Lobby Dodging VS Disconnecting in match (would love a Dev response)
If I understand correctly the new DC penalties are to punish people that disconnect in a match simply because they don't like the way the match is going. The rationale is that disconnecting is unfair to the rest of the people in the match. I 100% agree this needed to be done.
I posted a thread yesterday about queue times on PS4 and had people started commenting on it how when they play killer and they get stuck in a lobby they don't like because of the amount of survivors with toolboxes or whatever reason they just dodge it. Toolboxes are part of the game. The rationale behind dodging in this situation is no different than the rationale of disconnecting in a match. They don't like something so they dodge. Dodging is still disconnecting. It's just done in the lobby instead of the match. It's just as unfair to the people you dodged as disconnecting in match. Sometimes it's more unfair because you may end up waiting 30 minutes or more for your lobby to fill again.
Why does lobby dodging get a free pass when it's done for exactly the same reason as disconnecting?
Comments
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Because lobby dodging shouldn't be hurting anyone.
If there weren't a shortage of players to match with at Red Ranks, nobody would care because it wouldn't take long to get in a match. Also, because you lose nothing when someone dodges.
If you don't want to get dodged, I have found that not bringing four toolboxes increases your chances.
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or a key
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It is more difficult to see keys, but if I see toolboxes, I think "oh, its gonna be one of these games."
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Game hasn't started yet. I know lobby simulator is a boring hobby but no one loses anything game wise if someone dodges.
I will be honest here. I dodge 4 matching blendettes. Sorry. Not my thing.
But I've disconnected 1 time as survvior and it was because the game was unplayable due to connection. To be fair i should have searched a new lobby then.
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If you can't see the difference between the two things then i'm not sure a discussion on the matter is going to solve anything. I play on ps4. The wait is actually finding a lobby. Even if you have 10 killers dodge your lobby it adds about an extra minute to starting the game. And try not bringing keys or toolboxes if you keep getting dodged. Even the devs realize tool boxes are broken which is why they are reworking them.
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Lets forever stay in 3 man lobbys cuz the fourth player will never show up... btw if you dont like long queue times how about play Killer its super fun and easy and it would also answer your questions by playing it yourself for a while :D
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Because you're in a lobby, not in a game
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Well picture this: red ranks, I have a bubba daily. I start the match, see a yui and down her with the saw, hook her in the basement.
2 gens pop, I go into a chase with a feng, it takes a bit but down the feng, hook her. 2cgens pop. Find the last feng, final gen pops and its game over.
10000 points for me 16000 for the person scoring the highest ,wow what a fun game!
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For all the responses that say just don't bring keys or toolboxes..... I don't. So if they get nerfed, changed, gotten rid of or anything else that's fine. But for now they are part of the game and within the rules to use. So lobby dodging because you don't want to play against people that use them is no different than someone quitting in game because they don't like how it's going.
But these are the hypocritical responses I expected. As long as something is to your benefit you really don't care if it inconveniences someone else. The moment someone does something that inconveniences you though..... that is just wrong. I mean seriously. If a killer should be able to dodge a lobby because they don't like that survivors brought toolboxes then survivors should be able to DC in game because the killer is slugging or camping, and for the record I don't think slugging or camping justifies a DC. Lobby dodging is done because someone doesn't like the way their lobby looks even though the people in the lobby aren't breaking any rules just like people slugging or camping aren't breaking any rules.
Post edited by mmain on1 -
Unless you are on XBOX, killers dodging the lobby has no affect on you. The lobby doesn't close and you and your friends/randoms sit and wait for the next killer to join.
DCing once the match starts takes away from those left behind the wait time to find and start the match. If it was a survivor that DC'd, having to face a killer with one less teammate.
It seems to me those that DC only concern themselves with their fun and not the others playing in the match.
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I get that isn't fun. That is why they are looking at changing the way toolboxes work and such. I didn't claim it is fun. But when survivors complain that it's no fun to have a killer slug everyone because it's no fun they get told it's part of the game and just move on to the next match. The same thing applies here. It's part of the game.
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I play on PS4. Had a killer dodge my lobby last night after waiting 25 minutes because the other 3 survivors all had toolboxes. I waited another 25 minutes for another killer. So, yes it affects you on other platforms as well.
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Game's not over sweetie
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A game with 3 chases total, is that in any way fun? I found it boring, and it seems that survivors don't want to be chased anymore just power through gens
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You still got kills though? How could the game be more fun than that?
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I did get one kill because nobody saved the yui, the game should be interactive with lots of chases and back and forth
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You also had the choice to requeue.
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Okay, but you only got 3 chases in 5 gens, that's likely almost entirely your fault. I get 3 chases in like 2 minutes.
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Lobby dodging is way less "annoying" than it used to be anyway.
It used to be like... you load into a lobby, killer decides they want to dodge so you get sent back to the main menu. If you were SWF you gotta invite everyone all over again and then go through another queue. If another survivor left the lobby sometimes it even made it a "cursed lobby" where you sit around waiting for #4 forever and you eventually decided to leave as well. From the post earlier in the thread I assume this is still the case on Xbox?
Now SWF no longer need to re-invite eachother all the time (unless the game gets confused and people have to restart because someone is permanently "in match lobby" or something), and if the killer dodges the survivors stay in the lobby waiting for another killer which usually doesn't take long at all.
Someone that genuinely dodge for a LOT of reasons only really have any impact on themselves. If it's some less common reason to dodge like 2 flashlights or a cosmetic the killer doesn't want to play against for some reason it won't take long to get a killer that doesn't care. And if the survivors insist on going in with 4 toolboxes or whatever they can just last second switch anyway.
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I've done that when killers dodge too. On PS4 you are still highly likely to end up waiting a long time for another match
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How would you feel if you waited that long for a match just for one of your teammates to DC because the killer down them first? Or the killer DCing because you popped too many gens too quickly?
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I'm on PS4. During the evening/night time hours I wait at bare minimum 10 minutes for a match. It's not uncommon to wait 30. Occasionally I even wait 40 minutes or so. When a killer dodges because they don't like the lobby the wait time is going to start all over again. I may wait another 30 to 40 minutes because a killer didn't like the lobby.
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I don't like those things either. As I said in my original post I think the DC penalty was needed because people DC when things don't go their way.
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Good for you, you are probably a dbd pro player. I am just a regular red rank killer who was using bubba for my daily
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Nothing wrong with dodging 4 matching Blendettes. The health of your eyes is more important than the wait time for a match.
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I'll admit I based what I said on my own experience and I play on PC, in your situation it's still obviously an annoying and time-consuming thing 😟
For me personally the inability to dodge wouldn't really matter as I don't do it in the first place, but I know a lot of players feel very differently. For reasons ranging from fairly common and understandable to very strange reasons that are probably based on experiences they've had personally before.
I guess it's like with DC penalties for survivors - if players really don't want to play they can just suicide on hook. A killer that really doesn't want to play would just face a wall and afk if they can't dodge or DC. Not really any really good solutions without any clear downsides that I can think of.
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We aren't looking to punish leaving a lobby at this time. There are reasons why someone might have to leave a lobby (e.g. They forgot to select an archives challenge, they realized they aren't ready or have max BP, they see someone in the lobby that has caused issues in the past, etc.).
If someone does dodge a lobby, that lobby remains open on dedicated servers and is pushed to the front of the queue, so it should fill back up very quickly.
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Thanks for the response. I do get there could be reasons to avoid a lobby for the things you mentioned. Although I doubt that is the majority of them. If you read these forums you see people all the time talking about dodging a lobby because of toolboxes, Claudettes, and flashlights. There is someone that has already commented on this thread and said they dodge because of Claudettes. I mean there are legit reasons to DC in a match too, but legit reasons aren't the majority of those either.
As for the dedicated server thing.... my wait times have increased significantly ever since PS4 went to a dedicated server. It was extremely rare that I waited longer then 10 minutes for a match whether someone lobby dodged or not before the dedicated servers. Most of the time it was 5 or less. Ever since they have been implemented I'm lucky if my lobby time is only 10 minutes. The majority of the time it is around 20 minutes. If I get 2 matches in an hour now I'm doing well.
The amount of time I spend playing this game has decreased dramatically since the dedicated servers on the PS4 because:
1) I just don't get as many matches when I do play
2) I can no longer just sit down if I have a few minutes and play a quick game. Since the implementation of the dedicated servers on PS4 there is no longer such a thing as a quick game for me.
That's why lobby dodging is such a huge issue, at least for me. Just 1 lobby dodge is an almost guarantee that I am going to have 30 minutes or more in a lobby waiting for just 1 match.
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I agree with you. There may not be easy solutions. As much as I think the DC penalties are needed there are going to be times everyone is going to be penalized because of a connection issue. That may not be fair, but I am happy to live with it if it diminishes the amount of people that DC. If they want to fix the fact that my wait time between matches is usually double the amount of time I spend in matches maybe it won't be an issue. Until then......
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Because huge difference between game and lobby. Lobby dodging is a right any killer or survivor must have.
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Yeah, what happens to survivors that can't see the name of the killer who has caused issues in the past? Survivors just have to put up and deal with it. But Killers have the ability to exercise discretion and decide to dodge a Lobby if it contains a Survivor, they dislike for whatever reason.
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I agree it's a right that everyone should have. I just think it gets abused and there should be something put in place that makes it happen less.
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The same applies to both sides.
Survivors can leave if they see a fellow survivor that has sandbagged them in the past.
Killers can leave if there's a survivor that has harassed them in the past.
There's no favourites here, please don't try to infer that we're picking favourites when we're not.
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Exactly. Killers get to lobby dodge because they don't want to play with Claudettes or a team with toolboxes. If they can dodge for those reasons why don't survivors get to see which killer they are going against and dodge if they don't want to play against that particular killer. It would be the same thing.
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It's not really the same. As a survivor I can dodge other toxic survivors if I want. However, I get no option to dodge a killer that has harassed me in the past (and it has happened) because survivors don't get to see what killer they are going against. So, no... the same doesn't apply. If I get stuck with that killer that has harassed me in the past I have no choice but to play against that killer.
Plus a killer can dodge a lobby if they simply don't want to play against Claudettes or toolboxes because they get to see those things. As a survivor you don't get to dodge a lobby because you don't want to play against a Jason or whatever killer you don't like since we can't see the killer.
It may be the same in that both killers and survivors can dodge a lobby, but survivors don't get the choice to dodge just because they don't like the killer they are going against.
Post edited by mmain on5 -
Yea I dodge specific players and for good reasons. I am NOT going to play with these people EVER and you can't force me to.
Lobby dodging is fine. Whenever the devs get around to updating the matchmaking it won't even be an issue, because you dodge only to have another killer come fill the slot right away.
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Ok. I get that. You dodge certain people. You aren't dodging Claudettes or toolboxes. I can understand that. That's the best reason I've seen to say lobby dodging should be a thing. My question would be this though. What about the killers that I have good reason to not want to play against? I have no choice, but to play against them because I don't get to see who the killer is until after the match. In other words why should survivors be forced to play against killers they have good reason to not play against?
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On Xbox we can see the name of the killer player by going to our recent players about 10-20 seconds into the lobby. And yes I dodge these same players when they are killer too. This is something the devs can't even stop, because it's part of the platform.
IMO the game should just show you the name of the killer you are up against in the lobby. No one should have to play against someone they don't like. This isn't Overwatch where your rank/MMR fluctuates based on other players. Therefore you should not be forced to play against anyone you don't want to. Doesn't matter the reason honestly.
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The lobby literally stays open until another killer shows up. If you still waiting that long its more of a "there are not enough killers" problem than an lobby dodge should be punished problem ROFL.
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I don't think you can find out who the killer is before starting the match on PS4. If so I've never seen it or even seen anyone say how you can do it.
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Perhaps. All I can say is my long waits didn't start happening until the PS4 got dedicated servers. So, if the lack of killers on PS4 coincided with the exact day the dedicated servers were implemented then you may well be right. Regardless I still say you shouldn't get to dodge a lobby because you don't want to play with Claudettes or toolboxes. If so, survivors should get to see if they are facing a Jason, Freddy, or whoever and if they don't want to play against them they can dodge.
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The game hasn't started yet, I can dogde whoever I like thanks. Your Lobby Stays Open. The problem you espouse literally does not exist.
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Most people I dogde on my region because they want to use 2-4 toolboxes a match I get paired with them again at least 4x again right next after dodging until Im forced to use a green or ebony mori to teach them how fun is to use toolboxes.
Just dont bring more than 1 of an OP item and you should not be dodged. The game isnt that hard that you need that much of a help. If you insist on it, just be prepared to get tunneled, camped or executed during the match... just saying.
And DCing is nothing like dogding on any level. DCing hurt the actual match for survivors and killers. It only dont hurt survivors when its for someone to get the hatch, otherwise its pretty much the worst thing you can do as a teamate and as such it should be punished. If a killer think he doesnt like the odds or dont want to play sweaty or scummy because of it, he dodges, there is nothing in common, he is actually doing a favor to you.
You also have to remember there is such a thing as chests in every trial, so there is almost a 33% chance you will find a toolbox in one of those in my experience.
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The real issue is to make people feel less like lobby dodging yet despite hundreds of posts over how badly balanced higher ranks gets there has been very little done to help..its been going the opposite way in fact, so it's not too surprising..at least a lobby dodge doesnt result in lost points, pips, and stressful games so you cant really compare the two
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Yes my lobby stays open. However, I will very llikely wait 20 or 30 minutes for another killer when I waited that long for the one that dodged. So my problem does exist but thanks for playing.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. If they could make some fixes with wait times and balancing maybe lobby dodging wouldn't be such a problem. But for those of us that have long waits between matches lobby dodging may mean you wait an hour for a single match.
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Do you really want the killer who dodged you to instead be forced to play a match with you? Because all they'll do is go afk somewhere on the map while you play gen repair sim. You won't interact with the killer, you'll waste offerings on a match where you get no altruism and little to no boldness, you may de-pip, and within a few minutes you'll be right back in the lobby waiting. You can't force the killer to participate in a match.
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Okay. So if you don't play enough to know how to play correctly, why is it a problem you lost? I know Bubba is a bad killer, and maybe you got a bad map, but it's somewhat surprising you ended up with only 10k.
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IF, and I think that is a big if, they actually did that I wouldn't want to play against them, but I don't think most would actually do that. I mean as a survivor main I hate playing against Ghostface, but I don't just quit and sit in a corner and let him kill me. I still try. I think most killers would still try even in that situation. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Hooray, I can be punished for pressing triangle by accident. Great job, and if the survivors reallllly want to bring in 4 toolboxes or be all blendettes they can always switch before the 5 second mark. If there is an obvious trend of what is being dodged there is most likely a good or valid reason to it being dodged.
I personally stopped dodging a while back. I remember i saw 4 toolboxes so i went in with my main and a bunch of good stuff, they used 2 hook distance addons but i chose my own map which was autohaven. I expected either insane gen rush or just a sabo squad. What happened was them being destroyed so quickly i purposely let them get back on their feet. 1 gen done and a 4k, this is why i don't care about toolboxes or items in general. If I play well i can still win.
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