives a token.
1 Token: receive 3/4/5% movement speed bonus.
2 Tokens: receive 6/8/10% movement speed bonus.
You will lose your tokens if the Obsession is sacrificed or killed.
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