Abusing breakdown should be bannable.
Please anyone of power explain the difference to me using fair logic how legions player got banned for infinite mending but people abusing breakdown to permanently destroy 3 hooks per person isn't?
Like space coconut puts it wonderfully, this was either an intentional shadow buff or it's double standards and killers are allowed to be treated unfairly because they're one player having to have a horrible experience but when it was legion it was four even though either way it's apparently a mistake on the devs part that's being exploited.
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I rather want devs to focus on bugs then us having to report players when we know nothing will be done about it I think they should always priorities fixing big bugs that are gameplay changing
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This isn't the definitive answer (because the Legion issue was 2 years ago, and things have changed a lot since then) but from what I remember with that particular bug, the matches were effectively held hostage as it took so long to mend. In this case with Breakdown matches can still end, the player will still bleed out even if they can't be hooked.
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To be fair this double standard isn't new. During the period the wake up bug was active the game became unplayable and they still decided that there would be no consequences for abusing it
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Players have not been banned from using bug exploits for a while now and the main reasoning is not everyone knows about the bug and they would be banning for people simply using the perk.
Both sides have been banned in the past for doing such things in the past. It did not happen just once with the legion scenario so its not a double standard. Players keep bringing up the legion scenario but others bugs which benefited killer have happened and no one was banned.
The scenario that makes some sense would be to deactivate perks or addons etc when they are bugged but at the same time this can also remove data they may need to help find why it's happening and fix it quicker.
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And what if they run No Mither with it? Maybe even with soul guard?
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You're still limited to a 4-minute bleed out timer regardless of which perks you run.
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But by running perks like power struggle, no mither, soul guard, boil over, etc. it effectively makes it the same thing. It is different from back then, in that survivors have more perks to effectively exploit this. Survivors very well still could hold the match hostage if they chose to do so. It's why people are running no mither, so that they'll be on the ground as little as possible. Sure in theory they will bleed out eventually, but the game will still be many times longer than if it weren't with the exploit. Claiming legion's held the match hostage isn't exactly true either. Saying it like that paints the legions as players only exploiting to make the survivors have a bad time, when in reality it just made for an easy win. Most simply weren't watching and laughing while they mended, they were downing and hooking, ending the game and making a bad experience for survivors.
Survivors are doing the same thing, holding the game hostage isn't the problem, it's that it makes it unfairly difficult for killers to win and it's because of a "bug" from the devs that survivors are abusing. A swf using this can take the game hostage and it will take a very long time for the killer to be able to "win" while it's being exploited, they won't simply wait on the ground and let themselves to bleed out, they'll get up even in front of the killer if they have soul guard and gens will get done much quicker because of it. There's no difference in what you're saying, a legion would've killed survivors while they're forced to mend and the survivors would've done gens while the killer is unable to hook anyone.
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On the other side of the coin
Everykiller is swinging through pallets as they know they cannot get stunned because of the pallet bug
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So the solution is constantly slug them while they constantly pick themselves back up?
I can understand Breakdown alone not being a bannable offence, but when using it with No Mither where there is very little the killer can do, I think it should be.
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Please name a scenario where it was actively avoidable. When you say it like that I can't help but try to remember where a perk was broken and abused for some time without it being bannable. The way you're speaking reminds of the pallet stun bug, which was impossible for the killers to avoid, it was a base mechanic that couldn't be changed, what I'm referring to is perks and add-ons that are bugged and exploitable of which please remind of some. The legion is one of the best examples so that's why it's commonly used. There's also the 2-killer in a match, which while fun because of the cool mechanic it had it was fairly a bannable offense.
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I don't think the devs need to ban people for bugged perks. They just need to disable perks/addons when they are broken in a way that hurts the game. They already do so for maps with gamebreaking issues.
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That's one option. Or try to carry them towards a section of the map with hooks. As killer you should have a ton of warning that they're running Breakdown too, so you can also just start camping the hook early if they're clearly trying to exploit the bug. With the Legion bug there wasn't much you could do other than suffer through it or DC.
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I mean, can't the whole "not everyone knows" thing be easily alleviated by making an in-game notification on the news prompt?
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Pretty sure that's confirmation bias, killers swing for pallets either way. Any will gladly take a health state in exchange for getting a hit. I know I haven't just been swinging at pallets even with the bug. There's no gain in swinging through a pallet every time, survivors will just predict this and not throw the pallet down. Only when a killer believes there'll get the hit will they actually swing.
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Additionally, the perks, offerings, and even items brought into the trial can hint at what they're intending. If they're running breakdown because they like it but they're the only survivor using it and no other perks compliment, it'd be reasonable to assume it's a mistake rather than they're exploiting a bug. On the other hand if all survivors are running it with oak offerings, no mither, soul guard, etc. then it's near guaranteed they know what they're doing.
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Tbh i just full send thru pallets... always have wayy before the bug
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what breakdown bug? I run it on some characters and I've seen nothing wrong with it.
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This is the actual solution that most studios that aren't dysfunctional use.
You want to avoid discouraging players from finding bugs and exploits by banning them if they share them, and it isn't on players to understand more nuanced 'is it really an explpit or a result of combined game features?' question. It is on Devs to make the game work.
BHVR probably won't do this because their priorities are pretty whack though and they like being able to ignore bugs.
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It actually does cause he is wrong, as mandy explained already
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His overall point of it being a problem that's seemingly not a priority to be fixed is still completely correct
I believe the only reason people don't get banned for things like this is because it's very easy for people to fall back on the excuse of "i didn't know it was bugged" and there's no way to prove otherwise.
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True plus they only priority is money which is normal for every studio and company but for that u gotta make functional game if there's something that's broken do best to fix it if u need time at least disable option to use broken thing like I don't think disableing breakdown perk should be huge job to do
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Legion can still end the game in that case, either by the survivors falling down and bleeding out, or them being hooked. Its not like it stopped the survivor from dying so the game was not being held hostage.
The same is true with this bug, especially when survivors run No Mither. If all of them are running No Mither, and they have eliminated hooks from one side of the map, you literally can't pick them up and you can't leave them and they can effectively extend the game well over an hour and you have no control over it. You could run to the basement and do nothing and its all in the survivors control. The legion bug was still in survivors control, because they could choose to just die.
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Bad reason when compared to the legion bug, the mend bug didn't stop you from just dying and bleeding out. Not saying it is a good thing but it still is comparable here, if the survivors all run no mither you literally can't pick them up and you can't leave them and they can effectively extend the game well over an hour and you have no control over it. You could run to the basement and do nothing and its all in the survivors control. The legion bug was still in survivors control, because they could choose to just die.
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Stops hooks from respawning.
I haven't encountered it yet.
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You can really tell coconut has started their propaganda video's again.
Really something for him to search for something that happened 2 years ago to desperatly try and prove how biased the devs are.
Also didn't people get banned for using wake up too when it was bugged?
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I don't think his intention is to spread anti-bhvr propaganda
He's trying to highlight a serious problem here, that for some reason people have been given a tacit okay to abuse something that's extremely busted. How's that a good decision on BHVR's part?
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Ah right, his typical killer victim complex is putting things as they are: how do you know it's not a priority? Maybe figuring out what caused it isn't as easy considering they didn't even touch hooks or that perk since the patch the bug appeared in. Remember the hill bug where survivors would get stuck? How long did it take to fix that? Three weeks/a month? Or right now the pallet bug which is NOT fixed. But these are survivors bugs right, so even though they're not fixed yet he doesn't mention them because they don't fit his victim complex
So here it is again, whenever space coconut says something:
All we know is that they're working on them and that they've been historically slow at fixing stuff
Post edited by Mandy on3 -
They deserve flak for not fixing the pallet bug, I agree with you about that
But I'd like to reiterate what I said in a post just before, he's trying to highlight a problem here that players have been given a tacit okay to abuse something that's broken about the game.
Also, I say it's not a priority because it's been a month+ and it's still not fixed despite being reported. He even shows proof of this in his video
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There were spots survivors could land by jumping out windows or simply running off objects and some got banned for it in the past as they were recorded doing it. Some were on purpose and some by accident. There have been perma bans for such things and in some cases they were taken back as not everyone knew what they were doing.
Some bugs also allowed killers to get to places not intended and these were not banable.
We can't take what happened in the past as it was done to both sides.
The two killer bug was before the legion addon one and the legion one as far as I remember was the last one to be overall banned for and basically as Mandy said because many things have changed thus also has how they view these bugs. If something can be used or done with out knowing by means of a bug it leaves it open to the mods having to decide if someone did it on purpose or not.
Yes and no as it takes more than a pop up.
How often do people read the news or what pops up on the screen? It would need at least an acknowledgement option like a tick boxwhetre you have to scroll down and accept you have read it. Even then it's not guaranteed someone will read it.
As I said maybe they need players to run it to be able to gather data to find what is causing the bug. If not disabling the perk until it is fixed would be the only logical solution.
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Another bug was uncleansable totem bug, first on Lery's and then Coldwind. Both took months to fix. Those maps were never disabled, no one was banned for running NOED since it'd be guaranteed dull totem by end of match or other hex totems that couldn't be cleansed if spawned there.
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I'd say a check box is a great idea. If they check the box without reading the prompt, it's entirely their fault.
And I imagine they can figure out what's causing the bug on their own end without neccesarily needing it out in the open.
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Why not disable the perk until the bug is fixed?
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That first bit is a very fair point. These are definitely closer than I considered.
Breakdown is still a lot more counterable, though. If everyone's running no Mither and you see the first survivor that gets unhooked is running Breakdown, just proxy camp the second survivor you hook. They're all injured so they shouldn't be able to go for the save, and killing that survivor on their first hook means you'll only need to lose one hook to them, just like if you sacrificed them normally. If the game is actually going to take an hour that means the survivors are ignoring gens and the killer is not playing well. Like eventually even a base M1 killer will make most of the map a dead zone and you'll be able to carry survivors towards the basement, down them quickly when they wiggle, and rinse and repeat until they're hooked. You shouldn't need to wait for their bleed out timer.
It's obviously still not a good situation though. Hopefully it's patched soon.
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Permanent sabo is ok...
would you be fine with someone using cheats to get that result ? Because i dont see the difference as this is an exploit in itself
It ruins the game as killer. It stops you doing your objective and makes life so much harder. Seeing a team abusing this you either suffer through exploits or you waste 5-10 minutes of your free time going afk and hope the survivors just leave rather than troll, but BHVR threatens to ban people for going afk anyway
Imagine that. Seriously imagine that. “Play against these exploiters, and cheaters, and hackers, DONT YOU DARE GO AFK YOU LET THEM HAVE THEIR FUN YOU HEAR ME??”
Thats the company line. Its disgusting. I seriously hope this is the last game BHVR ever has success with because the double standards and excuses are revoltin
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People didn't get banned for wake up, no. There were Quentins everywhere and several times there were three wake up users (the survivor not using it being me, I don't play killer when this kind of crap is going on)
It'll happen with a killer perk at some point. They'll make some minor adjustments to one of Kate's cosmetics and that will somehow cause play with your food to never lose stacks or agitation to increase movement speed to 300% or something. When that does happen they can either start banning for it and cause a killer outcry (a justified one in this case) or they can just let the other side be unplayable for however long until they bother fixing it.
Or they could put in a way to disable perks and addons which they should've done years ago when wake up and legion blades happened.
Also yes calling this a shadowbuff is ridiculous
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But the legion bug survivors could just bleed out too though.
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Having to decide between bleeding out intentionally or being stuck in the game forever means that if you get hit once the game is over. That is very different from the bug with Breakout.
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I disagreed with how the Legion thing was handled, so I guess I'm glad if the policy has changed so that running something bugged is no longer enough, in itself, to ban someone. FWIW, one of the things that came out during the Legion incident was that the devs don't have the ability to disable specific add-ons in the live game -- I'm willing to believe they can't disable perks, either (maps would be simpler to disable, so it makes sense that they can turn off maps but not perks or add-ons).
In the meantime, though, you should still be able to report people if you have more evidence against them than just the fact that they were running Breakdown. Just because it's not clear in every case that someone's exploiting it on purpose doesn't mean it's not clear in any case.
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You can't really expect the devs to ban every killer using any hex perks. Breakdown is one perk while there are many many hex ones.
It shouldn't have taken so long to fix it though.
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Want it fixed? Stop playing Killer. If nobody is playing killer there is no game thus forcing the fix much faster. Personally Ive been on a DBD break while playing outriders. :D
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I was on a DBD break because of the pallet bug, but hearing about this breakdown bug makes come back and bust out my taxi build. :P
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I havent played killer when playing DBD either nothing but survivor since this bug. Its a breeze when playing now, no stress. I should just put in my application to become a Entitled Survivor main.
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Most recent bug that comes to mind is all the killers running basement build and black screening survivors when being hooked there, they didn't ban for that and shouldn't ban for this but should fix it immediately, it's like the forum is unaware that there have been major game breaking bugs for both sides since legion that the devs haven't banned for, they're just ignoring everything inbetween and saying "look you did ban us for exploiting something that's broken".
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I remember that one vividly as well, I kept forgetting about it and putting survivors in the basement then realising when they just stayed in there and feeling very very guilty :(
That would've been harder to either ban for or disable than any perk or addon related one I guess. But agreed I don't think the "devs leave bugs for OUR side in on purpose because they hate us" attitude is helpful at all
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just like how killers were banned using sloppy butcher on wraith? or when tinkerer used to remove your terror radius for the entire match?
they should just disable the perk for now, or something along those lines
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No, more like you're playing normally and you don't get the pallet stun by coincidence, not intentionally.
You play normally and because the pallets are broken, you sometimes don't get stunned. People aren't intentionally doing this to avoid pallet stuns.
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I see you haven't played against people with SWF and no mither.
And btw, people could still die with the Legion issue. Thing is survivors couldn't win. Same as how it's now with killers with the key bug and breakdown bug.
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Care to explain how survivors going out of their way to take away available hooks is NOT taking the game hostage? Is it because of basement?
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Why did it take such little time for a announcement that jflicking- which actually takes skill- to be called an exploit that will be gone soon. BUT this breakdown exploit (I am sure the devs can see their stats, that breakdown was basically NEVER USED until this whole bug happened.) has yet to be even talked about? Breakdown was never ran, ever. Now you have 4 person swfs all bringing it and somehow, some way, this is not a red flag?
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Are you trying to compare an EXPLOIT, something that is brought into the game to screw over the killer to something the killer has NO controller over? This perk was never ran till now. Now it is ran to cheat, that is what it should be called. Me hitting a survivor thru a pallet is not MY choice. It is the update. I do not like getting unfair hits or not getting stunned when I should. But breakdown is brought to cheat.
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