The hatch
The hatch is a poor design choice. If you go too ham survivors just say "nope". Key in hatch 3 escape. Why in a pvp game, would you give anyone the option of saying "nope too hard" and leaving?
The key is the real issue here. The gens, small amount of anything survivors have to do, and they can check out at anytime. Why even play killer? Survivors have the infant difficulty while killers sweat.
Devs, maybe treat the survivors like they can think for themselves? Give them more to do, remove the key. Currently the key is so much worse than you think ruin is. If you are going to have an unbalanced game, make it unbalanced for both sides. You are destroying the game for survivors and killers. (This post is for those that want to add substance to this discussion. Nothing else.)
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Even as a survivor, i hate the hatch mechanic. It was a lazy way to end the game when there was only one survivor. Hatch should only be usable if all gens are done and via a key. If there is only one survivor, just automatically open the gates after 60s , but the killer can gets aura reading on the survivor every once in a while (Even when in lockers). Then some pallets will get reconstructed by the entity (depending on the amount of gens done) during this "End Game Chase".
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That's an interesting way to do it.
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Moris.
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I like the idea of only 1 survivor being alowed to leave using a key.
So if all 4 wanna escape, they gotta bring 4 keys
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I think 3 people 1 gens is too much. 2 people 1 gens would maybe be more fair. That’s my only issue
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I’ve talked about the hatch before and I recommended they change it into a mine elevator that can only take 1 survivor after they repair it and power it up with 3 gens.
Unless someone calls it with a key back up.
Unfortunately the hatch mechanic overall was poorly designed.
But hey I would add and a change all kinds of stuff if I could to make the game more interesting.
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That's a cool solution. Making it a optional objective sounds good.
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for me, the hatch keeps the game intresting to the end. When i play survivor, i play solo most of the time.
that means you have mates that disconnect if the killer sees them, or die on the first hook because reasons.
When there are 2 survivor left, its about who is found first. Yet, i do gens anyway, and hope the other one does as well (often, he doesn´t). Yet you have something to keep playing the game. if all works out, you might escape together, if not, you can still make it.
If the hatch was gone, you could just throw away the game after the first disconnect, because in a 3-1 situation early the most likly outcome is known.
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I agree about the disconnect issue; however, I strongly disagree on the hatch’s design.
1 survivor can sit in a corner the whole game and wait for ( their teammates to all die/ exit gate to open) and then book it for the hatch and they were required to do NOTHING.
Giving them a free win.
I want something else that isn’t a hatch( different version that is more fair).
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I would propose that the two Gens left over be changed to hatch gens... complete one of them to have access to the hatch but only open it with a key
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I agree. But, I also think all survivors should start on the hook and immediately die. This way the killer wins and hes happy, and we can get into more games faster.
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Ima just be that one guy that says "IF KEY GO MORI GO. SIPATICO(which isn't simple in Es Pan Yole btw.)"
In all seriousness, people who have an argument about saying hatch is a sucky addition, I feel it's for that one solo surv Viv vor dat ran the killer around for ten mins while three blendettes sat the corner warping out of existence.
But what about SWF? You may axe. Your friends could be potatoes with sticks and motors attached walking around in that repetitive *whhaa whhay whwoa* every time they take a step.
What if you just did bad? Then you don't deserve it. In that situation, you sucked and got a free escape after watching your teammates do work. Maybe something like a person in specific does x amount of gens or has x amount of match points.
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Nope it’s too weak buff it.Oh...
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We shouldnt have exits period
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Well, i am really curious where you encounter all those survivors that do nothing all game and just wait for the hatch? Who wants to play this game like that? I mean, there are hatchcampers that search the hatch and dont do anything after they found it, but only if only 2 people left (ok, once i got a guy who started it with 3 survivors left, but only once), but those survivors that do nothing at all all game?Never saw them, not even at rank 20.
I mean, the only argument you bring against it is "there might be some people who get the hatch that dont deserve it". But the same holds true for killers that get an easy 3v1 due to a disconnect. they dont deserve that kills either. Should a game just end completly after a disconnect?
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Meh. Keys are fine. If there are 3 Survivors alive when the hatch appears AND they have a Key then they earned it.
Take Franklin's if you have a hard time taking down the Key Wielder. Or take a Mori.
I dunno.
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I definitely see what you mean, but I would say your issue is more with the keys than the hatch. The hatch on its own might only let one person escape. While that isn't desirable, the alternative would be a never ending game where the survivor can't work on a generator because the killer is patrolling them and the moment they touch one, the killer will hear it and know. Back when this was possible (before the EGC), these matches would go on for an incredibly long time.
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i remember hour long games from back in the day.. could easily hold people hostage
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Let's delete make it so all moris only work once per game. Sounds fun to me.
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???
Your reaction to Peanits is strange.
He explained how it is currently better than it was, and that one Survivor being able to get out isn't desirable [for the Killer] it is better than the alternative of having an endless game for both because the last Survivor never wanted to risk anything once Hatch closed when the EGC wasn't a thing which is an issue both sides had to deal with. This isn't even mentioning Hatch stand offs.
He never said it was unfair for Survivors.
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I'm looking at it from both POVs. As I killer, I do not want to waddle around between the remaining generators for half an hour waiting for that last survivor to make a move. I want that match to end so I can move on to the next match. If that last guys escapes, oh well, I got three, I still won. If I find the hatch first, I won. Either way it's over in a couple minutes.
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I ensure you that it wasn't. I could not play both sides more equally if I tried (I played about 53% killer to 47% survivor last I checked).
I won't disagree with you on the emblem front, but against, I don't think the hatch is the issue here, it's the way the emblem system reacts (or rather, doesn't react) to it.
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I don't think it's fair to judge a player based off their team. If one good person gets teamed up with 3 bad players they are gonna lose as most of their team weren't being productive, but that isn't the good players fault, so why punish the good player?
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I don't have an issue with the hatch. However I can not understand why keys are a thing. It bypasses so much of the game.
The way pipping is set up you don't need to do much of anything to pip as survivor...you especially don't need to survive. Killers need the hooks and kills to pip and the keys rob them of a chance for that.
As a killer my only real counter for a key is an ebony (if they bring the key...if they find it in game i'm screwed). I can make sure everyone is gone before the hatch even spawns. I absolutely hate doing that though as it robs me of points and I don't find it fun.
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Then we should change how "A lot of killers" feel as wining the game. Why should winning the game mean a 4k and not a 2k or even a 3k?
Yes I agree with you that the game basically tells you that you failed if you didn't get a 4k. Which is what they should fix, not removing a mechanic that feeds that last survivor or two hope (which off lore is what the entity feeds off).
They should change how pipping and the messages you see to not seem like you lost if you didn't 4k.
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That was my point, it seems like the game is telling you that you lost if you didn't 4k (and as you pointed out, sometimes when you do).
I think a lot of the complaints would go away if people saw a 2k or a3k as a win instead of a lost. Which is something they have to fix with their pipping system.
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So when will the killer emblems see a full overhaul (or even better, a reversion to the victory cube)? Because I'd like to say that there's nothing more disheartening than getting a 4K just for the game to tell me that I lost that round. I'd be fine with losing pips on a 2K, but if only 1 or 0 get away, it doesn't feel right to be punished for that.
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I don't know why but I think it would be funny if you had a key and you opened the hatch, but only you (the person who opened it) could leave the match. This means, you would leave your team behind and start EGC. I think it would make keys more balanced but there're other issues with it.
I've had matches were people would leave through the hatch and I lost the game, or I would leave with other people and they lost. It's very unfair and I think keys need a change. Also, I think funny watching your teammates die, especially if they were bad.
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Oh there is no question about it from anyone except the devs for some reason - Keys have to go and so do Mori's. Maybe they could be reworked, but I don't see much room for them to work with in that regard.
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Why do you think dying is a punishment? Survivors still pip when they die.
Killers need all their hooks.
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I don't think we've conclusively said anywhere that we don't want to change keys and mori's. Frankly I'd agree with you from my own experience playing (speaking for myself). More realistically, IF we were to completely rework the two, that would take a significant amount of time, and finding the time to do that is tricky.
(Emphasizing IF because this is not confirmation of anything.)
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Removing them/disabling them until they are actually ready for release again wouldn't take long.
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I had an idea at one time for mori's that I think would be a bit better. Right now green mori let's you kill one person, and the pink let's you kill everybody.
My idea would actually swap that around with a few changes.
Yellow mori - fine as is.
Green mori - Allows you to kill all 4 survivors, but you can only kill a single survivor after they've been hooked twice. (i.e. you're only able to mori on death hook.)
Pink mori - Allows you to kill only 1 survivor immediately. (No Hooks required.) - This should also be made to appear much more rare in the bloodweb, but it would make it feel more like a pink offering at that point. (It would suck to be that one singled out, but I feel 1 is better than all 4 dying after only one hook...at least imo.)
I also think keys could be changed a bit too and this is what I had as well.
Purple Key - Only allows the user to escape while triggering the end game collapse upon closing the hatch. (Hatch closes automatically and doors are powered while all gens are then covered.) (This then allows the killer to patrol the doors and start a timer to end the game.)
Pink Key - Opens the hatch for 30 seconds. Can only be used if all 5 generators are completed.
Not the best ideas obviously, but just something I've thought about in the past.
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In order to "finish" a Gen keys could be used to turn them on... lol
But anyway I think the hatch should spawn as normal if there only one survivor left but if 2 survivors or all gens are done the hatch spawns closed till one exit door is open or a key is used
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Forgot to add... without the sound the hatch makes
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I don't consider pipping winning.
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Because people care about ranking up and the higher in rank you go, the emblem system forces you to go for a 4K to make sure you can pip. You can get a 3K and safety pip or worse and 2K and de-pip, especially against optimal survivors. Since I've been in red ranks this reset, I've had a few games where 3 survivors escaped via hatch that the group brought a key.
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Which was the point of my last statement, A HUGE fix to this game would be changing how ranking up worked and the messages you get.
The game tells you that you failed for not getting a 4k the higher rank you are. Which is dumb, no matter your rank, a 2k should be a success.
I would say, that a 2k shouldn't count as a win if you are 1 hook mori people, but if you are 3 hooking or 2 hook mori'ing people the game should be like, here is your pip and here is "Entity Pleased" message.
I think the game would be a lot less toxic if the game didn't make killers feel like they lost if they didn't 4k
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This is actually fine (in theory). Depends on how you get the 4k. With moris? No win indeed. I'm aware that the emblem system is bad, but when you are by definition a rank 4 killer and not a rank 1 killer, then the average game you are performing should keep you exactly at rank 4. Sometimes pip, sometimes depip, mostly black pip. Just to notify, that not every game deserves a pip and not every player deserves rank 1. You yourself said, a win is a pip. So if you 4k'd without pip, it was probably not such a brilliant way to win. Problem is with emblems, for example, if people don't unhook or fail to kobe, you lose one possible chase and hook action etc, affecting your emblems negatively.
To the key thing, I also think opening the hatch should take some seconds to open and it should close after being used so that every survivor needs a key to escape through the hatch. These two minor changes would actually help A LOT in my opinion
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