Adress 99%ing the exit gates.
Its one of those "super easy idk how you missed it" loopholes to the endgame collapse.
Why does it not atleast regress when not touching it?
Sure, the killer can go open the gate on their own, which will just lead to an ez unhook and running out the now opened door for survivors.
I mean, im not even talking about the timer and the lack of pressure the endgame collapse gives in a LOT of situations, but that lacking scenario is something we rarely even get to.
Killer hooks someone, survivors just 99% the gates knowing that in 99% of the cases/chases they will be able to open the gates and run out, then take their time to heal and go for a rescue, all the while not being pressured at all.
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I think @Almo already answered such a question. They tried it and the results of regresssion were not satisfying. So, BHVR already had this idea but dropped it
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What I hate about this is that they, and apperently some of us as well, leave it to them to test it and come up with the conclusion that something does not work.
and we should just accept it as some absolute truth.
Not to mention all the possible variety towards an adjustment of the suggested door changes.
Like FOR EXAMPLE, what if it does regress but cant regress further then 20% of what it was?
Now its suddenly a little less safe to run at a closed door, subtle, maybe to subtle, but better already, you can mess around with these parameters all you want to get it atleast MORE fair/balanced.
Its weird to introduce something like the Endgame collapse and all the work that went into that and then just allow for such an obvious loophole to exist.
Also, to discredit the devs and their testing a bit (not to mention, this is what the damn PTB's are for...) remember when they changed the Huntress's hatchets?
How the admitted on stream that instead of it being a rectangle box fiting the hatchet shape you were actually throwing a beachball? like the hatchet was rotating in all direction/axis from a single point. (even though it did not act like that regarding corners of walls but did act like that regarding survivor hitboxes hence being able ot hit a survivor that is already around a corner)
Remember how they finally thought they should adress it, then tried, failed misserable and just reverted it and NEVER touched it since?
Yeah.... idk if we can trust them with these blank statements of "we tried it and it did not work"
Although if im suppose to read that as "you can complain about it but the devs arnt going to do anything about it" then sure, I guess.
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The EGC mechanic was implemented to avoid hostage situations, not to offer the killer easy kills in the endgame.
If the repairs were completed and the gates 99'd, you should be looking at what you did wrong up to that point, because you've already lost, regardless of 99'ing, unless the survivors go suicidal (which happens from time to time, tbf).
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oh here we go with the "if it got to that point you lost already" argument.
Love that, soooo why is the game still going then? why does it not end right away when the doors are 99nd?
heck why is 99ning doors even possible then? why not just all or nothing, like doing a totem?
the game is over so you open the door and you leave, but no, you can postpone that, hold the game hostage for as long as you can until the killer goes and opens the door for you....yeah great design that.
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Its not holding the game hostage if the killer can open the door, too. Stop reinventing meanings to official terms.
If the gates are 99'd, you have lost. It is as simple as that. You can choose to start the timer yourself to add pressure to the survivors, but they don't have to do that themselves. It's tactical and perfectly fine.
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The match does not end because neither side used their option to start the timer to a guaranteed end. You're using the hostage terms incorrectly. It's an option, which means you can choose to do it or not and, the fact that everyone in the trial can do it, by definition means that neither is hostage of the other side's stalling.
You may not like the "you already (likely) lost" argument. But just as many things in life, even if we don't like'em, it doesn't mean they aren't true.
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Totally agree.
In concept, Engame Collapse sounded great, but I was very dissapointed after realizing that 99%ing gates was the way to trick it out. Sure, it ended hatch stand offs and Im really glad for it but overall egc feels lackluster.
I would like to see how it would work with these changes:
- EGC starts when final gen is repaired.
- Timer wont slow down wheen surv is injured or hooked.
- Adjust timer, probably add minute or two
- Adjust exit gates spawns, restrict their spawns so they wont be on same wall or side.
I don't want free kills, I want mechanic that would spice up the ending.
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Well lets just say I dont agree with the claim that the endgame collapse exists soley as a means to combat holding a game hostage.
If that were the case it would just be a fixed timer then the doors are opened and non of this lasting longer when a survivor is downed or on the hook nonsense.
Its meant for some high stakes gameplay at the end, 99 doors just completely removes that and gives just about all the power to survivors, combine it with body blocking, BT and DS and yeah, you indeed already lost as killer at this point but stll have to bask in the glory of survivors going for some low risk saves.
Again, if there was regression of some kind, it would be a lot more balanced, it would ask for survivors to maybe leave 1 behind at the door so it can be opened making it a lot more high stakes to get the person on the hook, as it should be.
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It's more than just postponing the timer. A lot of the time, survivors do think that there is a possibility that the killer is camping a hooked survivor, and they need time to get them. Or perhaps they (and I am being serious here....) for some reason are running Blood Warden.
If you played Survivor for any amount of time, then maybe you'd actually understand their mentality. I did it, and I became a much better killer because of it.
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I agree, because they do not test for higher ranks where this would matter most.
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Just open the gate by yourself, boomer
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You can disagree, but that was the entire point of EGC. Preventing hostage situations.
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Feel like the big thing is people just dont see the true purpose of the end game collapse, which is to bring the game to an end. Its main purpose isnt to kill anyone. A killer isnt anymore set back by a 99ed gate NOW than they were by an open gate before EGC was introduced. The only real change being its intended purpose, which is to let the killer end the game in instances where the last survivor is spending the next half hour hiding in a bush.
You also can't blame people for playing around perks, in this case blood warden. Just like I might wait an extra second before hitting an injured survivor just incase of dead hard, survivors will do similar things like hop in a locker just incase of BBQ, cleanse dull totems just incase of NOED or in this case...not fully open the gate just incase of blood warden.
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Add skill checks to the gates. 😂😂😂
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Opening the door as killer is a surrender mechanic.
"Gtfo, heres the open door with red carpet"
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It does take the sting out of Bloodwarden. It also makes the EGC feel a little less intense if survivors wait until all are safe before opening the gates.
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I play both sides and I understand why they do it.... like thats like saying "I understand why killers use ruin, or why survivors take DS".
The point is they should not be able to just avoid the endgame collapse and give themselves all the time in the world from a point ot supreme safety by 99ing the doors, that is the issue.
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got something to back that up with?
and again, if it was then it would be a set timer, the devs made this entire mechanic of slowing down the timer when a survivor is downed or on a hook, why?
because its more then just preventing a hostage situation...
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Exactly!
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The devs said that was the point when they introduced it. The timer is there to get people out once the gate is open. That's it. It slows when someone is down to give the others time to save. If it bugs you as killer just open the damn door and force the issue. Just because you don't like people 99ing the doors doesn't mean it needs changed.
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I mean, I'm all for killer buffs and I think this game is heavily favouring survivors, but imho 99%ing exit gates is fine.
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You’re opening the wrong book. Survivors and dickriders will come into this and say you’re wrong. This game is pathetic that it’s so heavily favored towards Survivors.
EGC is meant to put pressure on Survivors, but... hooking or putting a survivor into the dying state slows the timer. So this is yet again, another second chance for survivors.
I mean, cmon BHVR. You have insanely large maps, nerf every viable killer, arm survivors with X amount of second chance and speed perks, and then to add fuel to the fire, during EGC the timer is 2 minutes standard with a slowdown per hooked or dying survivor. 🤦🏽♂️ This game. I used to play a lot now I can tolerate maybe 1-2 matches of killer before getting off. And all my friends quit.
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99% the gate is fine, the killer can open it and use bloodwarden too, so.
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"hEavIly FAvOrIng"
People still don't get it?
Over 50% kill rate means nothing compared to your wisdom
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You were expecting praise for that one, huh?
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Yes adding egc collapse gives survivors a second chance. How again?
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The only real reason anyone really does this is to avoid Blood Warden foremost. It's just an altruism suicide to go back if someone is caught when the gates are powered. Most times, the killer will camp, and if they don't, they likely have NOED to make this stage even more threatening to any overly altruistic survivors trying to "leave no one behind".
If NOED is in play, I virtually don't wander from the exit gate to save someone unless it's nearby and I can destroy it. 99-ing the gates is your last ditch effort to see if a rescue is viable.
I don't know about anyone else, but unless I know for sure the killer is distracted, my heart is pounding on opening the gate. I've died a lot trying to open one and get out.
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I’m sorry, did you miss what I said? EGC having a slowdown because a survivor is hooked or in dying state is a second chance. It wouldn’t be if the timer wasn’t affected or if it sped up considering that would actually put pressure on the survivors.
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This is a great example of someone having a complaint but not being able to understand the full scope of the 'problem" their "complaint" addresses.
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It's just there so survivors eventually leave. It's not there to aid you any further bud.
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What are you talking about “bud?” I said EGC gives survivors a second chance BECAUSE it slows the timer of EGC when a survivor is hooked or dying. I never said anything about it being an aid to a killer. So, let’s assume something else? Bud.
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You want egc to give you free pressure though?
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Even as survivor I hate when other survivors 99 the gates. If I see a team mate 99 a gate, I run up and open it. I've died more times because of that stupid gate 99ing crap than not.
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The survivor bias continues to flourish
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That scenario really isn't survivor bias. Run remember me if you don't want them to open the gate quick. Or open it yourself if you want a blood warden play. I agree they do show survivor bias a lot of the time, but in this case, you do have all the tools you need to fix your own problem.
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EGC is pressure for both sides. There’s no “free pressure” my guy. Both sides have a 2 minute timer, but when a killer does their job in EGC they are penalized by a slowdown that aids survivors with the chance to save their teammate or make it to a gate. are you really not realizing how that’s favorable to a survivor more than a killer? EGC should be straightforward. Bam 2 minute timer thats it. BHVR indirectly penalizes a killer with additional time to survivors for a killer hooking or downing a survivor.
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I mean, survivors get a lot of stuff for free. On a much larger scale than killer.
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No they're just making sure killers get no free pressure.
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This was actually tested early on when the EGC was being created. It wasn't the most interesting gameplay, and it removed some of the teamwork close calls around the exit gates. People who were communicating could also just have someone stand there and keep the gate ready to open without starting the EGC. We ultimately decided against it.
The survivors are still under pressure to get that save as soon as possible, though. That hooked survivor will die before the collapse unless someone saves them. Whether the EGC has started or not, they still need to make their move as soon as possible. If you really want to EGC to start for some reason, you can always open the gate yourself. Otherwise you can basically consider the gate open and play accordingly.
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You want EGC to be fair then remove the slow down for downed or hooked Survivors. You indirectly give survivors yet another chance.
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Your bias stands out. I’m done with you.
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There's no other reason for you wanting egc to kill faster.
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My God bro. You’re just putting words in my texts. I never said anything about giving killers free pressure or giving a faster kill. R-E-A-D
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The EGC is not intended to give you kills, it's intended to end the game and prevent people from hanging around after the match is over. If you have nobody on the hook, it ends in two minutes. If you do have someone, the timer slows down to give them a chance to make a save.
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Point proven right there. You added yet another method to give survivors another chance to escape. You clearly can’t read either, nothing I said is about kills.
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@Peanits are you able to confirm if we're getting the update/next Tome tomorrow or Wednesday? Or is that still undecided?
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They gave survivors "yet another method to give survivors another chance to escape" because, like Peanits said, it isn't meant to be there for lethality. EGC is a way to prevent hostage situations. Nothing more, nothing less. Therefore if nobody gets downed the game is guaranteed to end. If they do, then the game is prolonged but is still guaranteed to end. Its unfair if you can literally just down someone and 2 minutes later they're dead. If it was meant for lethality, they would have designed it as such, but right now it fits its purpose. If it was designed to kill people, then the timer wouldn't pause. But it isn't. It's designed to give both players a chance for some last-minute plays and give a chance for more kills or escapes. Survivors are under pressure to escape before the timer hits 0, killers know that they have 2 minutes to kill people, or can prolong that time with a down or hook, leading to more.
Just because it gives survivors a chance doesn't mean its survivor sided.
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Just noticed, but the new Entity-like background and the black icon look sick ! Can I get some of that goodness too 😚? I can totally become a community manager 😏.
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