Why does BHVR Allow Experienced Players to Bully New Players?
Question on title. Seriously why? I thought MMR will fix this problem, new players will not face with exp players anymore but looks like it gone worse.
JRM and his team are exp survivors. But Trapper? He looks new and probably he had very bad time. Why this thing still happens? New players should have different MMR cap and they should face with each other.
Comments
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MMR would fix the problem if it is allowed to. The system favors queue times way too much over finding a good match. We saw on day 3 of the test that it's possible to do both (I'm assuming with uncapped MMR).
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- Mathieu Cote
"DBD is a beautiful waltz of chaos and you have to enjoy it for what it is. You have to get lost in the chaos."
- Also Mathieu Cote
"I think we've done a pretty good job, so far.."
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There would be no survivor juke DBD vids on YT if they didn't smurf to get low rank killers. 🤣
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Test day 3 was good actually. Last 2 days was terrible, i felt so bad for baby killers and baby survivors.
But seriously, new players should have different mmr and they should never face with exp players.
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They don't allow it, they're having a hard time preventing it. There's a difference between those two things.
Regardless, as someone else said, it's because the system prioritises speed a little too much in certain situations.
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Because there’s no way to get around this with the current shortage of killer players. Playing killer needs to be made a less miserable and stressful experience and/or there need to be incentives added for playing killer. Fix the killer:survivor ratio problem and SBMM will work fine.
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Small issue though with that. It doesn't prioritize speeds " a little".
This isn't a case of, "Oh, well, they probably shouldn't have been in this game, but they weren't too far off." This is very clearly a new player playing against someone with thousands of hours.
This means that there is a HUGE issue with player distribution. If players who have thousands of hours are sitting in 10 minute queues to play against brand new Killers, that means there's a shortage of Killers who play at said skill level.
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Because SBMM is based of stupid rules, the players you listed dont escape that often as they usually just mess about taunting the killers.
But the devs also changed the animations so survivors could t-bag and 360 smoother and better, they add safe pallets and allow rapid flashing clicking.
A better SBMM would help, one based of actual skill but then people will still derank and smurf not to mention the game isn't balanced for a well done SBMM anyway.
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Well, to be fair, if it were a case of "they probably shouldn't be in this game but they weren't too far off", we wouldn't be having this conversation at all, because there wouldn't be a problem. I know I have a tendency to use measured language, but trust me, I'm fully aware that this is a big problem.
I'm not sure it does prove that player distribution is the problem though, necessarily. We know the player distribution changes pretty dramatically at different times, in different areas, in different times of the year, etc etc, and this is a pretty persistent problem from what I've been hearing. Of course, it's hard to tell without access to BVHR's data, so either option is a possibility- maybe both at once, even.
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Money
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Here's the weird thing: this problem went away entirely on day 3 of the MMR test. At least, it did for me. Queues were instant for me on survivor at peak hours and my teammates were consistent with my experience level and skill level. I was already friends with a lot of them from my comp days. And my killer games were HARD and I had to wait in queue for a minute for two, whereas I can normally sleepwalk through killer games every night and get instant queues.
So I'm not convinced there's a population distribution issue as much as there's an implementation issue. We know there's a softcap where people are rounded down, but are they also maybe rounding people up on the low end? Then you get scenarios where the MMR between the highest and lowest players is too close together coupled with widening acceptable MMR ranges as queues get longer. It's not inconceivable that a brand new player would go against a 3k hr player in that scenario.
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Bullying is generally a problem in DBD. It doesn't just affect new players.
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In terms of priorities speed of a lobby, takes priority over anything else. Connection, location ect. If a match is balanced then that's just a bonus. The devs stated and I think they are correct on this, it would be possible to create a balanced match 100% of the time. However people would need to be willing to wait 15-30 minutes per match. That's why matches are rarely balanced.
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There should perkless kindgergarten matchmaking until certain level, where only low account level players compete each other and once they reach, lets say, 10 or 20 or whatever - they q with others.
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Who wants to sit in the queue for ten+ minutes waiting for a match that is never going to be perfect? I'd just quit if they made the queue times even longer than they already are. Playing survivor is already awful due to how long it takes to find a match during primetime hours. Killer is similar in the late morning/early afternoon. The days where the MMR was off were the best because you had instant queues constantly. If you had a bad game then you just instantly queued up and were immediately back in the action. I'm not interested in bullying people. I just want to play the game without having to wait 50 years for a match.
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I am afraid a lot of people enjoy seeing opponents as clumsy, dumb and below them. That was always a popular type of content.
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At some point a new player would end up against an experienced player, Why do you think that is never supposed to happen?
Like if there are too few Killers in a region, and a lobby has waited for too long, its gonna have priority, right?
So games like this is gonna happen, its just not supposed to be the norm.
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You see, I had the opposite experience on Day 3.
Horrifically difficult Survivor games with pretty incompetent teammates against Blight/Nurse sweatlords but my queues were LONG.
Killer games were pretty fast, but longer than normal. Maybe 30 seconds? They were also against extremely sweaty people and were extremely unfun, even when I won.
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dude holds W almost the entire match spinning in circles and it's labelled as "bullying" because the killer keeps missing and running into his own traps, lol.
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Did anyone else actually watch the end of the video?
That Trapper had everyone hooked at least once, two people on death hook, and JRM is literally sacrificed at the end (along with another person being downed before the video cuts out).
Additionally, if you argue that the survivors "threw the game", doesn't that explain why they would be facing lower MMR killers?
There are no in game comms, so the Trapper isn't hearing any of the trashtalk. Why are we assuming the killer is upset at all? Because they stepped in their trap while swinging through a pallet/trying to go around it (which they did successfully at least once) or missed a few swings? I honestly wouldn't even guess this is a new player. I've been paired with a Wraith who didn't even know how to cloak who I felt bad about being a new players, this "example" makes me feel like y'all are seeing what you want to see to continue to complain about the difficulties of playing killer.
I would also really appreciate if someone could explain to me what the survivors could do different in this video that wouldn't be bullying and would make for a better experience for the killer, especially new players. I try to make my games as fun as possible for all involved so if there is something I'm missing, I would love to know to help out in my future games!
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Of course, some people may use a smurf account to bully baby players (on both sides), but most streamers just use their main account (check devotion level @ live) and the (broken) matchmaking puts them in front of babies ...
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Could he have the red turned up any higher? Might as well have a beacon on the Killer's head.
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Wow that guy's voice and commentary is so obnoxious I couldn't make it through 2 minutes of that video. The red stain thing is ridiculous. I've looked at streamers I've played against to watch the VOD and it's silly seeing a red stain that is burning the ######### retina out of my eye
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The fact that there are whole channels running on videos like this is a problem on itself. It's not just dbd it's every game under the sun. I will never understand why it is so popular to watch some guy destroying someone that is clearly weaker and then annoye and taunt them while doing so
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There's some wide differences between region. It might not be immediately obvious from comments in the forums. But watching streamers from different areas and accounting for time of the day does bring this situation to light.
My experience matches Edgar's and I play EU, for example.
NA seems where there’s historically an overabundance of survivors. So, what Pulsar's saying makes sense for the folks over there.
Crossplay also must be factored in.
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Or maybe, hear me out
MMR is just not good and still matches new players with experienced ones?
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I can only speak from my experience, so all of this is merely anecdotal evidence. I play on EU servers and during the day, the matches are actually quite fair. Killer and survivor queues range from a few seconds to maybe 1-2 minutes.
But everything changes in the evening/night. Survivor queues are easily 5+ minutes and killer queues are instant. The matches are totally unbalanced. It's either 4k at 5 gens because a pro killer goes against a team of baby survivors or 4 man escape with 0 hooks because a baby killer got matched against a good team.
I assume it's because mmr doesn't matter if there are way more survivors than killers and instead they prioritize quickly finding a lobby, no matter how unfair the match is going to be. It's really dumb. If you make a mmr system, at the very least make it work.
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I've been wondering this for a while now and would appreciate if any long time viewers of JRM could confirm. Has he always had his profile set to private? The only reason I ask is I've been in a fair few lobbies with him as survivor (he was always queuing with someone else when I checked the stream afterwards) and both of them were set to private. The other thing is that the game doesn't provide sufficient matchmaking safeguards for new players and if you don't kill / escape, the system won't keep ranking you up no matter how many hours you have.
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Anyone better than me is a bully.
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Sadly, this. Plus, lobby dodges cause the system to sometimes poop itself inside out.
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The part about lobby dodging is very true - that's where the "backfill" issue happens which we've mentioned previously and which is something that is being worked on.
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Yeah, I've been dodging lobbies the second I run into one with everyone ready to go (generally this means a dodge happened) and the Kafka games have been a lot less common.
It's probably just passing that cursed game onto someone else - but I've made my peace with that.
Hopefully this all gets fixed once the MMR tweaks go live. The 'tighter' days of testing felt really good so clearly the system can be massively improved on.
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The killers leaving trend isn't stopping though.
The cheaters, the bad MMR, the unbreakable boons ... way too many things to make the game frustrating. (Boons were the last drop for me)
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Man if boons are that last drop for you that sucks but like boons aren't going anywhere and honestly they shouldn't be that big of a deal. 99% you hit a survivor and they go running toward the boon you now have a reason to follow them and will know where it is. As for the bullying a new player I don't think he was really bullying the killer. The killer blocked the pallet but was still afraid of getting hit. Him stepping in the trap was himself doing it. JRM wasn't even trying to get him to until he had done it 2 times. Is JRM a good looper yup. Does he look for the killer yes like all streamers do because sitting doing gens in not good streaming content. I get match to odd baby killer and if they over commit to me my team can easily bang out 5 gens. I am not trying to bully the killer I am simply playing the game and looping them. You got to learn to just roll with the punches in this game.
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It's not just backfill, while that's definitely an issue but the major issue is escapes being the deciding mmr system for survivors.
For people like this who just want to run the killer and dont do much else and will quite often die (which they do, they dont care) they go down in mmr even though there chases can win the game for the survivors.
Also I'd say the difference between time of day and region also seems to affect it, probably due to the size of the player pools at certain times
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Would it be possible to get an explanation of the Backfill Problem somewhere?? How does it work and what problems does it cause?
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Basically the game will try and match you with the closest mmr, and over time that search will expand. If someone leaves during a lobby the game will find a new survivor, however because you have been waiting so long it goes for a wider bracket of mmr (to try fill the gap quickly)
In this case a low mmr survivor could of backed out of the killers lobby and the "backfill" tried to fill it quickly and thrown a good survivor in.
Also this isnt the only reason this happen, the person in the video only does looping and just doesnt escape often, and because of the current SBMM you can have great loopers at a lower mmr.
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Ah, I see. That would be tricky.
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Oh, I can handle them, sometimes quite easily. It's just their existence forces me to play in a way I don't enjoy (and that generates a lot of salt in the chat).
And because I'm forced to play a certain way, going immediately all in, I sometimes kill a team in less than a couple of minutes. But I can't be lax because on the next game I'll play exactly the same and the game will be hard fought. I'll still kill them all, pretty often (being a player with 2.5k hours who mains Nurse helps) but it's just not fun.
My frustration isn't about losing (I don't like it but I'm more interested by fun chases and mind-games), it's about not being allowed to play in a fun way if I want to win. (And tunneling isn't fun, for either side, although sometimes the other survivors are trying to protect the victim and that's fun for me.)
I've left my last game right after downing a survivor at 5 gens. A shadow step was up, he had iron will : once again, I was looking at another tunneling game. It felt so pointless. Instead I went back to Elden Ring. I don't plan to play against before the next patch.
Cheaters are a different issue and it seems BHVR is diligently working against them.
Post edited by drsoontm on0
