Is this baneable?
This afternoon I played a game against The Blight, well, I passed the classic, 4 gens, 3 dead, etc. The problem was that I left the last survivor closed for more than 20 minutes, you could not finish the game ... my question is whether this is really baneable or not? Attached video of the game, thank you.
Comments
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Hard to tell what I am looking at. Can you give better detail about what happened? Is the killer physically blocking you from doing anything?
Here is an example of a killer holding the game hostage.
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If, as it appears in the video you show, the Blight left Steve in a corner and physically locked him with his body, he could not get out of there.
Sorry my English, I speak more Spanish than English hehe
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If he was bodyblocking where the Steve could do nothing than yes that Is bannable as he is holding the game hostage
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The killer is not holding the game hostage in this video. The others can do gens and leave (endgame ends all). Would be holding the game hostage if the killer bodyblocked 4 survivors like that, which would be holding the game hostage. In this example, there is another survivor alive besides the two? It is blurry, i cant see.
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I'm sorry but that is incorrect...that's clearly a hostage situation as those two survivors can do nothing to progress the game. It's immaterial that there are other survivors alive in the game, the killer is preventing those two survivors from taking part in the game in anyway and they can do nothing about those circumstances. So yes there, the killer is most definitely taking the game hostage which is a reportable offence under griefing.
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He's correct though that this is not holding the game hostage for the exact reason INoLuv explained.
Holding a survivor "hostage" seems more like it but there is no rule about that. I assume the example in the video would be bannable because of the griefing rule "Targeting specific users repeatedly in order to ruin their game experience" but the game can end because other survivors can do gens.
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No whilst I understand your reasoning - that killer shown in the video is holding those two survivors hostage, those survivors cannot do anything to progress the game, the killer is holding their game hostage. It is clearly a hostage situation, and a bannable offence in game.
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Why not create something in the game itself that prevents this from happening? There is nothing for the killer to indicate or know that this is "against the rules" in some way, because the game allows them to do it. And it obviously isn't exploiting some bug. Why not allow the survivor to disable collision with the killer if they touch their model for some x amount of seconds?
Having these arbitrary rules that you expect to be enforced because the game doesn't prevent these types of things from happening is bad. How is someone supposed to know this is bannable?
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How come you didnt just finish the match and open the gates to end it for them?
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I personally thought that taking the game hostage involved making sure the game couldnt physically progress at all. Like if the killer trapped all survivors in a corner, then it would count imo, but if it's only a few survivors, all generators can still be completed and they will still die to EGC, the match will eventually end as a result. My interpretation was way different tbh.
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Everyone in that match is playing the same round/game though. The survivor is hostage for sure, but the game? there is only 1 game being played. it is a hostage situation indeed, but not what is called "holding the game hostage". Lots of game have this issue and their own rules to prevent this but the meaning of "holding the game hostage" itself is not something game devs can give different definitions to at will. its not a perspective from 1 player (which you use in your reasoning) but its about the whole 1 round. Other survivors/teammates can still end it. Its just incorrect use of the term.
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I think it was confirmed by Mandy in the past that just cornering a survivor like that doesn't cound as "taking the game hostage" until you do so for several minutes.
For example: if I happen to trap a survivor in a corner like this in Lerys or in the far corner of the RPD library I gload for a few seconds, maybe spin in place, nod like a madman ... and then hit the survivor, because we both got a game to play. In order for this to count as a hostage situation you have to show deliberation and keep it going for a couple of minutes.
There were never hard and fast rules about this, but I can hardly imagine a situation were you accidentially trap someone in the corner, then have the immense urge to go to the toilet and then return to set them free. Maybe one crow can be tolerated, but as soon as two crows appear you overstepped the line.
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I can't see the video because the file is unreachable atm, but what you say makes me think that the situation is:
- 2 survivors alive that can work on gens and open the exit gates
- 2 survivors body blocked
If that is the case, this is the first time I hear that this is considered a "holding the game hostage" - the game can finish, it's not hostage at all.
Now, if the game just started (or at least, it's still in the early stage) then I might understand why this is still a bannable offence (for griefing though, more than holding the game hostage...), but what if there's only one gen to go? what if the doors are open? Where's the line?
Because I refuse to believe that bodyblocking one, two, three or even 4 survivors with the gates open is considered "holding the game hostage", so, if the line is not "actions that prevent the game to come to an end", what is it?
"a survivor cannot do anything to progress" cannot be enough, otherwise even bodyblocking a survivor in a corner in the last 30 seconds before the EGC timer reaches zero would be bannable.
...again, I was not able to see the video, so if the scenario depicted is different (e.g. NO SURVIVOR can progress the game) then everything is different of course.
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ITT: People trying to argue with the devs over the definition of a term that the devs themselves defined.
I mean I get you like arguing semantics on the internet, but the reality is that it's bannable. Arguing about what category it falls under (hostage vs griefing) is just bikeshedding.
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Hell, hatches encourage survivors to take the game hostage by starting hide and seek at 2 survivors left, Hook suicide is a thing despite we have DC penalty, and strange stubbornness about quicker hard time limit for match itself.
this game is full of extremely weird decision like that.
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The line is when the doors are open. If it's endgame with all 4 survivors alive and one of them is blocked in the corner by the killer, if the survivors don't open the door then the killer is holding the person hostage and is bannable. If the door is open, it's fine as they're going to die in a couple minutes, no different from slugging.
The killer can hold them there a little while and hope the others open a door but they can't keep them there for an extended period without it being considered bannable. The extended period usually being a couple minutes.
There is also the situation of when survivors simply hide and refuse to do anything for an extended period. It's normally around 10 minutes or so that if survivors don't touch a gen or attempt to progress the game in any fashion, it's bannable for hostage holding.
Assuming they haven't changed their stance on any of this at least.
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it's not "arguing", it's trying to understand EXACTLY what is bannable, especially because in the past a different answer was given :)
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Oh the definition is less literal and objective, good to know, thanks.
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Reading this post after BHVR said it was bannable.
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Time to fix dead ends?
To start, add a window behind the gen on the second floor of one of the houses in Badham, thank you.
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The game needs built-in ways of helping to avoid these situations. Like survivors losing collision if they get birds.
There's also the problem with survivors stealthing not working on gens for extended periods of time. If there are two solo survivors left and they're both thinking, "Well, I'll just wait for the hatch," it's hard to say that's wrong. Me, personally, I'm always the survivor in that situation who tries to work on a generator despite knowing it will get me killed, and it sucks to always be that survivor, to be the one to die so that the other survivor hiding somewhere on the map, the survivor who stopped participating, gets the hatch. I have a lot of matches where it's three survivors left, and while I'm attempting gens the other two are stealthing around on the edges of the map. And after I die, they just continue doing that, because the hatch exists and it encourages this behavior by rewarding a ridiculous number of Bloodpoints. Why would survivors bother to attempt gens when getting the hatch rewards so much more? They escape, they "win," and they often more than double their Bloodpoints doing it.
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Here's a good rule of thumb guys:
Slugging isn't bannable, because the bleedout timer is deemed a reasonable amount of time to be held in the game.
If you're doing an action that prevents a player from progressing for more than that duration (2 minutes) then you're griefing.
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You know what? Even though this MIGHT sound reasonable to a normal person like you, I GUARANTEE you that some SWF group will easily find a way to weaponize it. Thats what always happens. Like having a dedicated survivor accumulating crows so that they can dodge in and out of the killers model or something like that.
Taking the game hostage from the killers side is exceedingly rare and usually ends with the killer losing patience and hitting the survivor. The few instances were the game was legitimately taken hostage are a smaller problem then the crazy stuff dedicated survivors bullies would come up with. This much I am sure off!
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I know you're not wrong. It was just a quick example off the top of my head. I don't even see the body blocking problem that often, not from either side. I see the second one I mentioned of survivors not working on gens a lot, though. It would be nice if there were a solution to prevent body blocking. There needs to be some solution to survivors not working on the objective. Some survivors do it maliciously, but for a lot of survivors hiding to wait for the hatch just seems like the correct option. It's dumb to need to report people for something the game encourages rather than prevent it in the first place.
There are multiple active threads on the forum right now about different types of hostage taking, so obviously I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. I mentioned both types in this thread rather than @ Mandy in one of the other threads in which they haven't posted.
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Ok, back to the original post, where can I report the guy who did this? I refer to the Blight that I leave as physically locked Up Steve for more than 20 minutes.
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And he won't get punished for that, because he's not using any cheats and cheating is the only ban-able thing as support told me, when I reported a griefer that held survivors as hostages in match.
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You first need to make an in-game report of the player (this flags the match so that we can assure it did happen). Then send your evidence to Support: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/categories/6713776396180-Dead-by-Daylight
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players do get punished for this, however, it's not a permanent ban - it's a temporary ban and there is an escalation procedure.
![Qc2gVvx[1].png](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Z9BOUKP9F8KB/qc2gvvx-5b1-5d.png)
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I would call it common sense.
But I would agree that there should be some ingame solution for this. When I get hold hostage for a long amount if time, I dont care that much that I report the person who did this afterwards.
If a Survivor has Crows, they lose Collision. And this should be enough to fix it.
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It's not just "common sense" even the game rules page listed on the forum simply says "Holding the game hostage" is against the rules, but doesn't actually define what that means. I come from an era of: "If the game let's you do it, its allowed" because there is no way to know what is and is not an undocumented feature. Additionally, they even say you can't "exploit bugs" so was any killer running overcharge and call of brine a week ago banned?
Or how about the fact that survivors now scream when using pain resonance even though it's not listed in the description of the ability? Additionally they intentionally removed that effect last patch. So since they now scream it's an "undocumented feature" and using it "gains you an unfair advantage" so we should probably be reporting every killer that uses that perk now right?
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If we're banning for an exploit with a perk (which is likely not to happen any longer as if we feel something is a big enough issue to do that, we would use the kill switch), we do list it in the issues in the game rules, and an in-game news notice would also be given.
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I mean, if someone really thinks "Oh, its totally fine to keep those people here forever and rob them of a game, they can DC if they like", this person deserves to be banned.
But looking at this thread and the people who argue with a Dev that it is not holding the game hostage if this and that, no wonder, the DBD-Community is just terrible.
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I'm simply stating they need to define it. They can't just say "don't hold the game hostage" but then not tell us what that means. As far as i am aware, i would define it as. "Your actions prevent the game from ending" which if that is the case, then this wouldn't be. Obviously the devs disagree. Which is fine, but they need to then define their terms, what is defined as "Holding the game hostage"
- Can i body block a survivor during end game collapse so they die to EGC?
- How many seconds/minutes is it before it is considered "holding the game hostage" if i body block"
- What if i'm doing it to wait out a perk of theirs, like OTR, or DS? Is waiting those out ok?
- What if i'm doing it to wait out someone dying on hook? Is that ok?
- What if i'm doing it to wait out someone dying on the ground? Is that ok?
They don't consider slugging everyone and leaving them on the ground to die for 4 minutes holding the game hostage, because they eventually die and the game ends. So why is this case of body blocking considered holding the game hostage? The game can still end because the other survivors can do the gens.
I'm not saying it isn't scummy, unfair, or petty. Obviously it is. But the point is, we need to know the actual HARD lines where this is and is not ok otherwise it could lead people to do these things without realizing it is against the rules, and get banned for it.
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