Since you ASKED for it! Making Survivors MORE than just SKINS
Making survivors more than skins
In this post we'll explore some possibilities in trying to make characters more than just skins!
As we'll try to make it require the least amount of labour possible, we'll generally use themes that we're already familiar with, by looking at certain perks and teach-ables, sometimes requiring a minor adjustment!
The buffs are deliberately small as so that they won't conflict too much with the current balance-state of the game, yet adding REAL CHARACTER to each individual survivor as provided by their tiny unique buff.
Survivors
Dwight
Your teammates perform actions 2% faster when within an 8 meter range.
Meg
You recover from exhaustion 10% faster.
Claudette
Your healing-speed is increased by 5%
Jake
You can sabotage at 20% the speed without perks, items or add-ons. Your sabotage speed is increased by 15%. Your breathing in general is reduced by 10%.
Nea
The sound you produce when falling is reduced by 80%. Reduce consumption rate of item charges for allies within 8 meters by 8%. Persists for 15 seconds.
Bill
You gain 20% extra repair speed when being the last alive.
David K.
When surviving the trial, gain +3% extra blood-points for every survivor alive and not-hooked by the time you exit. Your grunts of pain are reduced by 15%
Laurie
Your action speed is increased by 2% when you're the obsession.
Ace
You have +3% luck. When opening a chest for the first time, find 2 of the same items (copy has the same add-ons as well if present).
Feng
The size of your skillchecks is increased by 20%. Vaulting speed is increased by 4%.
Quentin
You can see chests within 20 meters of range. You open exit gates 15% faster (3 seconds)
David T.
You cleanse totems 12% quicker. Totems that you've touched reveal their aura to you until they are destroyed.
Kate
Your wiggle effects are increased by 30%. Your scratch-marks disappear 0.75 seconds quicker and walking speed is increased by 8%.
Adam
You have a 15% increased chance of triggering skill-checks when healing survivors while healthy.
Jeff
Your action-speed is increased by 2% when there are no teammates within 28 meters of range.
End Note
What do you guys think?
Do you want to see survivors becoming more than just a skin?
Do you want the buffs to be minor as is the philosophy in this thread?
Do you agree with the theme for each survivor behind the buff?
Do you agree with the numbers within that theme; Do they need decreasing/increasing?
Let me know down below! If you have your own suggestions, leave them down below! Make sure to split your own version per survivor in a separate comment so that we can individually vote them if necessary.
Thank you for reading!
Related topics:
Comments
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We shouldn't alter with movement speeds imo. Nea is okay but David definitely needs something else.
Some of the survivors are great, some of them are too bad. 2% luck does almost nothing, but Detective Tapp's ability is great especially for NOED.
I don't think that survivors should be different though. The way they are good enough imo.
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sounds good but numbers need balance like Nea +5% OP
I agree that survs can push and move each others, even the killer
more perks to fight-back the killer and to compete with survs like stealing items or punch in da face
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you nailed it dude, i was thinking about the same for a while time, all killer have their own perks and power right?, them survivor should too, it really would be awesome to see and get your main character by your own play style and what passive fit better for you, i really hope this will happen some day.
+Good post and idea as always @AlwaysInAGoodShape
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Why increased Skill Checks as Adam? Is it so you have more chances of hitting Great Skill checks or something?
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Walking speed, not running.BACKSTABBER said:sounds good but numbers need balance like Nea +5% OP
I agree that survs can push and move each others, even the killer
more perks to fight-back the killer and to compete with survs like stealing items or punch in da face
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Yes, together with autodidact synergy goes well with his concept of mastery.TAG said:Why increased Skill Checks as Adam? Is it so you have more chances of hitting Great Skill checks or something?
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape
Yeah I like this idea but I also think David need something else. Maybe when injured he can move a little faster.
You should have this added to the balance section or wishlist.1 -
Yeah I like this idea but I also think David need something else. Maybe when injured he can move a little faster.
I like that version more. I'll add it as his replacement (:
You should have this added to the balance section or wishlist.
I don't perse want this exact version to be implemented. It's more about opening up the conversation and giving precise examples. It's just about starting a... general discussion (pun intended).
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it was said before and ill say again
won't happen
even if it's a 1% change, people will start focusing only playing as 1 survivor instead of others
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Really like these ideas, though David needs something else, not sure what... Maybe give Jake the sabotage thing, remove the "breathing and injured noise is reduced by 10%" and give it to David? Or give David an x% faster speed while pulling teammates off the hook or something?
When I first started playing this game, I was super confused as to why the Survivors and Killers didn't already have a "basic" skill that didn't take up a perk slot - what was the point of playing a certain character if you can just get the skill you want from them and stick it onto another survivor?0 -
@Thatbrownmonster said:
it was said before and ill say againwon't happen
even if it's a 1% change, people will start focusing only playing as 1 survivor instead of others
I'm assuming you're talking about David King?
In order for the 0.75% to be value, it has exactly to be that window where'd you'd otherwise be hit for it to be valuable. More often that not will it translate into little to no value and where it does, you deserve it.
If you run through the map, for say,100 meters, then all it's going to differ is 0.75 meter.
I think the 0.75% is more quickly overrated than underrated.
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I'd love that. Honestly.
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@FalseFroggs said:
Really like these ideas, though David needs something else, not sure what... Maybe give Jake the sabotage thing, remove the "breathing and injured noise is reduced by 10%" and give it to David? Or give David an x% faster speed while pulling teammates off the hook or something?
When I first started playing this game, I was super confused as to why the Survivors and Killers didn't already have a "basic" skill that didn't take up a perk slot - what was the point of playing a certain character if you can just get the skill you want from them and stick it onto another survivor?Upon frequent feedback surrounding his ms buff, I changed his identity to farming. Escaping grants him a total increase in BP.
What do you guys think?
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Upon frequent feedback surrounding his ms buff, I changed his identity to farming. Escaping grants him a total increase in BP.What do you guys think?
Like that a lot more! Anything that would help teammates want to stay in the game and try to save another teammate is a-ok by me
It also gives the Killer a chance to get other kills if the survivor doesn't succeed.1 -
This idea doesn't work after the games been out so long.
There will always be something more beneficial and players will gravitate towards that, therefore you'll just see that character in most matches and will only make the game more boring.
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Unbalanced AF and a lot of the suggestions are just perks or better versions of perks we already have.3
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I guess their low numbers aren't broken and aren't meta changing.
But i don't quite understand why Jeff gets his bonus when he's alone (is it lore or something?)0 -
@Zagrid said:
Unbalanced AF and a lot of the suggestions are just perks or better versions of perks we already have.If you refer to balance between survivors and killers;
We do not discuss appropriate killer buffs here. We only care about the buffs competing with each other.0 -
@Milo said:
I guess their low numbers aren't broken and aren't meta changing.
But i don't quite understand why Jeff gets his bonus when he's alone (is it lore or something?)Yes, he's the quite type of guy (:
https://deadbydaylight.gamepedia.com/Jeffrey_"Jeff"_Johansen
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Nea should get +10% faster movement speed while crouching. so with the urban it would be 110%
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@Ihatelife said:
Nea should get +10% faster movement speed while crouching. so with the urban it would be 110%You do know that would make her walking even more obsolete than it is now with Urban alone?
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@Ihatelife said:
Nea should get +10% faster movement speed while crouching. so with the urban it would be 110%I was afraid that it could cause complains regarding the effectiveness people can safely circle around objects. Which is why I use the increase in walking-speed, allowing killers more often the ability to see someone sneaking away. I'll keep an eye on people's response to your comment.
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@Milo said:
@Ihatelife said:
Nea should get +10% faster movement speed while crouching. so with the urban it would be 110%You do know that would make her walking even more obsolete than it is now with Urban alone?
Nea is the love.
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Feng Mins is awful to be honest. This is Not Happening increases skill check sizes by 30% and even that is barely noticeable. I think she should vault windows faster by 10% or so. That wouldn't be horrible. Maybe on top of that, when failing a generator skillcheck, there is a 25% chance there'd be no loud noise notification?
Quentins is also kinda bad, but I wouldn't mind it if he got a garunteed yellow medkit when searching for the first time or something like that.
As for Ace, 2% luck is really bad, but I don't really have any ideas for him since his whole thing is luck.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@Ihatelife said:
Nea should get +10% faster movement speed while crouching. so with the urban it would be 110%I was afraid that it could cause complains regarding the effectiveness people can safely circle around objects. Which is why I use the increase in walking-speed, allowing killers more often the ability to see someone sneaking away. I'll keep an eye on people's response to your comment.
I know, but faster movement speed while crouching fits perfectly for her.
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Says who? As long as they keep up with cosmetics it gives me reason to play other survivors. I main Adam because of his cosmetics.Thatbrownmonster said:it was said before and ill say again
won't happen
even if it's a 1% change, people will start focusing only playing as 1 survivor instead of others
So even if another survivor has a better default abiltiy than Adam it won’t matter because of the fact that I enjoy his cosmetics.0 -
If you're going to add passives, making them more efficient and better them perks is not the right way to do it.
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@makayla said:
Feng Mins is awful to be honest. This is Not Happening increases skill check sizes by 30% and even that is barely noticeable. I think she should vault windows faster by 10% or so. That wouldn't be horrible. Maybe on top of that, when failing a generator skillcheck, there is a 25% chance there'd be no loud noise notification?Increased it from 10 to 30%. Even though This is not happening isn't ran very often, because of its awkward condition, I think having it as a base ability might just be enough to make it work.
Quentins is also kinda bad, but I wouldn't mind it if he got a garunteed yellow medkit when searching for the first time or something like that.
I deliberately keep the aura reading low to match the Pharmacy concept and emergency. I will add something on top of it.
As for Ace, 2% luck is really bad, but I don't really have any ideas for him since his whole thing is luck.
Changed it. I tried a risky one this time around.
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I would love survivors having passive abilities but people dont like tier lists on survivors
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@Cake1100 said:
If you're going to add passives, making them more efficient and better them perks is not the right way to do it.Which passive do you consider stronger than a normal perk?
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@makayla said:
Feng Mins is awful to be honest. This is Not Happening increases skill check sizes by 30% and even that is barely noticeable. I think she should vault windows faster by 10% or so. That wouldn't be horrible. Maybe on top of that, when failing a generator skillcheck, there is a 25% chance there'd be no loud noise notification?Increased it from 10 to 30%. Even though This is not happening isn't ran very often, because of its awkward condition, I think having it as a base ability might just be enough to make it work.
Quentins is also kinda bad, but I wouldn't mind it if he got a garunteed yellow medkit when searching for the first time or something like that.
I deliberately keep the aura reading low to match the Pharmacy concept and emergency. I will add something on top of it.
As for Ace, 2% luck is really bad, but I don't really have any ideas for him since his whole thing is luck.
Changed it. I tried a risky one this time around.
I appreciate buffing the numbers for Feng but its still really, really bad. I mean, there is barely any difference with This is Not Happening as it is. Having a built-in This is Not Happening just...sucks. Compared to the other survivor's passives I think her's is the worst. I think it would be fair to make her vault things faster instead.
Aces and Quentins are a LOT better now though, I think they're really nice. I like the idea of passives for survivors but like @Theluckyboi said, everyones would have to be completely equal in how good they are because tier lists for survivors would suck.0 -
I love this, though some of the numbers might need to be tweaked. I've thought that the survivors needed differences since day one.
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I appreciate buffing the numbers for Feng but its still really, really bad. I mean, there is barely any difference with This is Not Happening as it is. Having a built-in This is Not Happening just...sucks. Compared to the other survivor's passives I think her's is the worst. I think it would be fair to make her vault things faster instead.
Aces and Quentins are a LOT better now though, I think they're really nice. I like the idea of passives for survivors but like @Theluckyboi said, everyones would have to be completely equal in how good they are because tier lists for survivors would suck.Do realise:
Hitting a great skillchecks gives you +2% instantly. If you hit a great skill-check on even 1 generator that you otherwise wouldn't have hit, then it would already be the same as having a 2% increased generator time like the rest of the characters. For every great skillcheck you git extra, you increase that bonus by a 100%.For every Hex: Ruin skill-check you hit as a result, you save yourself 7 seconds. It's easy to underrate this one (:
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Sounds neat. Normally when people suggest this they propose huge boosts that would horribly through off balance, but I like how these changes are very subtle. Two things I would change though:
1. Feng's boost should be given to a base game survivor. Easier skill checks would naturally appeal to someone who's new to the game, not someone who has already gone out and bought DLCs. The Spark of Madness chapter is a paid DLC on PC.
2. Kate's bonus should probably be replaced. 5% faster wiggle time may not seem like much, but with the hook distribution it can make the difference between a hook and a wiggle quite a few times. I'm sure anyone who's played a good amount of survivor has had a bunch of instances where they 99% wiggled and then get hooked. Generally speaking, it's very hard to touch wiggle speed without creating loads of deadzones, especially if you start mixing in sabotaging and bodyblocking.Something else to keep in mind for Jeff is that this would double as a built in bond, albeit a weaker one. Whenever your interaction speeds are increased, your progress bar is shown in yellow. You could use this to quickly scan the area for other survivors by tapping a totem, generator, or even just self caring. If the bar is yellow, you know there's nobody nearby. If it's white, that means there's a survivor close (should be pretty easy to figure out where they are at that point, likely at a generator within range). It's a small detail, but still something that could be taken advantage of.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@makaylaI appreciate buffing the numbers for Feng but its still really, really bad. I mean, there is barely any difference with This is Not Happening as it is. Having a built-in This is Not Happening just...sucks. Compared to the other survivor's passives I think her's is the worst. I think it would be fair to make her vault things faster instead.
Aces and Quentins are a LOT better now though, I think they're really nice. I like the idea of passives for survivors but like @Theluckyboi said, everyones would have to be completely equal in how good they are because tier lists for survivors would suck.Do realise:
Hitting a great skillchecks gives you +2% instantly. If you hit a great skill-check on even 1 generator that you otherwise wouldn't have hit, then it would already be the same as having a 2% increased generator time like the rest of the characters. For every great skillcheck you git extra, you increase that bonus by a 100%.For every Hex: Ruin skill-check you hit as a result, you save yourself 7 seconds. It's easy to underrate this one (:
I guess that's fair. I'm already good at hitting great skill-checks and I main Feng Min so for me personally it feels like nothing huge but I see where you're coming from with that.
I actually went in a KYF with my friend to see the skill-check and there is a difference so I was wrong, sorry. I haven't used the perk in so long because it feels like such a waste of a slot.1 -
- Feng's boost should be given to a base game survivor. Easier skill checks would naturally appeal to someone who's new to the game, not someone who has already gone out and bought DLCs. The Spark of Madness chapter is a paid DLC on PC.
I see where you're coming from. Feng indeed (looking at perks like Technician) do appear to be targeted towards noobs and it's not optimal to have her being paid on PC.
Although, as subtle as things can be, as a possible micro increase of Feng Min sales, I think it's something we can safely get away with.- Kate's bonus should probably be replaced. 5% faster wiggle time may not seem like much, but with the hook distribution it can make the difference between a hook and a wiggle quite a few times. I'm sure anyone who's played a good amount of survivor has had a bunch of instances where they 99% wiggled and then get hooked. Generally speaking, it's very hard to touch wiggle speed without creating loads of deadzones, especially if you start mixing in sabotaging and bodyblocking.
Yep, this always is a scary one. That wild and resisting persona fits her very well. Removed her 5% for an alternative.
Something else to keep in mind for Jeff is that this would double as a built in bond, albeit a weaker one.
A mind for details. I hope their code is structured well enough that they have a reference to what counts as "normal speed", which should be changed conditionally for Jeff alone. If their code is organised, this should be simple.
Since you picked up on that, you might have a mind too for what the effects are for having Bill now have a unique ability not attainable on console, where previously his perks were. I don't yet have a proper answer to that.
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Idk how I feel about that. Could be bad if you are not using Autodidact and/or if there are Killer perks in play that can muck around with Skill Checks.AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Yes, together with autodidact synergy goes well with his concept of mastery.TAG said:Why increased Skill Checks as Adam? Is it so you have more chances of hitting Great Skill checks or something?
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@TAG said:
Idk how I feel about that. Could be bad if you are not using Autodidact and/or if there are Killer perks in play that can muck around with Skill Checks.Do you have an alternative? I personally find his 3 perks hard to use when trying to come up with a suitable buff.
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Yeah I dont see this working... survivors without perks already can go through trials.. if these types of abilities come into play it'll be super easy mode0
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We Already have some OP killers and making Survivors take the same Route would break the game .. there are Already abilities that distingish each survivor from another and these are called "Already Existing Perks" .. the fact that you are able to have them as teachables is a good thing .. But To force a sense of personality maybe there Could be a Hardcore mode added to the game wherein you can only play with each character's personal perks only .. and so does the killer .. with more given Progressive objectives .
That'd be fun .
I like the current state of the game right now .. based on your added built in abilities that'd ruin the overall experience imagine .. how terrible it'd be to quickly get out of the dream world vs a Freddy .. Clauddete with 5 % healing speed + 33% from Botany knowledge .
Adam with increased skillchecks trigger chances , would be so hard to put him in the dream world .. it'd be so annoying and make killers unplayable .
Meg with 10 % exhustion recovery and vigil oh yea .. just great .. the loops would be infinite and frustrating for killers . Some maps still have bad spots for killers . This'll make things worse0 -
I'm not a big fan of giving survivors their own specific abilities. In the end, one ability is stronger than the other and therefore one survivor would be played more often than the others.
Sure, we already have a lot of Claudettes at the moment but still a lot of the other survs are getting played. I'm afraid that would change and lobbys would look more monotonous.
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We are not discussing Survivor-killer balance here. This is not an isolated thread. The over-all balance of the game is irrelevant to this discussion. It wouldn't even have mattered if killers had 1000% movement-speed. We are exclusively discussing the ideas mentioned in the end note.
Faction balance is relative.
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@NoShinyPony said:
I'm not a big fan of giving survivors their own specific abilities. In the end, one ability is stronger than the other and therefore one survivor would be played more often than the others.One ability is not always stronger. They offer different routes to milking their possible value. How survivors utilise this value and how killers can lower it is a point of opportunity for both sides.
Sure, we already have a lot of Claudettes at the moment but still a lot of the other survs are getting played. I'm afraid that would change and lobbys would look more monotonous.
There could actually be less of Claudettes indeed, dependent on the buffs, but there is little evidence that minuscule buffs would alter their choice in any circumstance.
Because there is purpose to their buffs. (Dwight when teaming, Jake for sabo builds where saboteur isn't ran, Megs for Exhaustion builds, Feng when they keep failing Ruin and David Tapp when you become irritated with NOED.)
Because your choice is optimal in different play-styles, who you pick also changes (if you pick survivors for this reason, instead of their skin/visibility)
Characters like Quentin and Tapp in the examples are also more effective when there's a 1 of in your team, further promoting character pick diversity. (Dwights are an exception because they synergise. That might actually become a new meme.)
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@TAG said:
Idk how I feel about that. Could be bad if you are not using Autodidact and/or if there are Killer perks in play that can muck around with Skill Checks.Do you have an alternative? I personally find his 3 perks hard to use when trying to come up with a suitable buff.
What about slowing down the needle slightly for Skill Checks? "Your Skill Checks are X% slower." or something.
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What about slowing down the needle slightly for Skill Checks? "Your Skill Checks are X% slower." or something.
I think it would be too close to the Feng Min example, as they'd achieve the same.
I'll have to look at Adams wiki to see if there's any inspiration in his background story.0 -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape
I think another thing that can add which really wouldn’t mess up the game balance is that each survivor gains an advantage when they are using two perks for instance
Claudette
botany knowledge + empathy = additional 5% healing speed
Jake
sabo + calm spirit = 25% chance of nothing making a notification when missing a skill check on hook or 5% hook speed
Adam
autodidact + diversion = Increase the chance of skill checks by 10% when healing.
You all get the memo. And then killers can have the same thing added. This would not work on teachables.1 -
@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
Making survivors more than skins
In this post we'll explore some possibilities in trying to make characters more than just skins!
As we'll try to make it require the least amount of labour possible, we'll generally use themes that we're already familiar with, by looking at certain perks and teach-ables, sometimes requiring a minor adjustment!The buffs are deliberately small as so that they won't conflict too much with the current balance-state of the game, yet adding REAL CHARACTER to each individual survivor as provided by their tiny unique buff.
Survivors
Dwight
Your teammates perform actions 2% faster when within an 8 meter range.
Meg
You recover from exhaustion 10% faster.
Claudette
Your healing-speed is increased by 5%
Jake
You can sabotage at 20% the speed without perks, items or add-ons. Your breathing in general is reduced by 10%.
Nea
The stun you receive when falling is halved. Your walking speed is increased by 5%.
Bill
You gain 20% extra repair speed when being the last alive.
David K.
When surviving the trial, gain +3% extra blood-points for every survivor alive and not-hooked by the time you exit. Your grunts of pain are reduced by 10%
Laurie
Your action speed is increased by 2% when you're the obsession.
Ace
You have +3% luck. When opening a chest for the first time, find 2 of the same items (with add-ons possibly).
Feng
The size of your skillchecks is increased by 30%
Quentin
You can see chests within 20 meters of range. You open exit gates 15% faster (3 seconds)
David T.
You cleanse totems 12% quicker. Totems that you've touched reveal their aura to you until they are destroyed.
Kate
Your wiggle effects are increased by 50%. Your scratch-marks disappear 0.75 seconds quicker.
Adam
You have a 15% increased chance of triggering skill-checks when healing survivors while healthy.
Jeff
Your action-speed is increased by 2% when there are no teammates within 28 meters of range.
End Note
What do you guys think?
Do you want to see survivors becoming more than just a skin?
Do you want the buffs to be minor as is the philosophy in this thread?
Do you agree with the theme for each survivor behind the buff?
Do you agree with the numbers within that theme; Do they need decreasing/increasing?Let me know down below! If you have your own suggestions, leave them down below! Make sure to split your own version per survivor in a separate comment so that we can individually vote them if necessary.
Thank you for reading!
*Quentin should recover from exhaustion since he's vigil perk
*Meg Her sprint perks cooldown should decrease
*Laurie increases your speed in a 2% Increases your chance to be the obsession.
*Nea your crouch speed is increase in 20%
Nice post thought! agree with your idea, survivor should be more than skins.3 -
I really like these ideas. Not too much that people would be upset about a survivor buff, but a nice way to make the survivors feel a little more individual.
Just one question, does feng Min's passive affect the good skill checks size or also the great skill checks size? Cause if it would also increase the great skill check size than people would just run Feng Min to counter Hex: Ruin, which would be too much in my opinion.2 -
Maybe if that was their unique passive perk and 3 other perks were available. Would make me want to switch now and then.1
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One thing I believe needs a fix is claudette, most people play her because she vanishes easily. I think a simple brightening of her existing outfits could help fix that issue. Most people only play her because of that fact. I will probably get bad remarks on this from those claudette players.
I do agree on set skills for each character though.1
