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Transparency
Can anyone give me a solid reason as to why we don't have more transparency from the devs on situations such as balancing, bug fixing, swf, general changes, and anything along those lines? I mean why can't the community be told what changes are being talked about and what those changes could be? Why is the community not more involved in what's happening to the game? I mean one example of why it would be great is the HUD changes that happened a while back. We were told nothing more than "it's coming" and when it hit, the majority of vocalisation was pure hatred for it and it then had to be adjusted and changed again. Could have easily avoided the extra work if we had just gotten some communication in the first place. Keeping things like that hidden to use as a surprise is toxic and manipulative behavior that anyone who understands basic psychology could understand.
Don't get me wrong, they can keep secrets about future killers and dlcs and such, but when they are changing fundamental parts of the game in such major ways without any input from the community first, it makes me wonder why.
Why can't we be told what changes are being talked about rather than just be told they're being talked about and possibly happening?
Comments
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Partly because every time we're transparent about what is being worked on people expect that to be implemented instantly into the game.
We had it with Object of Obsession rework and we had it this time with Ghostface & Legion - we never said they were coming this mid chapter just that they were the next killers to be looked at. And past history has shown this happening time and time again, which is why we're more hesitant in discussing things until we're more certain about what we're able to implement.
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Also happened with key rework... People will never be happy
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Ok, that's a fair point.
Why can't we have LONG ptbs of changes being talked about then? Make a very clear statement that any PTB with major changes is literally only for the sake of testing with the community and nothing is guaranteed in any way at all. So that the changes can at the very least be discussed among the players (and genuinely have the feedback given taken into account by the dev team) before simply being implemented into the game. Again, a perfect example of when this would have been useful and prevented a lot of extra work was the HUD changes. Why is there not a specific test server for this reason. You could absolutely change HUGE parts of the game just to be tested and played around with, and given tons of feedback to, without actually affecting the game until you've made a decision as to what you want or don't want to be a final change made. The bloodlust test was kind of that even just without the test server.
I feel like a like of problems could be handled before they even become problems if something like that were to be done. Maybe that takes a lot more work than I realize, but even still it would be a very healthy way to reach the community in a way that makes us feel connected and cared about
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You’re talking about the key rework that was as complex and hard to implement as making the hatch not spawn until one survivor is left. Yeah I can’t imagine why people are frustrated about that taking 15 light years for BHVR to do.
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Just another lazy "rework" just like the moris. They could have done something actually fun with both of those things and they just made them completely useless.
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I don’t worry, they said they’re “working on” making them an engaging mechanic, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
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To create that with those types of changes on things that we already know won't work for example is a massive amount of work - the huge programming element for one thing. It's not feasible or sustainable for the team.
We had the last mid chapter patch with an awful lot of changes in, that was very well received by the community and we did try to manage expectations there that this isn't something that could be done on a regular basis. When we make changes they're discussed, prototyped with internal testing, programmed, tested via QA etc. There's so much work that goes on behind the scenes that players are not aware of.
We're looking to implement a new Beta Tab (the one that's currently being tested on the PTB) that will help get things that we're working on tested easier - as well as give the added benefit that console users can also test out these features. It's not going to replace a full PTB for obvious reasons but it will help to test things like HUD changes etc.
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I'll believe it when I see it.
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Maybe they felt they had to rush a "lazy" rework with how the community was demanding one immediately.
I'm fine with criticizing what is implemented but when people are roaring for ANYTHING in a timely manner, they cant in the same time complain what they got when its rushed...
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I think that had more to do with the fact they said mori and keys would get a rework.
And as everyone is aware of both are going hand in hand with each other, bring a key in the game and you can bet your ass there will be a mori as well.
And both were annoying AF, which they know.
Instead of bringing out both reworks at the same time, the first did only the mori without any indication of when it was gonna happen.
It was just like "oh yeah, btw we changed the mori which goes in affect immediately"
And then it stayed really really really quiet about the key rework, even after all the outrage that they didn't do both at the same time.
That is 1 of the things they should've really been transparent about, and unfortunately they never did.
Which in my eyes as well as many others is that it makes it look like they don't care.
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I for one would just like a little info on how the Ghost Face/Legion reworks are going. How far along?....are they still in the "concept" stages? Will they be full reworks or just addon passes?....We heard that they are next but beyond that no news since the last dev livestream.
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@MandyTalk it would probably help if the people discussing the things was more accurate or detailed in what they was saying along with following updates.
A quick example split things up into these categories:
1.being worked on now and is like to come sooner or later
2. Acknowledged, being looked into and worked on abit. However number one section is first but are definitely going to happen in the future.
3. Things that were looking at but not concrete we will implement.
And then just keep those updated even if things havent gone unchanged. You could easily say "still being looked into, not currently in the works but will be at some point"
Biggest issue is we either hear nothing, hear something and then never kept updated and it's just a guess what's going on or we hear something and then was never told otherwise.
For example: early game "collapse" was spoke about, and the dropped and we wasnt told for a year odd later.
Keys and moris, one was done far ahead of the other. One wasnt given a warning while the other was.
And finally SBMM, escapes and kills.. that was disappointing when neither can show skill and was told that's not what was going to be used.
IMO clear honesty is always best, there will always be those that dont listen, but as long as you're giving info (where possible) and give updates on those it keeps people involved and inpart excited
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I for one really appreciated the OoO rework putting out feelers, it was nice to give input hopefully before it was at a point of no return like the ptb seems to be.
I can't speak on Ghostface or Legion, mostly because I forgot but also because it wasn't said to be at mid-chapter.
I do hope that the transparency becomes more frequent, hopefully if it does people will start to see difference in announcement for discussion v announcement for implementation.
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Which again brings us back to the situation of things that we're working on not making the light of day, the community get hyped about something that just doesn't work in practice or expects to have it instantly - we've been there before with so many things and the results keep happening the same way - every time we try to give transparency it's thrown back at us. In the past something has been mentioned where it's in the idea phase, something we're looking at - early game collapse for example, and then for whatever reason that doesn't come to fruition do you really think the community is accepting of it? Because that's not what we see from our point of view at all.
Every time we try to be transparent it goes the same way, it's not even an historical thing - as the whole Legion/Ghostface issue that happened shows that. We did try with this Dev Update and explain things that we're looking into with bridging the gap between solo's and swf, and looking into the MMR to improve that system....I'm honestly expecting the discussions to start in a few weeks "devs said this will be in the game, it's still not there, devs lied" etc etc etc. When we've not said when something will be implemented or even that it for certain will be implemented, but that we're looking into it - but many people will run with it and say "yes this is coming" so we tend to not give too much advance notice of things anymore and not say what's being worked on.
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I do fully get that, and like I said some people just dont listen or even pay attention to what's being said. A common thing still is people go on about how they're being matched with other grades for matchmaking even though it was made very clear grades have nothing to do with mmr/sbmm.
There will always be those people, but any true supporter values the honesty on openness of the developers I know I am. I will say some things aren't made clear enough if they're definitely being added or just being looked at.
For example I know certain maps are being updated, having heard anything from you guys or a tease etc. Which is a shame, info keeps us hyped!
Sadly the unpleasant ones get heard most often, doesn mean alot of us dont enjoy or appreciate you all for sharing stuff with us
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I can understand the not wanting to be completely transparent when you're met with backlash when you do.
And I understand that some things take a lot more time than others when being reworked or changed. There's coding, testing, fixing the bugs that come with changing code, testing it again, getting feedback, tweaking it based on that feedback, testing it again and so on.
A lot of players don't see that, and since we live in a time where people want instant gratification, it can get frustration.
But I think the biggest issue, mainly my issue, is when we're told that something is being changed, then we wait a year or more for that change, and then it's very underwhelming when we do finally get it.
End game collapse, I could understand that taking a while as it changed whole aspects of the game. And a lot of people were very happy with that change.
And then you have other instances, like the Mori and key change, where we're told that it's being looked at for change. We wait for almost a year for the change, and it's a simply movement of numbers from 1 hook state to 2. And that didn't even include key changes. We then had to wait almost another year for those changes, which created this imbalance. People get frustrated over stuff like that.
I'm excited at the fact that two of the killers that have the most problems are being looked at, but what's being looked at. Their numbers? Reworks? One of my biggest concerns due to past history, is that they'll be 'looked at' for over a year, and then they'll get changed to reduce legions fatigue by another second, or something underwhelming like that. That's where people get frustrated.
Now if you're reworking him almost completely, awesome! You do you boo. I don't even need updates. Just take your time to make sure it makes sense and is done right.
But I don't have knowledge of what's going on. Y'all are half in half out the transparency thing. Either be transparent or don't, but don't leave us on the hook lol.
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BHVR used to be slightly more open with the community (it is barely noticeable, but the difference is there) but they've made so many awful decisions, especially in more recent years, that it is best to announce something only when it is about to be released and deal with the backslash then, instead of announcing it earlier and having to deal with even more backlash.
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You mean the key rework that they had to change an achievement for?
On multiple platforms no less.
The process for that is not as simple as you would think. I'm actually amazed they went throught that effort to get rid of every bit of frustration keys could bring.
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Alright. I genuinely appreciate your answers. I feel like in the past, at least the answers I've seen given to other questions and comments, there's been a lot of circumventing or dodging the actual issue mentioned, but with these answers I feel like I've got a better understanding even if it's only a little better.
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I feel like this isn't a fair argument on both sides. On the dev side yes being more transparent is risky but it shouldn't be feared. On the other side as players You want transparency but you need to be okay with what you hear. If you don't like it that's fine but it's no excuse to jump down a dev teams throat because they aren't doing what YOU want. you're not the developer. Don't let trolls get to you guys. I play the game too and there are things that annoy me. I'm vocal about them but I don't demand that Changes be made when I want them. don't let a minority of players get to you.
If I had one complaint it would be that as cool as the Q&A videos are, the same questions are answered every stream without fail. Example shirtless Felix. That's a waste of a question yet it's been addressed the last 3 times. Anything to do with NFTs is just stupid but that's not my call.
We as players need to remember that it's not easy being a team on a game like this since it's never over, the work is ongoing and only so much can be done at a time.
the object of obsession change was handled well. so was the change to DS. people just didn't like what they heard.
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I feel for you and everyone else on the dev and management team. The DBD community is growing larger and larger; it's impossible to manage everyone's different expectations. Some want to know absolutely everything you're potentially doing, others would rather not get their hopes up unless it's coming for sure. Having either thrown back in your face sucks a lot and I'm sure leads to lots of internal frustration. Just know that you all are loved and appreciated for trying to appease such a wild and sometimes chaotic fanbase. I know it's not easy, and i'm sure fans don't say this enough. <3
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I do sorely miss those monthly updates, I always watched them live every chance I got.
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I don't know maybe give a time frame on things like the GF and Legion changes? Instead of giving a vague response of "They the next to be worked on" We can take that either two ways. One: it is in the next patch or Two: it wouldn't happen between 3 months to a year from now. I think most of us just like to know a timeframe or roadmap on what yall are actually working on instead of vague promises that we may not see years from now. Also maybe slow down on the new killers and give the killers you have more TLC? I don't think ppl be to upset if we dont get a new killer every 3 months or so. I rather see you improve the killers you have now.
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I actually blame their Public Relations (if they have one). You're always going to annoy either killers or survivors with changes, the way these changes are communicated are a joke. Also don't forget this is their job - not out of the kindness of their hearts and as a consumer of the game having bought all the DLCs if I'm not happy I'm entitled to express that opinion.
The game is horrible just now. Ask yourself why they bring out new killers every 3 months (usually buggy and not fit for purpose) instead of putting these chapters on hold and 'Fixing' the game --- £££££
Which is all the devs really care about. I used to be sympathetic to them but not anymore. They're doing a job and you're paying their wages - don't forget that
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