http://dbd.game/killswitch
Thanks to the new afk system, slugging in 2v1 is stronger than ever
Comments
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My comment above was meant to quote this
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The afk system is too punishing, you can get crows by crouching in terror radius while killer patrols gen or by looking for flashlight/sabo. Also low profile and left behind are even worse now, actually all stealth builds are obsolete now.
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Are you not able to pick them up or do a gen? killer can't guard both at once
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As someone who plays both sides and has zero tolerance for people who hide and wait for teammates to die, I wanted something to be done to locate the hiding player. As killer, if I hook the second to last survivor and do a loop of the map and no one comes to save them, I will stand by the hook until they can unhook and, very often, they lead me to the coward. Unfortunately, I've never had a killer do this for me. Many don't seem to piece together what dynamics are going on on the other side.
When I play surv, I never wait for bleedout for hatch. I care more about being on a team and doing things to help teammates. We both deserve a chance to leave. But now, if I'm creeping my way back to a slugged survivor, I get crows. I have to stop and waste time touching a gen just to keep them at bay, which often broadcasts my location to the killer. I'm seeing people with crows when I play killer and there's a 3gen, and I know they don't deserve them, they just couldn't do much.
I don't know how they thought this would be good. The punishing of survivors is so baffling to me, since you need four times the amount of people who want to play that role, yet they make it harder and harder to do anything. And now when I switch to killer I just feel bad for the survivors because I know how rough it's gotten. The only people that ever seem to manage okay no matter what are the coordinated teams.
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Short answer: no.
Longer answer:
So, as the slug, you can't do anything other than crawl. And crawling in a direction is going to at least make the killer think that's where your teammate is, either you're ratting them out or going for help. So they can basically just lay there.
So let's say the stars align, and the only survivor standing has perfect knowledge if where the killer is at all times. The optimal scenario.
If the killer camps the slug, you can hop on a gen and avoid crows. When you finish that gen, you've lit a giant beacon and loudly announced your location. And since gens take about 90 seconds, and bleeding out is 4 minutes... Congratulations, you now have to run the killer in chase for at least 2 minutes. Hatch isn't up, and at best you have to open the door. At worst, you still have gens to do. So you're dead.
If the killer goes to patrol gens, you could go for the rescue. But you're really just prolonging the inevitable. You can't really get gens done (maybe, if the last gen is almost done already, but the killer is patrolling gens and is probably watching it until it hits zero), and the next time one of you gets into chase, you're gonna get slugged again for the 4k and you're back in the same spot. Or, the killer catches you together and the game is just over.
So your options are basically:
- Do a gen, revealing your location, leading to death.
- Go for rescue, prolonging the inevitable. Or dying, depending on luck.
- Hide, hopefully avoid crows, and wait for hatch to spawn. (This is the only realistic hope to escape in most situations)
And now with the afk crows system, the third option, the only one with any chance of working, is also basically just "reveal your location and still die".
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It’s interesting, because earlier you said that players who care about fairness are “too invested,” and now it sounds like you’re saying it’s pointless to expect fairness at all. That’s a pretty big shift from “you care too much” to “caring doesn’t matter.”
But what I'm trying to say is that people care because they’re invested, through time, money, and effort. They wouldn’t be playing the game if they didn’t care about the game. Suggesting they shouldn’t care just because no game is perfectly balanced kind of misses the point. Nobody’s asking for perfection, only improvements. Especially in a live-service game that’s constantly evolving.
If this were a five-year-old, single-player game that hadn’t been touched in years, I could see the desire for improvement as something kind of strange and pointless. But DBD is not that game. It's is a game where even base-kit features and long-requested changes continue to shift. Licenses people once thought were impossible, like Chucky,are now part of the game. Clearly, change is possible.
Honestly, I’m not entirely sure how we got here in this discussion. I’ve been trying to understand your points, but it’s coming across as saying people are wrong for caring about things you personally don’t think should matter. And while you’re absolutely entitled to your opinion, dismissing others for wanint improvements, therefore having a different opinion, comes off as a bit one-sided as if your stance is fact while theirs is just emotion. Or that asking for improvements is unreasonable in itself.
I’m not saying that’s your intention, and I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but that’s how the tone of your replies has came across. Just trying to see if we can possibly find some common ground here or a resolution of some kind.
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I agree, but sometimes being a coward is the smart move. I will die with dignity if the circumstances aren't optimal for a rescue, and I prefer the other to have a chance. I remember a recent Trial (pre-patch) on Backwater Swamp vs The Pig, two left, and Meg was hooked. The Pig was camping in a bush; I could see her from Meg's and Jill's perspectives. Jill was injured and crying; there was no way she could rescue successfully, so she left the area. The Pig facilitated a self-unhook, and Meg ran right to Jill, and both were killed. I wish Survivors considered the circumstances before they decide to betray. Jill did nothing wrong and was a great teammate. I hate playing with Survivors who are super eager to escape at any cost or would rather see everyone die than for one escape.
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Wow that Pig player is pretty dishonorable for that. I guess you also have to hope your killer isn't a dick. I would have went for the unhook myself, just to wrap things up, but that's me. I'd rather hurry up and die than wander around the map waiting for a hatch I likely won't get to in time anyway.
But this is why I liked the option to die on the hook. Fast bleedout would also be great, and hopefully it happens cause every survivor seems to want it. It's crazy you can't sacrifice yourself for your team in any way now. Even when I run up to the killer in hopes they'll kill me and give my teammate a chance, they usually just slug me.
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Well, right now the crow system is disabled when the hatch spawns or EGC starts… they should extend this for when there's only one survivor standing, simple as that.
I mean, other tweaks to the crow system will be necessary, as they sometimes get people who aren't afk nor trying to hold the game hostage, but fixing the slug for the 4K scenario is the most simple part.
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Why? The end of the game is hatch or gates. Why would a Surv go unhook the 2nd to last just for you to then target both of them and get a 4k when the endgame the Devs created is either hatch or gates? The issue isn't the players, it's the mechanics the Devs have created and the absolute atrocious end game dilemma the game has put players in.
It's great that you'll go pick up the slugged Surv or get them off hook just to farm some more points before the Killer kills both of you, but you can't expect everyone to do that, especially when the goal of this game for Survs is to…. survive, not to mention, again, that the endgame for matches is hatch or gates.
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The situation also matters. I expect people to engage with the game. It often comes down to me and one other person and I'm working on gens, being chased, cleansings hexes, and doing whatever else I can. Meanwhile, their HUD is totally inactive and, once I get finally downed, I immediately see their aura creeping around the basement. They've checked out long before I was downed. Instead of hiding, they could have been doing another gen and we might have had a shot. It's not behavior I like to reward. I spectate on a lot of people like this too. They're now just coming out long enough to touch a gen and avoid crows, then going back to hiding. Meanwhile, their teammate is actually playing the game.
And like I said, if I'm the killer, I'm not camping the hook, I'm roaming around. The other person has plenty of time to get to the hooked player and get somehwere to heal and re-engage with trying to do gens.
But I also know I'm not the average killer.
I agree the mechanics are an issue, but so are players. Killers choose to camp hooks and slugs, survivors chose to hide in the basement.
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The chance you have to even escape is astronomically low at anything less than 3 survivors left, even at 3 survivors it is extremely low. They were entirely correct to stop interacting with the game and hiding to try to escape. 1 person is never going to be able to hold chase for the entire 2 minutes needed to finish just one gen + opening exist gates. Even swapping who does chase, the chances you make it out is so low you are better off not even trying. Is this solution fixable? Extremely, but does BHVR seem to care? Not at all.
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Like I said. It isn't that deep for everyone.
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"do a gen" will give crows unless you're finishing gens. And "do a gen" in a 2v1 with 3 gens remaining isnt something thats beneficial to survival. The goal of survivors is to survive, and if 2 survivors are dead and 1 is slugged, picking them up gives info to the killer to your position, which is detrimental to survival and depending on the killer(who, are almost always playing Blight or Wesker), basically gives them a free 4k. Doing a gen also gives them info and there are too many gens to finish.
So while in theory, yes, in practice it would be throwing away my escape. I might aswell run into the killer and let them kill me. In fact, they might aswell just end the game the moment the killer downs the 3rd survivor.
That is clearly not the design, because hatch exists. So while it is an ability, it is not a possibility.1 -
Those afk and, most especially, self-unhook changes did a better job at making the game worse for normal players than for griefing ones.
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3 survivors is definitely doable assuming 2 gens are gone and a 3rd one is either close to being gone or gone before the 1st survivor dies. The problem is 3 survivors and 4 gens remaining. But that can be fixed with a few tweaks to early game tunnelling (simplest solution: give the survivor who is hooked first, and only the first hooked survivor, basekit DS with no time limit, and have that basekit DS disappear once someone else is hooked, egc starts or if they do a conspicious action).
The 2v1 with gens remaining requires massive changes.-1 -
And yet, here you still are, claiming it isnt that deep for everyone, while clearly being more than deep enough for you to have a forum account and keep replying after you've given the same conclusion 5 times already. Clearly its deeper than you make it appear to be, otherwise you would have stopped replying 2 days ago.
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Can you lock this thread? 9.0.1 basically solved 99% of the issues that the new AFK system added in the 2v1 and I trust the devs that the anti-slug measures added in upcoming updates will solve the pretty much all other issues that slugging in the 2v1 currently causes.
Its otherwise only going to be clutter on the discussion page.-1
